I Believe in One God

[Cavaradossi]

How can God the Father be greater then Son the Son when they are all completely equal and made up of One God?

[bibledrb]John 14:28[/bibledrb]

The question isn’t really if the Father is greater than the Son; it’s how the Father is greater than the Son. Providing a good exegesis of this verse was a big step to convincing others of the truth of the homoousian formulation for the Trinity.

 

[mercytruth]

The basis of the Triune God is, GOD IS. God is One. This is clearly stated in the OT. None of the ECF deny the truth of One God.

The Father reveals the Son, in the Incarnation, and the Son reveals the Father, in the events of His life and in His prayers.

The Father and the Son reveal the Holy Spirit.

If you begin with One God, it isn’t possible to say one Person of the Holy Trinity is greater than the other.

As to the Father being the Sun and Jesus being a ray. It is a metaphor, and like all metaphors, they can be used to explain the Holy Trinity, but they will always fall short.

The Trinity is like the three stages of water.
The Trinity is like a clover leaf.

All convey what is believed about God, but all fall short.

We are human, not God, and therefore our understanding of God is limited and always will be.

We have our perceptions, and perceptions are of the heart as well as of the spirit.
These are my perceptions, and many of them are spoken by the ECF
I admit that I could be misinterpreting the early church fathers, and I am humbly willing to
stand corrected.

If God the Father in invisible, and the only-begotten Son became visible to Moses, then the only-begotten Son is not equal to God the Father who is invisible.

If all things were, and are created by God the Father through His Son, then the Son is the agent of creation, and not the prime cause, or principle of all creation.

If all revelation of God the Father was spoken through the Son, then the Son is the spokesperson for all the revelation of the Father

If God the Father is immortal and can not die, and if the God the Father gave his only-begotten Son over to death, then the Son of God is not immortal.

If God the Father is the supreme will, and if the Son of God has been obedient to the supreme will of His Father in all things, then the Son of God is in submission to the will of His Father and can not be the supreme will.

If God the Father can not be tempted with evil, and if the Son of God was tempted in every way as ourselves, yet without sin, then the Son of God was not free from the temptation of evil.

If God the Father is holy, and can not be contaminated by sin, then when God the Father laid all the sins of the world on His Son, then His Son was contaminated by our unholy sin.

If we separate the human from the divine in Jesus Christ in any of these inequalities, then we are dividing the unity of Jesus Christ our Lord.

At this time, this is what is in my heart and in my spirit, and soul. I am willing to stand corrected by anyone who does not omit the ECF, or scriptures in their persuasion. May God do with me as He wills.

God’s peace be with you.

 

[rinnie]

[bibledrb]John 14:28[/bibledrb]

The question isn’t really if the Father is greater than the Son; it’s how the Father is greater than the Son. Providing a good exegesis of this verse was a big step to convincing others of the truth of the homoousian formulation for the Trinity.

But how again can that be, when the Father and the Son are indeed one.

What this scripture is saying is not that the Father is greater then the Son, what this scripture is saying is though the Son and the Father are indeed equal, the glory for the moment is hidden, It it in his return to the Father that it will reveal it once again.

Christ said before his death that you will not know the truth until he comes again in glory. He came again in glory on the 3rd day. He said the Son will glorify the Father and the Father will glorify the Son.

Think of that passage. We can only glorify ONE GOD. If all are not equal to one another and part of one God, how can they all be ONE in being with the Father then.?

If God the Son is not equal to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit then we would indeed have 3 gods.

Look at in John 14 How Christ tells us HE is the Way, he has revealed to us the Father, he ALONE gives access to the Father. If he was not true Man and true God how could he ALONE give access to the Father?

He tells us the Holy Spirit who the Father will send in my name. That is in the name of Christ, Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in his Glory!

Christ told us the Holy Spirit will be sent by him seated at the right hand of the Father.

How can anything be done with Christ alone, if he is not equal to God? Nothing can be done without God,

It is the Holy Spirit who is sent by GOD (JESUS) who will teach us to understand the mystery of Christ in the fullfillment of the scriptures.

