I believe Muhammad can Never be a prophet.

[Mosacked]

Because based on the records of prophets in the Torah, they are people who are

1 - Impeccable in character
2 - Always truthful & Never lies
3 - Never indulging in sexual activties
4 - Able to perform great miracles in public (eg. splitting the red sea)
5 - Able to receive God’s instruction directly with signs & wonders (eg. carved 10 commandments).

We all know that based on authoritative islamic hadiths, muhammad fulfilled NONE of the above. And we don’t have to quote the hadiths to show you since it can be found easily on the web.

And EVEN, if we insist against sensibilities to classify muhammad of islam as a prophet, why would anyone make him the greatest prophet when the the ‘lesser’ prophets had miraculous birth (Jesus), cured & saved the sick (Jesus), was always forgiving and is returning from the skies in the 2nd coming.

Would you call someone greater when he is factually rotting after failing to prove anointment and good character while the lesser ones who had miraculously birth, had an impeccable life and willing to sacrifice for others is returning from the sky in pomp & glory?

What’s the LOGIC ?

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[spn82756]

Because based on the records of prophets in the Torah, they are people who are

1 - Impeccable in character
2 - Always truthful & Never lies
3 - Never indulging in sexual activties
4 - Able to perform great miracles in public (eg. splitting the red sea)
5 - Able to receive God’s instruction directly with signs & wonders (eg. carved 10 commandments).

We all know that based on authoritative islamic hadiths, muhammad fulfilled NONE of the above. And we don’t have to quote the hadiths to show you since it can be found easily on the web.

And EVEN, if we insist against sensibilities to classify muhammad of islam as a prophet, why would anyone make him the greatest prophet when the the ‘lesser’ prophets had miraculous birth (Jesus), cured & saved the sick (Jesus), was always forgiving and is returning from the skies in the 2nd coming.

Would you call someone greater when he is factually rotting after failing to prove anointment and good character while the lesser ones who had miraculously birth, had an impeccable life and willing to sacrifice for others is returning from the sky in pomp & glory?

What’s the LOGIC ?

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

Not a prophet of God.

 

[benidict]

Because based on the records of prophets in the Torah, they are people who are

1 - Impeccable in character
2 - Always truthful & Never lies
3 - Never indulging in sexual activties
4 - Able to perform great miracles in public (eg. splitting the red sea)
5 - Able to receive God’s instruction directly with signs & wonders (eg. carved 10 commandments).

We all know that based on authoritative islamic hadiths, muhammad fulfilled NONE of the above. And we don’t have to quote the hadiths to show you since it can be found easily on the web.

And EVEN, if we insist against sensibilities to classify muhammad of islam as a prophet, why would anyone make him the greatest prophet when the the ‘lesser’ prophets had miraculous birth (Jesus), cured & saved the sick (Jesus), was always forgiving and is returning from the skies in the 2nd coming.

Would you call someone greater when he is factually rotting after failing to prove anointment and good character while the lesser ones who had miraculously birth, had an impeccable life and willing to sacrifice for others is returning from the sky in pomp & glory?

What’s the LOGIC ?

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

yeah. the prophet who parted the red sea did engage in sexual activity. murdered an egyptian, divorced and remarried, or was a polygamist. just for once mosacked can you please do some research before going on a tangent? oh and lets not forget hosea, who was commanded by God to marry a prostitute. hmmm. peace

 

[Mosacked]

yeah. the prophet who parted the red sea did engage in sexual activity. murdered an egyptian, divorced and remarried, or was a polygamist. just for once mosacked can you please do some research before going on a tangent? that would be a start. thank you… Peace

A fool knows not when his damnation cometh.

Numbers 12 -1 Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because of the Cushite woman he married (for he had married a Cushite woman). 2 They said, “Does the LORD speak only through Moses? Does He not also speak through us?” And the LORD heard. 3 Moses was a very humble man, more so than any man on the face of the earth.

4 Suddenly the LORD said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, "You three come out to the tent of meeting." So the three of them went out. 5 Then the LORD descended in a pillar of cloud, stood at the entrance to the tent, and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them came forward, 6 He said:

"Listen to what I say:

If there is a prophet among you from the LORD,

I make Myself known to him in a vision;

I speak with him in a dream.

7 Not so with My servant Moses;

he is faithful in all My household.

8 I speak with him directly,

openly, and not in riddles;

he sees the form of the LORD.

