I believe in reincarnation

[rwoehmke]

Correct me if I’m wrong but is God not Jesus Christ father?

Jesus very definitively said,“If you have seen me you have seen the Father.” John 14:9

You need to read up on the Trinity, One God, Three Divine Persons. When we pray we make the sign of the cross,“In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Note it is not in “the names of” but singular because there is only one God. You said you were a Catholic who had received the Sacraments. Evidently someone did not teach you well or you have forgotten what you learned. Beehn away for a while?

 

[VociMike]

pHaze,

What is your source of truth regarding the afterlife? Who or what do you trust to give you the truth?

Also, do you want to believe in reincarnation? It seems like you do. If so, why do you want to believe in reincarnation? What about it appeals to you?

 

[cath2lic4ever]

Correct me if I’m wrong but is God not Jesus Christ father?

have you been listening to jimi hendrix too much? pHaze is purple haze i suppose. if yes…get over it brother please!

1 john 5:7 and there are three who give testimony in heaven, THE FATHER, THE SON, and THE HOLY SPIRIT. And these THREE are ONE.

GOD bless & prayers to all!

 

[kyria]

Does that make me not Catholic? I was born a roman catholic. I had the sacraments of baptism, communion, penance and confirmation. How can you tell me that my soul will not be reborn again.

In all honesty this is one area I do have a belief in, and I am Catholic. I never used to believe in it, but after having experiences that assisted me to understand purgatory, hell, redemption and resurrection better, which I won’t go into detail about, I am leaning at this stage to the existence of reincarnation. I personally believe it has something to do with purgatory and redemption, however I can’t find anything that says why it can’t exist, just that the Church teaches it doesn’t exist. So I tell people to follow the Church teachings, but in myself I won’t lie, at the moment I do believe in it.

 

[elts1956]

What if you’re going to hell? Wouldn’t you rather live a second life and clean up your mistakes. And I thought God was something you can’t see or feel(physically) other than Jesus Christ.

First of all, I agree this life is a test and I hate tests. But hopefully, through praying for Salvation, loving God and following the leadership of the Catholic Church, we will be able to clean up those BIG mistakes before we die. And by the way, we here on Earth cannot see God physically, we can sense Him only in our minds and hearts, but once we have left the earthlty plane who knows what we will see? Jesus promised us wonders.

 

[Ceil-1]

As embarrassing as it is, I once believed in reincarnation with my whole heart and soul. It seemed to answer a lot of my concerns.
It was introduced to me by trusted adults.

Yet, as I grew, and was able to compare this philosophy and it’s pagan religious origins with Christianity, I realized it not only didn’t hold water, it was a stupid and dangerous belief that rationalizes many grave evils.

It allows rationalization of abortion, murder, stealing, greed,envy, etc. Also, if we are supposed to be improving as time goes along, we are really doing a poor job of it. We’re getting worse and worse. With the bad karma being made, it should take the majority of us billions of reincarnations to catch up to… who? The only good person was Jesus, and even His relatives needed grace to persevere. Listen to Him. Buddah was a good guy, but, he never claimed to have all the answers. I am glad God absorbed my evil into His infinite Mercy, and that I don’t have to. I’d be a flea for a billion years. I never bought into the transmigration thing. How could a soul go back and forth from being insensient, to irrational, to rational, and so on. You should study logic, my friend.

Please give it more thought, pHaze and kyria. It really is a childish belief. And, keep in mind, the kind of people who viciously attacked and killed those people in India have that belief. It is diabolical in origin. Don’t be dupes.

 

[FCEGM]

Correct me if I’m wrong but is God not Jesus Christ father?

Yes, He is; but He is not another God - and neither is the Incarnate Son or the Holy Spirit. Remember, it was you who said “another God.”

 

[pHaze]

i’d still like a reply to my question(top of the page)

Since I saw nothing of relevance I assumed that. I may be wrong. I never said I was 100% right.

What is your source of truth regarding the afterlife? Who or what do you trust to give you the truth?

