I attended Catholic Mass for the 1st time.

[Prodigal_Son1]

I wondered what they thought when I didnt participate.

Don’t worry about it. Most everyone is focused on the Mass and the communion. If anyone thought anything, which they shouldn’t but we know human nature, it was probably that you were a visitor of another faith or that you needed to go to confession first.

 

[Dokimas]

I’ve told you once before, I am not responding to points or issues posted within a quote. While it might be easier on you, it’s a task to respond to someone who uses that fashion.

I’m not trying to be short about this, but I just got off a 97 hour shift this morning and am extremely tired, too tired to do all the copying and pasting with the html added so I can respond to each issue, without missing anything.

You can copy and paste like this … and highlight mine if you want.

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son1
I know Tradition is weighed against scriptures. Now who is the authority to say which is correct and incorrect Traditions, since interpretation are different.

You say I’m being silly? You are avoiding a direct question by accusing me of being silly. Look carefully. I did not avoid the question. I said OF COURSE the Holy Spirit does NOT bring different interpretation. Look and you’ll see. There are plenty of Protestant denominations, with slight to different doctrines/teachings, all based on someone’s private interpretation and ALL claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit. Now, where does scriptures tell us how to know who is really received the correct interpretation, with true guidance from the Holy Spirit? In John 21, Peter has Jesus about John. In so many words, Jesus told Peter to mind his own business. Maybe that’s good advise here to all of us.

You don’t have to answer as it appears you only are bringing up Catholic objections to derail a thread. Does it bother you that much that someone went to a Catholic Church to see if a lot of objections are true or not? (Did you not see my initial response? I’ve been several times to C Masses and been able to worship God through what was said or read with those there worshiping Jesus the Savior. I guess it’s really me that should be rolling my eyes at you.)

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You can copy and paste like this … and highlight mine if you want.

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son1
I know Tradition is weighed against scriptures. Now who is the authority to say which is correct and incorrect Traditions, since interpretation are different.

You say I’m being silly? You are avoiding a direct question by accusing me of being silly. Look carefully. I did not avoid the question. I said OF COURSE the Holy Spirit does NOT bring different interpretation. Look and you’ll see. **There are plenty of Protestant denominations, with slight to different doctrines/teachings, all based on someone’s private interpretation and ALL claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit. Now, where does scriptures tell us how to know who is really received the correct interpretation, with true guidance from the Holy Spirit? **In John 21, Peter has Jesus about John. In so many words, Jesus told Peter to mind his own business. Maybe that’s good advise here to all of us.

You don’t have to answer as it appears you only are bringing up Catholic objections to derail a thread. Does it bother you that much that someone went to a Catholic Church to see if a lot of objections are true or not? (Did you not see my initial response? I’ve been several times to C Masses and been able to worship God through what was said or read with those there worshiping Jesus the Savior. I guess it’s really me that should be rolling my eyes at you.)

I’ve bolded the question you’re not responding too…

 

[Carlan]

I’ve told you once before, I am not responding to points or issues posted within a quote. While it might be easier on you, it’s a task to respond to someone who uses that fashion.

I’m not trying to be short about this, but I just got off a 97 hour shift this morning and am extremely tired, too tired to do all the copying and pasting with the html added so I can respond to each issue, without missing anything.

I really feel it’s important to discuss the Holy Spirit and the guidance given, being there are multiple interpretations, different from one another, evident by the different denominations. To continue repeating the same thing and not addressing the problem presented is puzzling to me. We both agree then, that the Holy Spirit does not give multiple interpretations, but there are different interpretations professed by people, all claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit. That means some are following teachings not received of the Holy Spirit. How is anyone to know which is right and which is wrong?