**So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses?**" 9 The LORD's anger burned against them, and He left.

10 As the cloud moved away from the tent, Miriam's [skin] suddenly became diseased, as [white] as snow. When Aaron turned toward her, he saw that she was diseased 11 and said to Moses, "My lord, please don't hold against us this sin we have so foolishly committed. 12 Please don't let her be like a dead [baby] whose flesh is half eaten away when he comes out of his mother's womb."

When you read this post, may the will of God be done.

 

[benidict]

A fool knows not when his damnation cometh.

Numbers 12 -1 Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because of the Cushite woman he married (for he had married a Cushite woman). 2 They said, “Does the LORD speak only through Moses? Does He not also speak through us?” And the LORD heard. 3 Moses was a very humble man, more so than any man on the face of the earth.

4 Suddenly the LORD said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, "You three come out to the tent of meeting." So the three of them went out. 5 Then the LORD descended in a pillar of cloud, stood at the entrance to the tent, and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them came forward, 6 He said:

"Listen to what I say:

If there is a prophet among you from the LORD,

I make Myself known to him in a vision;

I speak with him in a dream.

7 Not so with My servant Moses;

he is faithful in all My household.

8 I speak with him directly,

openly, and not in riddles;

he sees the form of the LORD.

**So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses?**" 9 The LORD's anger burned against them, and He left.

10 As the cloud moved away from the tent, Miriam's [skin] suddenly became diseased, as [white] as snow. When Aaron turned toward her, he saw that she was diseased 11 and said to Moses, "My lord, please don't hold against us this sin we have so foolishly committed. 12 Please don't let her be like a dead [baby] whose flesh is half eaten away when he comes out of his mother's womb."

so whats your point mosacked? all the things you said a prophet doesnt do, some did. id say many of us would agree that mohammed was no prophet. if he was. it was after the order of balaam. be that as it may. the test you give for a prophet, is not biblical at all. the test of a prophet biblically speaking, is that the prophet must be correct 100% of the time. his/her marrital status or if they are engaging in sexual activity or not. has no bearing on if they are a prophet. and some of them had some rough edges about them. peace

 

[elvisman]

A fool knows not when his damnation cometh.

Numbers 12 -1 Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because of the Cushite woman he married (for he had married a Cushite woman). 2 They said, “Does the LORD speak only through Moses? Does He not also speak through us?” And the LORD heard. 3 Moses was a very humble man, more so than any man on the face of the earth.

4 Suddenly the LORD said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “You three come out to the tent of meeting.” So the three of them went out. 5 Then the LORD descended in a pillar of cloud, stood at the entrance to the tent, and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them came forward, 6 He said:
"Listen to what I say:
If there is a prophet among you from the LORD,
I make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak with him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses;
he is faithful in all My household.
8 I speak with him directly,
openly, and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.

So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses?" 9 The LORD’s anger burned against them, and He left.

10 As the cloud moved away from the tent, Miriam’s [skin] suddenly became diseased, as [white] as snow. When Aaron turned toward her, he saw that she was diseased 11 and said to Moses, “My lord, please don’t hold against us this sin we have so foolishly committed. 12 Please don’t let her be like a dead [baby] whose flesh is half eaten away when he comes out of his mother’s womb.”
When you read this post, may the will of God be done.

What on earth does this have to do with benidict’s post?

You offered nothing to the conversation and simply danced around the issue.

 

[Mosacked]

What on earth does this have to do with benidict’s post?

You offered nothing to the conversation and simply danced around the issue.

One blind man asks for another why the wind blows in their faces. And both wonders in confused amazement.

If one needs to explain everything in such simple terms, the listener apparently has a problem in understanding simple instructions. How then can such a person even be a sheep? I have no time for those outside the flock.

Understand if you will, if you will not, I move on with or without your companionship.

.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

yeah. the prophet who parted the red sea did engage in sexual activity. murdered an egyptian, divorced and remarried, or was a polygamist. just for once mosacked can you please do some research before going on a tangent? oh and lets not forget hosea, who was commanded by God to marry a prostitute. hmmm. peace

How many prophesies did we get from David who was and adulterer and murder? that said I agree that Mohamed was no prophet.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Because based on the records of prophets in the Torah, they are people who are

1 - Impeccable in character
2 - Always truthful & Never lies
3 - Never indulging in sexual activties
4 - Able to perform great miracles in public (eg. splitting the red sea)
5 - Able to receive God’s instruction directly with signs & wonders (eg. carved 10 commandments).