Also, do you want to believe in reincarnation? It seems like you do. If so, why do you want to believe in reincarnation? What about it appeals to you?

My source is many readings and experiences I’ve been through. I trust the good of this world. Umm, did you happen to read the topic? I believe in it because of the same reason as my sources.

have you been listening to jimi hendrix too much? pHaze is purple haze i suppose. if yes…get over it brother please!

I don’t listen to Jimi Hendrix and if you can’t contribute something without attempting to bash me please don’t post. I rather not read someone’s unintelligent post. Everyone else here has contributed something great to this topic without resorting to that. God bless your soul.

Yes, He is; but He is not another God - and neither is the Incarnate Son or the Holy Spirit. Remember, it was you who said “another God.”

Sorry for the sarcasm. I thought someone would have noted that Jesus is the son of God and that Jesus is also God. I’ll make sure to tone it down with you.

 

[pHaze]

In all honesty this is one area I do have a belief in, and I am Catholic. I never used to believe in it, but after having experiences that assisted me to understand purgatory, hell, redemption and resurrection better, which I won’t go into detail about, I am leaning at this stage to the existence of reincarnation. I personally believe it has something to do with purgatory and redemption, however I can’t find anything that says why it can’t exist, just that the Church teaches it doesn’t exist. So I tell people to follow the Church teachings, but in myself I won’t lie, at the moment I do believe in it.

Thank you. You see most people here(or any other church for that matter) would start criticizing you because you don’t believe in everything a book says. I say you must get to know yourself to truly see what you believe in. Don’t follow what everyone else is doing.

 

[pHaze]

As embarrassing as it is, I once believed in reincarnation with my whole heart and soul. It seemed to answer a lot of my concerns.
It was introduced to me by trusted adults.

Yet, as I grew, and was able to compare this philosophy and it’s pagan religious origins with Christianity, I realized it not only didn’t hold water, it was a stupid and dangerous belief that rationalizes many grave evils.

It allows rationalization of abortion, murder, stealing, greed,envy, etc. Also, if we are supposed to be improving as time goes along, we are really doing a poor job of it. We’re getting worse and worse. With the bad karma being made, it should take the majority of us billions of reincarnations to catch up to… who? The only good person was Jesus, and even His relatives needed grace to persevere. Listen to Him. Buddah was a good guy, but, he never claimed to have all the answers. I am glad God absorbed my evil into His infinite Mercy, and that I don’t have to. I’d be a flea for a billion years. I never bought into the transmigration thing. How could a soul go back and forth from being insensient, to irrational, to rational, and so on. You should study logic, my friend.

Please give it more thought, pHaze and kyria. It really is a childish belief. And, keep in mind, the kind of people who viciously attacked and killed those people in India have that belief. It is diabolical in origin. Don’t be dupes.

Great post. Can you elaborate more about “rationalization of abortion, murder” etc. I’d love to hear your take on what and how it made you change.

 

[cath2lic4ever]

As embarrassing as it is, I once believed in reincarnation with my whole heart and soul. It seemed to answer a lot of my concerns.
It was introduced to me by trusted adults.

Yet, as I grew, and was able to compare this philosophy and it’s pagan religious origins with Christianity, I realized it not only didn’t hold water, it was a stupid and dangerous belief that rationalizes many grave evils.

It allows rationalization of abortion, murder, stealing, greed,envy, etc. Also, if we are supposed to be improving as time goes along, we are really doing a poor job of it. We’re getting worse and worse. With the bad karma being made, it should take the majority of us billions of reincarnations to catch up to… who? The only good person was Jesus, and even His relatives needed grace to persevere. Listen to Him. Buddah was a good guy, but, he never claimed to have all the answers. I am glad God absorbed my evil into His infinite Mercy, and that I don’t have to. I’d be a flea for a billion years. I never bought into the transmigration thing. How could a soul go back and forth from being insensient, to irrational, to rational, and so on. You should study logic, my friend.