G’ heavens Prodical !!!
You sound dead on your feet, go get some sleep, my good man, and God bless you , Carlan

 

[Dokimas]

I’ve bolded the question you’re not responding too…

I said we should mind our own business. It’s God’s Word and His Spirit that teaches. He is responsible to teach, we are responsible for ourselves to listen and learn. We know NO on will know perfectly until Heaven because we trust the Holy Spirit to have correctly inspired Paul in 1 Corinthians 13. We also know that when we think we know anything we don’t really know as we whould know - also from Paul in 1 Corinthians 8:2.

Now do you want to respond to my comments to you?

 

[CMatt25]

There are so many, many Catholics in this country that the odds say many of them will be lousy, cafeteria variety Catholics who are nominal or use Mass as a weekly ritual event, something they were raised with, rather than something deep and meaningful.

And you know and can judge what is in their hearts exactly how?

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Well I’m Catholic and know what to do and I have attended many a Catholic Church in my day in different areas and I know what you are saying. At 2 local parishes where I attend now people come and go pretty much as you said. One parish does have coffee and doughnuts after @ least one of their Masses. It does have a sign on the doors saying “quiet please” although those already knowing ea other do seem to chatter some before Mass. I did have a nice gentleman though come up the side aisle from behind me and offer me the Sign of Peace on Christmas Eve when I attended there due to a better schedule there for me for Christmas Eve Masses. The folks in front of me didn’t even turn around during the Sign of Peace.

At the other parish folks chat away inside before Mass. The priests will walk among the faithful and chat along with them before Mass. When I first experienced this it kinda bothered me because it was not what I was used to. However I’ve grown to like this mingling. And ironically it is actually the more formal of the two. The EMHC wear robes. The altar flooring marble and so forth. Although I have been known to offer the sign of peace to people and will get a “look”. I figure they just don’t want my germs. But even there afterwards it is pretty much off to the races afterwards.

As far as why the attendance may not be as large as you might have expected, there are a lot of Catholics turned off nowadays by the direction the Church is going and I doubt if the scandals helped any. Perhaps too because Catholics are told they must attend or else have committed mortal sin, there could be some there only out of fear and are there only because they are told they must be.

Everyone said the blessing thing to the people all around them and shook hands but one guy wouldnt shake hands I thought he was germaphobic or something but the other people were trying to shake his hand but he just said “Blessings to you” but cept his hands at his sides.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

G’ heavens Prodical !!!
You sound dead on your feet, go get some sleep, my good man, and God bless you , Carlan

Normally, we are able to get some rest at the station, but the past four days were extremely busy, with a lot of late night calls to respond too and long distance transfers between facilities. I’m having trouble remembering all the patients we responded too. I can only remember the bad calls at this time.

At least I got off in time to attend Mass this morning, but I didn’t have time to shower and change into street clothes.

I need to stay up until normal bedtime, so I don’t mess up my internal clock.

 

[CMatt25]

Normally, we are able to get some rest at the station, but the past four days were extremely busy, with a lot of late night calls to respond too and long distance transfers between facilities. I’m having trouble remembering all the patients we responded too. I can only remember the bad calls at this time.

At least I got off in time to attend Mass this morning, but I didn’t have time to shower and change into street clothes.

I need to stay up until normal bedtime, so I don’t mess up my internal clock.

That’s ok Prod. Christ didn’t care how you showed up just that you did. It’s what is inside the heart that matters to Christ not the outside.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I liken the difference between protestant and catholic fellowship to the cultural differences between Canadians and Americans.Americans are more outgoing and Canadians more reticent,but that does not reflect on either group poorly and nor should it reflect poorly on Catholics and non-Catholic Christians.

NO NO Please I was not being critical, It was a lovely service with much that I admired. I was only discussing things that I noticed were different than what I am accustomed to or thing I didnt understand.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I said we should mind our own business. It’s God’s Word and His Spirit that teaches. He is responsible to teach, we are responsible for ourselves to listen and learn. We know NO on will know perfectly until Heaven because we trust the Holy Spirit to have correctly inspired Paul in 1 Corinthians 13. We also know that when we think we know anything we don’t really know as we whould know - also from Paul in 1 Corinthians 8:2.