We all know that based on authoritative islamic hadiths, muhammad fulfilled NONE of the above. And we don’t have to quote the hadiths to show you since it can be found easily on the web.

And EVEN, if we insist against sensibilities to classify muhammad of islam as a prophet, why would anyone make him the greatest prophet when the the ‘lesser’ prophets had miraculous birth (Jesus), cured & saved the sick (Jesus), was always forgiving and is returning from the skies in the 2nd coming.

Would you call someone greater when he is factually rotting after failing to prove anointment and good character while the lesser ones who had miraculously birth, had an impeccable life and willing to sacrifice for others is returning from the sky in pomp & glory?

What’s the LOGIC ?

As Benedict pointed out, none of the prophets in the OT were far from perfect men. The only perfect Man was the Son of Man, Jesus Christ. Moses had his faults, and his loss of temper with the stone was what kept him from the holy land. Elijah at one point felt so isolated he wanted God to kill him. King David committed many faults, and his psalms are full of accounts by people who feel isolated from God, desolate, or fearful of their salvation. Even Peter, one of the most trusted disciples, denied Christ three times, and all the apostles fled Christ save John who came back later.

The importance, however, is that Islam denies all this. The Quran’s account of the Fall of Man really isn’t much of a fall, and in fact has Satan admitting to God that he won’t be able to touch God’s prophets and messengers. It is believed that all the faithful messengers of God had no flaws or errors, and any thoughts that they did (especially non-prophets such as Lot) were added later to blaspheme their name. Therefore when you tell a Muslim about the Psalmist who at times felt isolated from God, or you quote Christ’s declaration from the cross, “My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?”, they don’t understand it. To them, prophets and messengers never feel this way because they are, in a way, spiritual supermen with absolutely no flaws whatsoever.

 

[Mosacked]

As Benedict pointed out, none of the prophets in the OT were far from perfect men. The only perfect Man was the Son of Man, Jesus Christ. Moses had his faults, and his loss of temper with the stone was what kept him from the holy land. Elijah at one point felt so isolated he wanted God to kill him. King David committed many faults, and his psalms are full of accounts by people who feel isolated from God, desolate, or fearful of their salvation. Even Peter, one of the most trusted disciples, denied Christ three times, and all the apostles fled Christ save John who came back later.

The importance, however, is that Islam denies all this. The Quran’s account of the Fall of Man really isn’t much of a fall, and in fact has Satan admitting to God that he won’t be able to touch God’s prophets and messengers. It is believed that all the faithful messengers of God had no flaws or errors, and any thoughts that they did (especially non-prophets such as Lot) were added later to blaspheme their name. Therefore when you tell a Muslim about the Psalmist who at times felt isolated from God, or you quote Christ’s declaration from the cross, “My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?”, they don’t understand it. To them, prophets and messengers never feel this way because they are, in a way, spiritual supermen with absolutely no flaws whatsoever.

BW, I am seriously appalled at the lack of discernment and understanding.

If it is not already obvious, the ‘failures’ as you call them had been immediately put right by God right there and then.

When Moses hit the stone, God made it very clear that he LOST his entry ticket into Canaan.

When Elijah felt weak, God strengthened him and he moved on until such time that God decided it is time for Elijah to depart.

When Peter denied knowing Christ, the Spirit admonished him and he awoke and turned from his failures subsequently dying a martyr.

Apostles and Prophets alike are impeccable in character…or at least at the point of calling. Should they start to falter, God makes it very clear and He either punishes them immediately, corrects them in their thinking (if they did not sin) or removes them from the world to prevent them from totally failing (thank God for His Grace).

And it is obvious that Muhammad had NONE of these traits.

What is surprising to me is that some people can actually claim credibility for a crook because the judge had pinched his mother’s food. What these people are doing is justifying shames through the imperfection of great men. And that itself is an act of SHAMEFUL APOSTASY that does nothing for the upholding of truth. Its head rears in the direction of corruption and of eternal damnation.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Because based on the records of prophets in the Torah, they are people who are

1 - Impeccable in character
2 - Always truthful & Never lies
3 - Never indulging in sexual activties
4 - Able to perform great miracles in public (eg. splitting the red sea)
5 - Able to receive God’s instruction directly with signs & wonders (eg. carved 10 commandments).

We all know that based on authoritative islamic hadiths, muhammad fulfilled NONE of the above. And we don’t have to quote the hadiths to show you since it can be found easily on the web.