Please give it more thought, pHaze and kyria. It really is a childish belief. And, keep in mind, the kind of people who viciously attacked and killed those people in India have that belief. It is diabolical in origin. Don’t be dupes.

kinda weird. same experience i had during my teen age years. even believed that jim morrison’s (the doors) soul got into me …i’m serious and embarrassed when i think about it now. i even witnessed a budhist chant with friends that are into it using a scroll. truly a childish belief that can lead to dire consequences. pray to GOD and ask our blessed mother for intercession. GOD bless & prayers to all!

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Hi

Ok. Let’s try a slightly different tack.

From what I understand of reincarnation, when you die you either go to heaven, or come back to earth because you screwed up and need to try again.

So, if that is true - why did Jesus need to go to hell, sheol, to release those held there until His triumph? Why didn’t they return to earth for another chance to straighten out what they had done wrong - obviously they weren’t “Good” enough to go directly to heaven?

Second - what need would there be for Jesus in the first place if we could ‘work’ our way into heaven? Because that is exactly, in my opinion, what reincarnation is proposing - we can work our way into heaven if we work at it long enough.

Third - how many chances at it do we get? Since God gave us the Bible, filled with everything else we need to know - show me where it is written how many chances we get at this. Matter of fact - can you show me where it is even a possibility?

Can you answer these questions?

Peace

John

 

[Ceil-1]

That’s kind of funny. You must have really liked The Doors.

Bear in mind that the 70’s had a lot of psychic fairs, astrology, Edgar Cayce, divination, astral projection, etc, people were into that stuff. It was the fad. I believe that is one of the reasons we are such a mess today, inviting occult influences into our very homes. I have even heard that seemingly innocent science fiction has origins in the occult and promotes a godless society.

Well, if one believes in reincarnation, what is the worst that will happen to us for what we do? A couple of difficult lifetimes? Take abortion, or, murder. What is the worst consequence? That we come back to life and get murdered ourselves? Does that seem a fitting response to denying someone their right to life? And, what of the families of those wronged. There’s justice owed to each of them them, and the negatives brought about to them. Stealing, the same thing. What about the slaves who were removed from their homes and families, and brutalized and maimed, etc, etc. The orphaned children, whose lives took a bad turn when they would otherwise have lived well? What modern lifestyle could compensate for all the horrible injustice perpetuated for generations by one act.

When is a soul put into a body? At conception? After 6 weeks?
Does a newborn baby have a soul? The pagans had their own answers for each of these things. The new age occult hodge podge leaves these things unanswered. There’s a reason the barbarians were so easily converted, you know. They knew a good thing when they heard it. They desired order, justice and charity. No one had ever heard of a hospital where people took care of sick people they didn’t even know before Christianity came along. If your family didn’t take care of you, you died like a dog, in the street. Just like they do in pagan cultures now. Even in Islamic countries widows starve to death because there is no one to care for them. Such a thing is unfathomable to a Christian society.

We are spolied, here in this country and in Europe. We have such a narrow point of view. I learned this as a nurse, meeting different people from different places, backgrounds, philosophies. Everything is not equal. What you need is a little experience to put things into perspective. Search out the best of things, not just what looks interesting.

2 Timothy 4:3: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

 

[GailMac]

Dear Phaze - Glad you like my humor. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought a person could be reincarnated as an object or even an animal! Perhaps I’ve been misinstructed aobut the nature of the idea of reincarnation.

Personally I wonder why you would want to believe this rather than contemplate Heaven and being with God loving Him perfectly for all of eternity…

Peace,

Gail

 

[EmeraldWings]

Ok, let me explain this in a different way to you,

when Adam and Eve were first created, they were meant to live forever, body and soul, immortal,
but when they sinned, they were punished with many things, one of which being death,
our body and soul are *meant *to be together forever, but because of sin, they are separated by death,

if we make it to heaven, we are to be reunited with our bodies at the end of time, but then it will be perfect, and our soul will be in control, instead of how our body is in control now.