It is the Holy Spirit who is to bear witness to Jesus and shame the unbelieving world. IF Jesus were not true God why would the world be shamed? The world is shamed because they did not accept Christ as the One True God, in the name of the Son.

 

[RebeccaJ]

We have our perceptions, and perceptions are of the heart as well as of the spirit.
These are my perceptions, and many of them are spoken by the ECF
I admit that I could be misinterpreting the early church fathers, and I am humbly willing to
stand corrected.

If God the Father in invisible, and the only-begotten Son became visible to Moses, then the only-begotten Son is not equal to God the Father who is invisible.

Why?

If all things were, and are created by God the Father through His Son, then the Son is the agent of creation, and not the prime cause, or principle of all creation.

In this you divide Jesus from His Divinity.

If all revelation of God the Father was spoken through the Son, then the Son is the spokesperson for all the revelation of the Father

The Son is the Word of God.

“For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father’s will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the wordwhich remains] in us, when we give it out” – Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho

If God the Father is immortal and can not die, and if the God the Father gave his only-begotten Son over to death, then the Son of God is not immortal.

Jesus was fully human and fully divine. It isn’t His divinity that died on the cross. He was able to raise Himself from the dead by the very fact of His divine nature. If His divinity was dead, and He were not immortal, then He would not have raised Himself from dead, as the dead can’t raise the dead.

If God the Father is the supreme will, and if the Son of God has been obedient to the supreme will of His Father in all things, then the Son of God is in submission to the will of His Father and can not be the supreme will.

He is in submission to the will of the Father, as the Word of God, in the same way that your word is in submission to you. This doesn’t make your word less than you, it IS you.

If God the Father can not be tempted with evil, and if the Son of God was tempted in every way as ourselves, yet without sin, then the Son of God was not free from the temptation of evil.

The Son was tempted as Man, not as God.

If God the Father is holy, and can not be contaminated by sin, then when God the Father laid all the sins of the world on His Son, then His Son was contaminated by our unholy sin.

Jesus was not contaminated by sin. He is expatiation for them. He took on the suffering that our sin causes.

If we separate the human from the divine in Jesus Christ in any of these inequalities, then we are dividing the unity of Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is no division. Jesus was unlike any Man to live, there is no other Word of God. God lowered Himself for us, and took on the form of Man. He didn’t cease to be God. He existed as fully human and fully divine.

At this time, this is what is in my heart and in my spirit, and soul. I am willing to stand corrected by anyone who does not omit the ECF, or scriptures in their persuasion. May God do with me as He wills.

God’s peace be with you.

While I can understand the struggle (been there done that), you have made a self-interpretation that is not Catholic, or even Christian, doctrine. Which is a creation of your own. A false God.

I don’t mean to be harsh, but either you have created a false God, or you must believe that the Church is not guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[rinnie]

We have our perceptions, and perceptions are of the heart as well as of the spirit.
These are my perceptions, and many of them are spoken by the ECF
I admit that I could be misinterpreting the early church fathers, and I am humbly willing to
stand corrected.

If God the Father in invisible, and the only-begotten Son became visible to Moses, then the only-begotten Son is not equal to God the Father who is invisible.

If all things were, and are created by God the Father through His Son, then the Son is the agent of creation, and not the prime cause, or principle of all creation.

If all revelation of God the Father was spoken through the Son, then the Son is the spokesperson for all the revelation of the Father

If God the Father is immortal and can not die, and if the God the Father gave his only-begotten Son over to death, then the Son of God is not immortal.

If God the Father is the supreme will, and if the Son of God has been obedient to the supreme will of His Father in all things, then the Son of God is in submission to the will of His Father and can not be the supreme will.

If God the Father can not be tempted with evil, and if the Son of God was tempted in every way as ourselves, yet without sin, then the Son of God was not free from the temptation of evil.

If God the Father is holy, and can not be contaminated by sin, then when God the Father laid all the sins of the world on His Son, then His Son was contaminated by our unholy sin.