Now do you want to respond to my comments to you?

So then His Spirit teaches different truths through different interpretations?

We should be responsible for ourselves and listen and learn? Which teacher do we listen and learn from when there’s different interpretations offered? Who has the correct traditions that Paul told us to hold too, whether by word or epistle?

Seems scriptures don’t tell us to mind our own business, in my opinion. We are to discern spirits, teachers, doctrines, etc. We are understand that scriptures are hard to understand, by the unlearned and unstable and they are the unwise that leads people the wrong way, as Peter says, to their own destruction.

It’s simple for Catholics to accept Christ at His word concerning His Church. Trusting in His Church is trusting in Him.

No Protestant wants to admit it, but private interpretation is not scriptural, just as the Bible is the only authority is not scriptural. According to most Protestants, if it’s not the the Bible it’s not scriptural and it’s a man made tradition. But, that only seems to pertain to Catholic beliefs, that they don’t agree with the interpretation on.

It’s really simple to figure out. We both believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. Why did God inspire it be written that the Church of the living God is the pillar and ground of truth instead of scriptures? Why did God inspire it be written that the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known through the Church instead of scriptures? Why did Christ tell us to take disputes to the Church instead of scriptures?

The authority of the Church is there in scriptures.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

But it’s ok to add that the Bible is the ONLY authority, or that everyone should interpret scriptures for themselves, even if they receive different interpretations?

The explanation given was satisfactory, according to scriptures PLUS traditions.

I wasnt wanting to start a debate or another thread where we bash each others methods of worship. I was just hoping to learn about the Mass with the utmost respect.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I wasnt wanting to start a debate or another thread where we bash each others methods of worship. I was just hoping to learn about the Mass with the utmost respect.

I was just thinking how this thread turned, before you posted your post, and apologize for my part in it. I’m glad you at least went to see for yourself, that we worship Jesus, the very same Jesus that Protestants worship, with sincere reverance for all that He did for ALL of us.

Whether you’ve seen it before or not, I meet my obligations to the Catholic Church and then go to Protestant Churches with family/friends to worship together, at times. It’s strange how my faith is never challenged in those situations as it is here.

There are Christians in this area that know me and they know that I pray for every patient we pickup, because I speak of it openly. Many of them tell me because of this, they want me if they ever need an ambulance. Of course I pray they don’t need my services, but if they do they can rest assured I’m communicating with the divine physician on their behalf.

I hope no one finds offense at my analogy of Him being a divine physician.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I am so glad you were able to go.

:harp:

thank you, it was wonderful to experience this worship service.

 

[Dokimas]

1-So then His Spirit teaches different truths through different interpretations?

2- We should be responsible for ourselves and listen and learn? 3-Which teacher do we listen and learn from when there’s different interpretations offered? 4- Who has the correct traditions that Paul told us to hold too, whether by word or epistle?

5-Seems scriptures don’t tell us to mind our own business, in my opinion. 6-We are to discern spirits, teachers, doctrines, etc. We are understand that scriptures are hard to understand, by the unlearned and unstable and they are the unwise that leads people the wrong way, as Peter says, to their own destruction.

7-It’s simple for Catholics to accept Christ at His word concerning His Church. Trusting in His Church is trusting in Him.

8-No Protestant wants to admit it, but private interpretation is not scriptural, just as the Bible is the only authority is not scriptural. According to most Protestants, 9- if it’s not the the Bible it’s not scriptural and it’s a man made tradition. 10- But, that only seems to pertain to Catholic beliefs, that they don’t agree with the interpretation on.

It’s really simple to figure out. We both believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. 11-Why did God inspire it be written that the Church of the living God is the pillar and ground of truth instead of scriptures? Why did God inspire it be written that the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known through the Church instead of scriptures? Why did Christ tell us to take disputes to the Church instead of scriptures?

12-The authority of the Church is there in scriptures.