because of this, reincarnation is not possible, we are meant to be with our body forever, we are incomplete without it, and you cannot take on another body because your soul is one in the same *with *your body,

if death is the penalty of sin, then what makes you think that God would take that away? death is the end of life, that is a dogma of faith, so to believe in the reincarnation of souls is a heresy, because it contradicts the dogma of death being the end of life.

i think i want to go back and answer your first question more specifically…

---

“Does that make me not Catholic? I was born a roman catholic. I had the sacraments of baptism, communion, penance and confirmation. How can you tell me that my soul will not be reborn again.”***

it does not necessarily make you not a catholic, but it can,
i’m curious to know what really makes you believe in reincarnation, what happened and what have you researched or been told?

in your personal experience, are you so sure that you have not been fooled by the devil? he is very powerful, and very smart, he can make you feel things and see things, he can put ideas in your head and tell you exactly what you want to hear, because he knows you better then you know yourself,

it would do you better to abandon your ideas about reincarnation, because it does not change anything one way or the other, meaning that you should be living your life Gods way whether reincarnation is real or not,
but i think you risk more in believing in reincarnation because you risk being a heretic and going to hell, but if you do not believe in it and go on trying to live your life how you should, then what do you risk?

ok i guess that’s enough for now.

 

[GailMac]

Thank you Emerald wings! If he listens he doesn’t have to worry about becoming an eggplant either!

Peace,

Gail

 

[AIC]

pHaze (& Kyria)

If it is any consolation, I am in exactly the same position as you with regards to Catholic upbringing & thoughts on re-incarnation. There is an enormous wealth of truth in the Catholic faith (which is why I continue to practice and raise my daughter as a Catholic) but so too are there truths in other religions (mostly) leading to the One God. Does that mean I ‘believe’ in re-incarnation? Let’s just say that based on my experiences, research, and readings, I have great difficulty in ruling it out.

To answer the point on the mathematic “impossibility” of all the billions of souls currently existing…yes, possibly true if you are talking only about the current generation…do not forget about the regular cycle of cosmic catastrophe that (from time to time) brings utter devastation to Earth. Hence Atlantis, the pre-Great Flood (Noah) populations. Edgar Cayce (worth reading with an open mind) spoke of the souls of Atlanteans being incarnated around this time. Here is an excellent book pointing to irrefutable evidence of such destruction (you didn’t think Noah’s ark was a mere allegory did you?) Why was Atlantis destroyed? Did they completely lose the way and reject God?

On what the bible says or does not say about re-incarnation: People are human and though the books in the bible are to varying degrees inspired by God [surely great prophets like Isiah were more inspired than ‘lesser’ ones?], over the centuries the books have been mistranslated, edited, re-written or completely withdrawn [the book of Enoch, for example…see Elaine Pagels’ ‘Gnostic Bibles’ and Karen Armstrong’s ‘the bible’ for the fascinating story. Why not read a few of the Gnostic bibles themselves or the Essene Gospels of peace?]. Certainly, I have difficulty in accepting that some blatantly political ‘edits’ were inspired by God rather than made from human ego. The point is that (as with anything) both proponents and opponents of the Theory of reincarnation can point to different parts of the bible to ‘prove’ their case. The reference to Elijah/ John the Baptist is a perfect case in point.

If anything, believing in re-incarnation is more difficult in that [if you accept it] getting to heaven takes many life-times rather than the single lifetime that conventional christianity suggests. Re-incarnation requires that, over different lifetimes, you purify your soul to become ‘perfect’, as God is. Indeed, in Matthew 5:48, Jesus tells us quite clearly that we need to ‘be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect’. I would suggest perfection in a single lifetime is near impossible.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

On what the bible says or does not say about re-incarnation: People are human and though the books in the bible are to varying degrees inspired by God [surely great prophets like Isiah were more inspired than ‘lesser’ ones?], over the centuries the books have been mistranslated, edited, re-written or completely withdrawn [the book of Enoch, for example…see Elaine Pagels’ ‘Gnostic Bibles’ and Karen Armstrong’s ‘the bible’ for the fascinating story. Why not read a few of the Gnostic bibles themselves or the Essene Gospels of peace?]. Certainly, I have difficulty in accepting that some blatantly political ‘edits’ were inspired by God rather than made from human ego. The point is that (as with anything) both proponents and opponents of the Theory of reincarnation can point to different parts of the bible to ‘prove’ their case. The reference to Elijah/ John the Baptist is a perfect case in point.