If we separate the human from the divine in Jesus Christ in any of these inequalities, then we are dividing the unity of Jesus Christ our Lord.

At this time, this is what is in my heart and in my spirit, and soul. I am willing to stand corrected by anyone who does not omit the ECF, or scriptures in their persuasion. May God do with me as He wills.

God’s peace be with you.

Hold on here lets speak of temptation. To tempt someone is to make them think of doing something wrong and pretty much convincing them to do it.

On one hand you can tempt someone ONLY if they do want to do something. Like to tempt me to smoke, I have No DISIRE to smoke. It is not something I want to do. It is not a desire to me.

So how can you tempt me to smoke, when I have no desire to smoke. You are tempting me in a sense that you are trying to get me to desire something, But you will fail, simply because as you tempted me, I have not the desire, so I was not tempted.

Now the devil did indeed TRY to tempt Christ to sin, but CHRIST has No DISIRE to sin. So he could not be tempted. Do you see what I am saying?

Or to make it easier, I am on a diet and want chocolate cake, that is say my favorite cake, so you say have some cake, have you tempted me? Yes, You made me think about having the cake, you tried to get me to take it.

But if I have no desire for Chocolate cake (say I hate chocolate) there is no temptation there on MY part. only yours.

that is how Christ is fully Human, fully divine. While he was tempted by the devil, he never even thought of givng in. It was never going to happen, Christ was not tempted, he never wanted to sin. Ever.

Also God did die as human. for one reason to take away death for humans. But you are looking a death fully on a human level here. Think back to Adam and Eve. The devil told Eve if she ate the apple she would die, Did she die? No not on a human level.

Eve died on a Spiritual level, she brought death to the Soul. Christ died on a human level the opposite of Eve, to bring LIFE back into the soul.

Its like you are kind of getting the death on the cross backwards or something. You keep thinking of death on a human level, the body.

think as Christ said don’t worry about the death of the body, worry about death of the soul. The body only lasts so long, the soul is eternal.

 

[mercytruth]

RebeccaJ says,

**I don’t mean to be harsh, but either you have created a false God, or you must believe that the Church is not guided by the Holy Spirit. **

Did you ever think that considering all the ‘mystery’ that is spoken regarding the Trinity, that both the Chuch is guided by the Holy Spirit, and so were many of the early church fathers of whom I was paraphrasing? Is it not possible that in our limited humanity, that no one on this side of heaven is able to perfectly explain the depths of the mystery of the Trinity?

Does it occur to you that God the Son is in union with His Father in creation, in revelation, in salvation, and in the restoration of all things? That without this unity nothing would have been accomplished? This is the unity, or oneness of God that shouts from the rooftops for me.

God’s peace be with you.

 

[mercytruth]

Hold on here lets speak of temptation. To tempt someone is to make them think of doing something wrong and pretty much convincing them to do it.

On one hand you can tempt someone ONLY if they do want to do something. Like to tempt me to smoke, I have No DISIRE to smoke. It is not something I want to do. It is not a desire to me.

So how can you tempt me to smoke, when I have no desire to smoke. You are tempting me in a sense that you are trying to get me to desire something, But you will fail, simply because as you tempted me, I have not the desire, so I was not tempted.

Now the devil did indeed TRY to tempt Christ to sin, but CHRIST has No DISIRE to sin. So he could not be tempted. Do you see what I am saying?

Or to make it easier, I am on a diet and want chocolate cake, that is say my favorite cake, so you say have some cake, have you tempted me? Yes, You made me think about having the cake, you tried to get me to take it.

But if I have no desire for Chocolate cake (say I hate chocolate) there is no temptation there on MY part. only yours.

that is how Christ is fully Human, fully divine. While he was tempted by the devil, he never even thought of givng in. It was never going to happen, Christ was not tempted, he never wanted to sin. Ever.

Rinne,

I do see what you are saying, and it makes perfect sense as long as we presume that our Lord Jesus Christ never had any desire to sin. Yet, I would not say these things if there were not early church fathers who say he was tempted in every way as ourselves.