And EVEN, if we insist against sensibilities to classify muhammad of islam as a prophet, why would anyone make him the greatest prophet when the the ‘lesser’ prophets had miraculous birth (Jesus), cured & saved the sick (Jesus), was always forgiving and is returning from the skies in the 2nd coming.

Would you call someone greater when he is factually rotting after failing to prove anointment and good character while the lesser ones who had miraculously birth, had an impeccable life and willing to sacrifice for others is returning from the sky in pomp & glory?

What’s the LOGIC ?

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

Logic tells you this is not a rational belief.

So, now what will you do?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

BW, I am seriously appalled at the lack of discernment and understanding.

If it is not already obvious, the ‘failures’ as you call them had been immediately put right by God right there and then.

When Moses hit the stone, God made it very clear that he LOST his entry ticket into Canaan.

When Elijah felt weak, God strengthened him and he moved on until such time that God decided it is time for Elijah to depart.

When Peter denied knowing Christ, the Spirit admonished him and he awoke and turned from his failures subsequently dying a martyr.

I agree that God tended to make matters right - nonetheless, they had those faults at one point or another. David and Peter repented, yes, but the fact is they had something to repent of. On this matter, you and I agree, and I do not understand why you are attempting to argue with me on the matter.

My point in discussing the faults of past prophets and apostles was not to judge these men, for I believe them all to have been godly men for one reason or another, but to point out that your argument against Islam will prove futile because of an important distinction between spiritual men in Christianity (and Judaism for that matter) and spiritual men within Islam. For Christians, spiritual men are still flawed men in one way or another, and the only perfect man is Christ - that’s where you’re coming from. To Muslims, however, all spiritual leaders are perfect and protected by God from fault at birth, and therefore were all just as clean from sin as Jesus. Therefore to say that Mohammad had flaws may or may not matter at all with them - they will either argue that all prophets are perfect, or they’ll point out personal flaws in other prophets, depending on their mindset. What you must do is first address this presupposition within the Muslim mind and work with it to open dialogue.

And it is obvious that Muhammad had NONE of these traits.

What is surprising to me is that some people can actually claim credibility for a crook because the judge had pinched his mother’s food. What these people are doing is justifying shames through the imperfection of great men. And that itself is an act of SHAMEFUL APOSTASY that does nothing for the upholding of truth. Its head rears in the direction of corruption and of eternal damnation.

Actually, I think open and frank discussion does much to edify the people of God, and doesn’t lead to shameful apostasy or eternal damnation (which are pretty harsh terms). No one here is trying to justify a crook or justify shames “through the imperfection of great men.” Rather, we are attempting to point out that a simplified argument may not hold up against a Muslim mindset. If you wish to enter dialogue with a Muslim, you must speak to him in the mindset of a Muslim, meaning you understand how he thinks and reasons.

 

[Mosacked]

I agree that God tended to make matters right - nonetheless, they had those faults at one point or another. David and Peter repented, yes, but the fact is they had something to repent of. On this matter, you and I agree, and I do not understand why you are attempting to argue with me on the matter.

My point in discussing the faults of past prophets and apostles was not to judge these men, for I believe them all to have been godly men for one reason or another, but to point out that your argument against Islam will prove futile because of an important distinction between spiritual men in Christianity (and Judaism for that matter) and spiritual men within Islam. For Christians, spiritual men are still flawed men in one way or another, and the only perfect man is Christ - that’s where you’re coming from. To Muslims, however, all spiritual leaders are perfect and protected by God from fault at birth, and therefore were all just as clean from sin as Jesus. Therefore to say that Mohammad had flaws may or may not matter at all with them - they will either argue that all prophets are perfect, or they’ll point out personal flaws in other prophets, depending on their mindset. What you must do is first address this presupposition within the Muslim mind and work with it to open dialogue.

Actually, I think open and frank discussion does much to edify the people of God, and doesn’t lead to shameful apostasy or eternal damnation (which are pretty harsh terms). No one here is trying to justify a crook or justify shames “through the imperfection of great men.” Rather, we are attempting to point out that a simplified argument may not hold up against a Muslim mindset. If you wish to enter dialogue with a Muslim, you must speak to him in the mindset of a Muslim, meaning you understand how he thinks and reasons.

To agree with the muslims that there is no ‘standard’ to begin with since all of their ‘prophets’ are perfect to begin with is as good as saying all food sprayed on the toilet floor is edible since all food is for consumption.