The point being - ALL books of the Bible are inspired, equally I would contend…but the main point is - God neither deceives, nor can be deceived. God is not a liar, and promised that His Word would remain - if it were tampered with (which I don’t believe it was - at least until Luther came along. YET the True Scriptures were kept and distributed through HIS Church), the rest of us would not pay for it - but woe to the one who did it.

The spiritual decay of the Jews at that time is hardly something I would use to make a case - unless it was a case for what happens when you stray from the Truth. As for John the Baptist - he stated he was not Elijah, or the Messiah, or anyone else for that matter. It is possible they were asking about the Holiness of Elijah, or the Messiah, rather than the soul.

Also what purpose then, of Christ, if we get to heaven through re-incarnation? Why were the Saints and Prophets of the O.T. contained in hell until the resurrection?

Mat 27:52 the tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised.
Mat 27:53 After his resurrection, they came out of their tombs and went into the Holy City and appeared to many people.

If anything, believing in re-incarnation is more difficult in that [if you accept it] getting to heaven takes many life-times rather than the single lifetime that conventional christianity suggests. Re-incarnation requires that, over different lifetimes, you purify your soul to become ‘perfect’, as God is. Indeed, in Matthew 5:48, Jesus tells us quite clearly that we need to ‘be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect’. I would suggest perfection in a single lifetime is near impossible.

If there were any truth in re-incarnation, what reason would there be for hell then? Revelations states quite clearly

Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to their works.

So, how can the sea give up her dead, and Hell give up it’s dead - if all of those souls were bouncing from body to body? Do we then become an amalgam of all the bodies we occupied?

As for your quote in Matthew - we are made perfect through Sanctification through the Holy Spirit, and later, Purgatory. We are expected to be Merciful - as our Heavenly father is merciful - see the parallel here:

Mat 5:45 so that you will become children of your Father in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and the good, and he lets rain fall on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what great thing are you doing? Even the gentiles do the same, don’t they?
Mat 5:48 So be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Luk 6:32 "If you love those who love you, what thanks do you deserve? Why, even sinners love those who love them.
Luk 6:33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks do you deserve? Even sinners do that.
Luk 6:34 If you lend to those from whom you expect to get something back, what thanks do you deserve? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back what they lend.
Luk 6:35 Rather, love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, for he is kind to ungrateful and evil people.
Luk 6:36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."
Luk 6:37 "Stop judging, and you will never be judged. Stop condemning, and you will never be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Luk 6:38 Give, and it will be given to you. A large quantity, pressed together, shaken down, and running over will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use, you will be measured.

You shouldn’t take verses out of context. Perfection is something to aspire to - recognizing that it won’t happen here - which is why we have the Sacrament of reconciliation (confession). Which, in it’s rite - allows us to be Sanctified - as clean as we can become here on earth…the perfection expected by us - Purgatory will take care of the rest.

Peace

John

 

[EmeraldWings]

pHaze (& Kyria)

Indeed, in Matthew 5:48, Jesus tells us quite clearly that we need to ‘be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect’. I would suggest perfection in a single lifetime is near impossible.

i would suggest that that’s what purgatory is for.

not even most of the saints were perfect when they died, but they were obedient to God, they knew Him, loved Him, and served Him with all their heart, and that is why God was so pleased with them, they did their best and persevered, we are not asked to be perfect now, but just to reach for perfection.

Jesus tells us many things that are quite clear, but there is nothing He tells us that doesn’t have a great amount of depth to it as well.

 

[GailMac]

Has anyone ever been reincarnated as a plate of spam?

spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam…

Peace,

Gail