God’s peace be with you.

 

[RebeccaJ]

RebeccaJ says,

**I don’t mean to be harsh, but either you have created a false God, or you must believe that the Church is not guided by the Holy Spirit. **

Did you ever think that considering all the ‘mystery’ that is spoken regarding the Trinity, that both the Chuch is guided by the Holy Spirit, and so were many of the early church fathers of whom I was paraphrasing? Is it not possible that in our limited humanity, that no one on this side of heaven is able to perfectly explain the depths of the mystery of the Trinity?

Does it occur to you that God the Son is in union with His Father in creation, in revelation, in salvation, and in the restoration of all things? That without this unity nothing would have been accomplished? This is the unity, or oneness of God that shouts from the rooftops for me.

God’s peace be with you.

Well yes, they are in unity in those things as well as everything else. This unity is an aspect of their Being, which is God.

You ignored everything else I responded to.

 

[rinnie]

Rinne,

I do see what you are saying, and it makes perfect sense as long as we presume that our Lord Jesus Christ never had any desire to sin. Yet, I would not say these things if there were not early church fathers who say he was tempted in every way as ourselves.

God’s peace be with you.

And you are not wrong to say that he was tempted, but he was tempted on a human side.

Here this may help you better.

Okay look at Peter. Everytime he did something in human thinking, lets say, he got yelled at. Think what Jesus kept telling him all through the scripture. Peter stop thinking like this world!! Peter said don’t die, Jesus was like I have to die so you can live. Peter couldnt get it, Human thinking again.

Now Jesus asked who am I? Peter was the one who came up with the right answer, How? Simple Jesus told him, it was not human (flesh and blood) that revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. Now Peter got A+ on that one, he spoke as divine not human.

Not lets go back to where he is told to lead all of the other Disciples.

Jesus said Peter do you love me, he speaks human he says yes, then again, he speaks human he says yes. Then HE GETS IT!! He speaks Divine. He does not say YES I LOVE YOU THE MOST! He says YOU KNOW EVERYTHING LORD! See he is now thinking and speaking in the Divine!

We tend to do this.

Now if Jesus was tempted, in the sense that he had the desire to sin, he could not be God! Why? Because God would never have the desire to sin.

But does humans tempting humans to sin mean that they have made them have that DESIRE? Of course not. The only way you could tempt me to sin, is if I wanted to do it all along.

Not was Jesus tempted as a HUMAN to sin? Yes he was. But was he TEMPTED as far as did he have that DESIRE? No he did not. I am trying to think of a clearer way of saying it. Let me think somemore on that.

But remember Christ did not reveal himself to us as being God why? Simple. He knew that a human cannot glorify themself.

If I was the best in the world and kept saying I am the best. you would not accept that. But if the world kept saying I was the best, then you would accept it. See what I am saying. God knew he could not glorify himself as the Father so the Son glorified the Father so the Son could glorify the Father. Does it make better sense to you that way?

It goes back to this world self praise is not worth much. But others praise!!

 

[57Bill]

Thank you for the response!

Anybody else want to explain his/her understanding?

Nope…agree and recited in many faiths other than the CC

 

[mercytruth]

And you are not wrong to say that he was tempted, but he was tempted on a human side.

Here this may help you better.

Okay look at Peter. Everytime he did something in human thinking, lets say, he got yelled at. Think what Jesus kept telling him all through the scripture. Peter stop thinking like this world!! Peter said don’t die, Jesus was like I have to die so you can live. Peter couldnt get it, Human thinking again.

Now Jesus asked who am I? Peter was the one who came up with the right answer, How? Simple Jesus told him, it was not human (flesh and blood) that revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. Now Peter got A+ on that one, he spoke as divine not human.

Not lets go back to where he is told to lead all of the other Disciples

Jesus said Peter do you love me, he speaks human he says yes, then again, he speaks human he says yes. Then HE GETS IT!! He speaks Divine. He does not say YES I LOVE YOU THE MOST! He says YOU KNOW EVERYTHING LORD! See he is now thinking and speaking in the Divine!