1-Silly question; the answer is still no.​

2- yes​

3-a wise studier studies from many sources always focusing on the Bible. However, the Bible much of the Bible is quite straight forward.​

4-It it doens’t contradict the Bible and if it glorifies God, I don’t think it matters.​

5-What did Jesus mean when speaking to Peter in John 21?

20 ¶ Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?”
21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”
22 Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”
23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”​

6-How do you discern me?​

7-So do I; our understanding of what Jesus meant is different; you seem to believe what your church has said about itself.​

8-Untrue and I’ve called you on this a few times before. I really wish you’d stop saying this. You don’t seem to be one that likes spreading untruth.​

9-Well, if Bible and Scripture is synonomous, then if follows that if it’s not in the Bible it’s not Scriptural; whoever, as you and I have discussed, just because it’s not in the Bible does NOT mean it’s not true. There’s lots of truths not mentioned in the Bible.​

10-Again, you and I have discussed this before; you aren’t being correct here,either.​

11-To let us in on His secret about His church, I guess. I doubt if you’ll, for a second, entertain that your understanding of what God means about all your questions on the churches place is incorrect?​

12-Agreed; we disagree what is meant by church.

 

[jmcrae]

I have wanted to see what a Catholic service was like for several weeks and I finally was able to attend one this morning. I thought it was very lovely and I admired the reverence. I tried to follow everyone standing , sitting, etc. but I did not take communion(I was told on this forum that I shouldnt). I was surprised that only one person spoke to me. She asked at the end if I was visiting and I told her yes that I had never been to a Catholic Church and she said “Oh then you didnt know what to do.” and that that was “ok”. then she left.

That’s pretty funny. I wish that she would have said, “Welcome to our church!” Whenever I see someone acting oddly at my parish, I go up to them and ask them if I can help them find something. It’s a great ice-breaker for people who are brand new to the experience of a Catholic Mass.

I assume that there are other time that Catholics get together and do more fellowshipping?

Most people belong to a group that meets during the week some time, or else they go to a restaurant for coffee together after Mass.

most people seemed to come and go without any relationship with each other. Is that normal at every mass?

In bigger parishes, it is. In smaller parishes, people know each other and look out for each other.

I was surprised how few people attended for a community of several thousand people and this is the only Catholic church.

There are a lot of people who seem to be under the impression that missing Mass is “no big deal,” so they sleep in or else do other things on Sundays.

Is it normal if a stranger comes to a Catholic church that no one talks to them?

They are most likely assuming that you normally go to a different Mass, or to a different parish. It wouldn’t occur to most of them to think that this might be someone’s first time at Mass. The only reason I ever think of it is because I am a convert.

 

[brkn1]

As for why does the priest add the water to the wine, the water, I have been told, represents us, and the wine, will become Christ’s blood. We become part of Christ. …I have READ (somewhere) that in Roman times, though, all decent people cut the wine with water because it was so strong. It could be something that has been retained from that (don’t know what this has to do with Passover, though…). If you note, it’s only a drop of water that was added to the wine.

stmargaretofscotlandparish.org/faq.html#waterTheWineWhy does the priest add water the wine at Mass? The mixing of water and wine is an ancient liturgical practice in both the east and west. Because of the wine’s heavy texture, it became customary in both secular and religious usage to dilute the wine with water to render it less strong. Early Christians continued this custom in the celebration of the Eucharist.

I note that you say one drop and then you say it is to dilute the wine, which one drop does not do. There seems to be an implication that they made inferior wine back then, which I rather doubt.

Once established, it gained a symbolic interpretation. In the west the mingling came to represent the union of Christ with the faithful: just as wine receives water, so Christ takes us and our sins to himself.

Christ no longer takes our sin to or upon Himself. That happened only once during the appointed time at Calvary.