We tend to do this.

Now if Jesus was tempted, in the sense that he had the desire to sin, he could not be God! Why? Because God would never have the desire to sin.

But does humans tempting humans to sin mean that they have made them have that DESIRE? Of course not. The only way you could tempt me to sin, is if I wanted to do it all along.

Not was Jesus tempted as a HUMAN to sin? Yes he was. But was he TEMPTED as far as did he have that DESIRE? No he did not. I am trying to think of a clearer way of saying it. Let me think somemore on that.

But remember Christ did not reveal himself to us as being God why? Simple. He knew that a human cannot glorify themself.

If I was the best in the world and kept saying I am the best. you would not accept that. But if the world kept saying I was the best, then you would accept it. See what I am saying. God knew he could not glorify himself as the Father so the Son glorified the Father so the Son could glorify the Father. Does it make better sense to you that way?

It goes back to this world self praise is not worth much. But others praise!!

Rinnie,

You are too likable for debating this subject, and I have no desire to cause any sort of rancor, or division. Maybe I should just keep my opinions to myself.

God’s peace to you, truly.

 

[rinnie]

But back to the temptation. Jesus was tempted on a human level. but he showed us something. No matter how hard or great the temptation could be, you can not sin.

See that was the meaning of the temptation, to show us, that we as humans do not have to give into temptation.

It is in the perfect prayer. And lead us NOT into temptation but deliver us from evil. Christ showed us how to be delivered from evil. He showed us that he was tempted on a human level but never gave in, and proved to us, we can overpower temptation also.

He suffered as a human, physical suffering to show us he can relate to us not only on a divine level, he brought himself down to a human level and suffered for us to show us it could be done.

So we could never say but dear God you don’t know how I feel. God did every single human suffering as Man in the name of the Son to show us he does indeed know. Even more.

Think of when he says if the world hates you remember they hated me first!! By becomming human and walking this earth, he showed us that no one can overpower him. No human can overpower him.

Think of what he says when he is on trial, he says you have no power over me. only what was given to you. He told his Apostles he HAS to die, he HAS to suffer, Peter on a human level could not understand this.

Look how after Jesus died they all hid, Even Peter. But once the Holy Spirit entered him, the Power of the divine set in, remember how it says they all had their MINDS OPEN to scripture. They no longer acted or spoke like humans anymore.

they began to see that they would also die, and then instead of being afraid they welcomed death in the name of Jesus.

think about this, it will sink in I promise.

It took years for it all to fit for me. Believe Me

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,

You are too likable for debating this subject, and I have no desire to cause any sort of rancor, or division. Maybe I should just keep my opinions to myself.

God’s peace to you, truly.

Oh no my love, Please don’t feel that way. You have every right to explain and debate your view. Its important. Thats how we learn and help oneanother.

We may and probally never agree, but thats okay!

 

[Wisely]

Some links:

articulifidei.blogspot.com/search/label/Monarchy%20of%20God%20the%20Father
articulifidei.blogspot.com/2011/01/is-one-god-of-bible-trinity-or-god.html
orthodox-church.info/eureka/asp/god.asp

:twocents:

 

[rinnie]

Here is my line of reasoning, it may show you better.

James 1:22 God cannot be tempted by evil and does not put anybody to the test.

With this said did the devil try to tempt Jesus to sin, to do evil. Yes he did. But did he tempt Christ to do evil or betray God, No, it never worked.

Tempation. Blessed is anyone who PERSEVERES when trials come. Such a person is of proven worth and will win the prize of life, the crown that the Lord promised to those who love him.

So Can you tempt God to do evil? No you cannot. Did the Devil TRY to tempt Christ to do evil? Yes it did, he tried every single thing he could think of.

But what did Christ do? He rebuked the devil every single time.

The word of God says everyone is put to the test by being attracted and seduced by that persons own wrong desire. Then the desire conceives and gives birth to sin and when sin reaches full growth it gives brith to death.

Now the question is does Christ know what it feels like to be tempted? Of course he does. Now the question is was Christ ever tempted? No? Why? Simply because the only way Christ could have been attracted and seduced he would have to have a wrong desire.

Christ only had one desire on his mind Ever. To do the will of his Father. How could he have that only desire, and then be tempted by evil? It is impossible.

God cannot be tempted to do evil. Was he temptep by the devil? Yes Did he ever have the desire on any temptation that was given to him by the devil? NO Again he rebuted the devil at every counter.

We can all be tempted to do evil. The devil can tempt every single one of us, and does. Usually as he tried to tempt Christ at your lowest and worst time. But if you rebuke him. just as Christ did.

If you keep your mind one with God you can rid yourself of any temptations. Because they come from within us, as the bible tells us.

This is why we can relate to the Father through the Son so well, the Son became fully human for us. to show us we also can beat the devil no matter how hard he tries to tempt us away from God.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Jesus showed us how to love perfectly. Sanctifying grace enables a person to truly know freedom, that is, a holiness that does not view acting against the will of God as an option, at all. Out of love for God, perfected in Jesus Christ.

Since it is Jesus who has sanctified us, of course Jesus could not view sin as an option. One could not be sanctified by a less than perfect Being, and there is only one perfect Being: God.

Satan can tempt all he likes, but one who is holy does not view the temptation being offered as an option. It would be like tempting you with killing a loved one. It just isn’t an option, but certainly, Satan will try any temptation that will lead away from God.

---

Also, if you want to delve into this further, the Temptation of Christ was a repeat of the temptation of Adam and Eve in the garden. The three-fold temptation described by St. John.

[BIBLEDRB]1 John 2:16[/BIBLEDRB]

In the response of Jesus to these temptations, we are taught how to keep to the Will of God.

God became Man, for us, not for Himself.

 

[Cavaradossi]

But how again can that be, when the Father and the Son are indeed one.

What this scripture is saying is not that the Father is greater then the Son, what this scripture is saying is though the Son and the Father are indeed equal, the glory for the moment is hidden, It it in his return to the Father that it will reveal it once again.

I disagree. That verse in the East has been understood to mean that the Father is greater than the Son, because the Father alone is without source, principle, or cause.

Christ said before his death that you will not know the truth until he comes again in glory. He came again in glory on the 3rd day. He said the Son will glorify the Father and the Father will glorify the Son.

Think of that passage. We can only glorify ONE GOD. If all are not equal to one another and part of one God, how can they all be ONE in being with the Father then.?

The Father and the Son are not parts of God. I’m almost positive that the CC teaches that God has no parts (divine simplicity). They are one in “being” (essence is a better word here) with the Father in that they are what the Father is: they are all divine.

If God the Son is not equal to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit then we would indeed have 3 gods.

How? The teaching is that the Son and Holy Spirit are equal in essence (ousia) to the Father. This does not mean that they are equal in certain hypostatic properties or else they would be homohypostatic, and we would have modalism.

Look at in John 14 How Christ tells us HE is the Way, he has revealed to us the Father, he ALONE gives access to the Father. If he was not true Man and true God how could he ALONE give access to the Father?

He tells us the Holy Spirit who the Father will send in my name. That is in the name of Christ, Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in his Glory!

Christ told us the Holy Spirit will be sent by him seated at the right hand of the Father.

How can anything be done with Christ alone, if he is not equal to God? Nothing can be done without God,

It is the Holy Spirit who is sent by GOD (JESUS) who will teach us to understand the mystery of Christ in the fullfillment of the scriptures.

It is the Holy Spirit who is to bear witness to Jesus and shame the unbelieving world. IF Jesus were not true God why would the world be shamed? The world is shamed because they did not accept Christ as the One True God, in the name of the Son.

But none of this really applies. I don’t deny that the Son and the Holy Spirit are of one essence with the Father.

 

[rinnie]

I disagree. That verse in the East has been understood to mean that the Father is greater than the Son, because the Father alone is without source, principle, or cause.