The eastern interpretation was that the wine and water represent the divine and human nature in Christ. At Rome the rite was eventually given a prayer expressing both meanings. The prayer today is an abbreviated version, said quietly by the priest. “By the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled himself to share in our humanity.”

ascensioncatholicparish.org/AskaPriest/tabid/124/Default.aspx
WHY DOES THE PRIEST ADD WATER TO THE WINE? - March 20, 2005 This is done to signify that both water and blood flowed from the pierced side of our crucified Savior (John 19:34). The water and blood are symbols of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life. From that point on, it is possible “to be born of spirit and water” (John 3:5) and enter the Kingdom of God.

I understand the symbolism that might come from water, but that does not justify adding water to the wine. It is not mentioned in Scripture for the Lord’s Supper, so why do so on the assumption that it is a proper thing to add due to symbolism. You first claim that the bread and wine are not symbolic and now you add water as a symbol. Where is the consistency in this?
You might also add some leaven to the bread for our sin which Christ bore for us on the Cross. I say this to show where adding stuff might end up.
Catholics base their claim to authority on their interpretation of the Bible and then they turn around and seem to say that they can add to God’s Word.
Your church also says that “…through God’s will, grace is not conferred on anyone without Mary’s cooperation.” I will not go into this claim, but I will mention that Karl Keating defends this claim with: “True, scriptural proofs for this are lacking.” as he tries to defend such unbiblical claims some other way.
I see a strong contradiction in such a dismissal of Scripture.

 

[jmcrae]

I note that you say one drop and then you say it is to dilute the wine, which one drop does not do. There seems to be an implication that they made inferior wine back then, which I rather doubt. Christ no longer takes our sin to or upon Himself. That happened only once during the appointed time at Calvary.

If that were so, wouldn’t it mean that anyone who sinned after that time could never be forgiven of their sins?

I understand the symbolism that might come from water, but that does not justify adding water to the wine. It is not mentioned in Scripture for the Lord’s Supper, so why do so on the assumption that it is a proper thing to add due to symbolism. You first claim that the bread and wine are not symbolic and now you add water as a symbol. Where is the consistency in this?

A Sacrament is a sign (a group of symbols) that is or does the thing that it signifies.

You might also add some leaven to the bread for our sin which Christ bore for us on the Cross. I say this to show where adding stuff might end up.
Catholics base their claim to authority on their interpretation of the Bible and then they turn around and seem to say that they can add to God’s Word.

It was the Apostles who gave us the Mass, including the adding of a drop of water into the wine at the time of the Consecration, so you’ll want to take it up with them.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

1-Silly question; the answer is still no.

It was rhetorical.​

2- yes

Is telling Catholics they are wrong being responsible to yourself?​

3-a wise studier studies from many sources always focusing on the Bible. However, the Bible much of the Bible is quite straight forward.

Like men of the Church that have dedicated their entire lives to Christ, His Church, Traditions, sciptures and also come from the Church that preserved the scriptures through the ages for it to be in our hands today?

We feel the discussion between Christ and Peter in Matthew 16 is as straight forward as it gets.​

4-It it doens’t contradict the Bible and if it glorifies God, I don’t think it matters.

To call the mother of the Lord blessed as scriptures say, or that her soul magnifies God as scriptures say, or accept that she was full of grace as scriptures say doesn’t glorify God?

Seems we are condemned for any action we believe in and yet we do these thing to glorify God.​

5-What did Jesus mean when speaking to Peter in John 21?

Don’t worry about what I have in mind for Him, you tend my sheep as I told you to do.

What do you think of Jesus’ plan that John, the disciple that He loved, care for His mother in His earthly absence? Also, why would Jesus go against Jewish tradition that the next sibling in line care for the mother, had Mary had other children?​

6-How do you discern me?

To be honest, I don’t know. Are you a teacher?​

7-So do I; our understanding of what Jesus meant is different; you seem to believe what your church has said about itself.

Yet, Matthew 16 is one of those straight forward reads you mentioned. I know you deny the Catholic Church was the Church of the Bible, but where does that teaching come from? It wasn’t an objection when Protestantism was formed.​

8-Untrue and I’ve called you on this a few times before. I really wish you’d stop saying this. You don’t seem to be one that likes spreading untruth.