The Father and the Son are not parts of God. I’m almost positive that the CC teaches that God has no parts (divine simplicity). They are one in “being” (essence is a better word here) with the Father in that they are what the Father is: they are all divine.

How? The teaching is that the Son and Holy Spirit are equal in essence (ousia) to the Father. This does not mean that they are equal in certain hypostatic properties or else they would be homohypostatic, and we would have modalism.

But none of this really applies. I don’t deny that the Son and the Holy Spirit are of one essence with the Father.

Correct I should not have said parts. They are 3 persons in One God. The RCC teaches that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are the 3 persons.

The Church uses the term substance, also at times by essesce or nature to designate the divine being in its unity. The term person or hypostasis to designate the Father, Son and H.S. to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.

The Trinity has only one and the same nature so does it have the same operation. The Fther the Son and the Holy Spirit are not 3 principles of creation but one common work according to his unique personal property. The Church confessesOne God and Father from whom all things are, One Lord Jesus whom all things are and One H.S. from whom all things are. It is the gift of the Holy Spirit that show forth the properties of the divine persons.

Everyone who glorifies the Father does so through the Son in the Holy Spirit, everyone who follows Christ does so because of the Father draws hin and the spirit moves him.

The incarnation of Gods’s Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that in the Father and with the Father the Son is One and the Same God.

 

[rinnie]

I disagree. That verse in the East has been understood to mean that the Father is greater than the Son, because the Father alone is without source, principle, or cause.

The Father and the Son are not parts of God. I’m almost positive that the CC teaches that God has no parts (divine simplicity). They are one in “being” (essence is a better word here) with the Father in that they are what the Father is: they are all divine.

How? The teaching is that the Son and Holy Spirit are equal in essence (ousia) to the Father. This does not mean that they are equal in certain hypostatic properties or else they would be homohypostatic, and we would have modalism.

But none of this really applies. I don’t deny that the Son and the Holy Spirit are of one essence with the Father.

And the RCC disagrees with you.

CCC 266 This is the Catholic faith. We worship ONE GOD in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity without confusing the persons or dividing the substance. for the person of the Father is ONE, the Son is anothers and the H.S. is One their GLORY is EQUAL their Magesty COETERNAL.

 

[rinnie]

Jesus showed us how to love perfectly. Sanctifying grace enables a person to truly know freedom, that is, a holiness that does not view acting against the will of God as an option, at all. Out of love for God, perfected in Jesus Christ.

Since it is Jesus who has sanctified us, of course Jesus could not view sin as an option. One could not be sanctified by a less than perfect Being, and there is only one perfect Being: God.

Satan can tempt all he likes, but one who is holy does not view the temptation being offered as an option. It would be like tempting you with killing a loved one. It just isn’t an option, but certainly, Satan will try any temptation that will lead away from God.

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Also, if you want to delve into this further, the Temptation of Christ was a repeat of the temptation of Adam and Eve in the garden. The three-fold temptation described by St. John.

[BIBLEDRB]1 John 2:16[/BIBLEDRB]

In the response of Jesus to these temptations, we are taught how to keep to the Will of God.

God became Man, for us, not for Himself.

Also as far as temptations go. Look at the Temptation when the devil tries tempt Jesus and give him the power to rule over this world.

Now go back to the beginning of the teaching Of Christ. He said no kingdom of this world is the Kingdom of God. Earthly kingdoms remain earthly human kingdoms and anyone who claims to be able to establish the perfect world is the willling dupe of Satan and plays the world right into his hands.

Now Christ was never tempted by Satan, he did not come to rule the world with evil and lies as this world does. This is the world of the devil. We all know that.

It was not until Christ established the Kingdom of God here on earth the Church that the world Satan was able to put forth to the Lord at that time has alll passed away.

John told us the Kingdom of God is at hand. What did that mean. Christ brought us GOD to this world. He told you, you would not see it until the Son comes in Glory. It was after his death that the Soldier said at the foot of the cross. This man was INDEED the SON OF MAN!!

It was then that they saw that Christ was indeed God. The Son of Man or the Son of God in the O.T meant God.