That’s right the Holy Spirit gives us the interpretation, yet you say He doesn’t give different interpretations. Then how is Protestantism justified with so many denominations with different teachings, based on private interpretations and all claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit? How is someone to know which interpretation they are following is learned or unlearned, stable or unstable, wise or unwise? Peter said the unlearned, unstable and unwise wrest scriptures even to their own destruction. He warns that we should take heed lest we be led from our own steadfastness. Seems those differences can have major implications in one’s salvation, in my opinion.​

9-Well, if Bible and Scripture is synonomous, then if follows that if it’s not in the Bible it’s not Scriptural; whoever, as you and I have discussed, just because it’s not in the Bible does NOT mean it’s not true. There’s lots of truths not mentioned in the Bible.

Wait a minute, why are some Catholic beliefs challenged ‘because it’s not in scriptures’? Why are they not ‘lots of truths not mentioned in the Bible’? Can you not see the double standard here? Protestant beliefs not in the Bible are truths not mentioned, but Catholic beliefs are not biblical, period.​

10-Again, you and I have discussed this before; you aren’t being correct here,either.

Mary was immaculately conceived, perpetually a virgin and the mother of God. Peter was the leader over the Church Christ built. Christ is really present in the Eurcharist. All wrong, but we are to interpret scriptures for ourselves and the Bible is the only authority, all right. Catholics wrong, Protestants right.​

11-To let us in on His secret about His church, I guess. I doubt if you’ll, for a second, entertain that your understanding of what God means about all your questions on the churches place is incorrect?

The Church of the living god is the pillar and foundation of truth. I’m wrong? The manifold wisdom of God maybe made known through the Church. I’m wrong? Christ said take disputes to the Church. I’m wrong? God did not inspire it be written that scriptures was the pillar and ground of truth. I’m wrong? God did not inspire it be written that scriptures was the place that the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known. I’m wrong? Christ did not say take disputes to scriptures. I’m wrong yet again? What happened to most of the Bible is a straightforward read?​

12-Agreed; we disagree what is meant by church.

God did establish an authority by appointing specific men over His Church. God did not appoint multitudes, or a body of believers as the authority of His Church. Again, I see it coming, I’m wrong again and you’re right.

EDITED TO ADD: I’m sorry again MyRdmrLvs. "I truly didn’t realize I was posting in this thread debating once again. I’m off for tonight, I’m too tired to know which threads I’m in at this point…goodnight and God Bless.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I’m sorry more people did not speak with you, bu tI’m Glad that someone DID ask. I’ve heard other people say that NO ONE spoke to them.

Most parishes do have other activities that are forms of “worship” such as bible studies, rosary groups, Eucharistic Adoration and so forth. But the mass is our Primary celebration. And OH what a great and marvelous thing it is - Nothing less than a personal participation in the One Sacrifice and the Grace and blessing of receiving Christ’s body Blood Soul and Divinity into ourselves at communion.
I’m sure you are use to “worship” including song and prayer but being built primarily around a sermon. The Catholic Church worship is different. Teaching is done at other times. The mass is about pure worship of God in the most Blessed Sacrament.

Unfortunately parishes in general are NOT terribly good a welcoming strangers. Partly I think that, because parishes generally have multiple masses and people might not go to the same mass wvery week they assume a “stranger” is just someone who normally attends a different mass, or who might be visiting from another parish.
I hope you won’t let this deter you from visiting again. After all the most important person - Jesus - knew you were there.

How many masses are offered on the weekend? It could be that this is not the most well attended of the masses.
Unfortunately we also have catholics who fail to live up to their “Sunday obligation”. We pray for them.

I hope you are getting good answers to your questions.

Peace
James

there is a later mass at 930 and I didnt stick around maybe most catholics like to sleep late. See were not that different! I think the explanation that the focus is on God during mass makes perfect sense. We are also very solemn during communion and when we sing worship songs we are not speaking to one another.