You are asking that I understand such a nonsensical approach (their presupposition) and then tell them they are wrong because not all food is edible (since they accuse us even that the food we put in our mouths ‘inevitably’ has some bacteria in them) therefore we have no right to accuse them of eating filth.

This is an approach that leads to nowhere.

It is undeniable that these great men were punished very quickly for their sins, while some were removed soon after, bearing in mind that these great men only had seemingly very minor faults. Eg ‘getting tired’ – Elijah, ‘hitting instead of speaking’ – Moses.

What I want to stress is that God has VERY HIGH STANDARDS. If one cannot even approach the topic of sanctity and holiness based on the righteousness of these great men, but instead lower down to their level of ‘moral anarchy’, then the path of light is not just distant, it is totally absent.

Let me give you an example, a man is moving straight and following a leader, but he sees another moving in a big circle. So he tells a third, let’s join in his circle and tell him he’s going in circles because if you tell him you’re going straight he will tell you that all men goes in straight circles. Which is better? To move on, to tell him that he’s going in circles and leave him to think about it, or join him in the circle and tell him ‘hey, don’t worry some of our guys also move in circles too!’ .

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

To agree with the muslims that there is no ‘standard’ to begin with since all of their ‘prophets’ are perfect to begin with is as good as saying all food sprayed on the toilet floor is edible since all food is for consumption.

That’s not at all what I said. That’s a misrepresentation. I never said there wasn’t a “standard,” but that to argue prophets had to be perfect or have no personal flaws was an easily refutable argument from Christianity’s own scriptures. Furthermore, Muslims don’t argue that “there is no standard,” because obviously they have a standard if they think the prophets were all perfect and identify evils done by them in the OT as being evils.

You are asking that I understand such a nonsensical approach (their presupposition) and then tell them they are wrong because not all food is edible (since they accuse us even that the food we put in our mouths ‘inevitably’ has some bacteria in them) therefore we have no right to accuse them of eating filth.

Again, that’s not what I was arguing. I’m not justifying the Muslim position by that approach, but asking that we take in mind what a Muslim believes when we’re speaking to them. If our goal is not to work with the Muslim mindset to bring a Muslim to Christ, then we’re doing nothing except preaching to the choir. We’re no better than the Muslims who go into the mosque and brag about how Christians worship three gods.

What I want to stress is that God has VERY HIGH STANDARDS. If one cannot even approach the topic of sanctity and holiness based on the righteousness of these great men, but instead lower down to their level of ‘moral anarchy’, then the path of light is not just distant, it is totally absent.

No one is arguing moral anarchy. And yes, God has very high standards…which is why “no one is justified by the law in the sight of God” (Gal 3:11) and “there is none righteous, no, not one” (Rom 3:10). All men are flawed. Therefore, to argue that prophets have to be spiritual supermen…well, Muslims would agree with your point.

Let me give you an example, a man is moving straight and following a leader, but he sees another moving in a big circle. So he tells a third, let’s join in his circle and tell him he’s going in circles because if you tell him you’re going straight he will tell you that all men goes in straight circles. Which is better? To move on, to tell him that he’s going in circles and leave him to think about it, or join him in the circle and tell him ‘hey, don’t worry some of our guys also move in circles too!’ .

…what?

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

Once again, I have to ask, as I did in another thread, why can’t you just put that link in your signature instead of continually posting it? It makes much more sense and would save you time copying and pasting it.

 

[Mosacked]

That’s not at all what I said. That’s a misrepresentation. I never said there wasn’t a “standard,” but that to argue prophets had to be perfect or have no personal flaws was an easily refutable argument from Christianity’s own scriptures. Furthermore, Muslims don’t argue that “there is no standard,” because obviously they have a standard if they think the prophets were all perfect and identify evils done by them in the OT as being evils.

Again, that’s not what I was arguing. I’m not justifying the Muslim position by that approach, but asking that we take in mind what a Muslim believes when we’re speaking to them. If our goal is not to work with the Muslim mindset to bring a Muslim to Christ, then we’re doing nothing except preaching to the choir. We’re no better than the Muslims who go into the mosque and brag about how Christians worship three gods.

No one is arguing moral anarchy. And yes, God has very high standards…which is why “no one is justified by the law in the sight of God” (Gal 3:11) and “there is none righteous, no, not one” (Rom 3:10). All men are flawed. Therefore, to argue that prophets have to be spiritual supermen…well, Muslims would agree with your point.

…what?

Once again, I have to ask, as I did in another thread, why can’t you just put that link in your signature instead of continually posting it? It makes much more sense and would save you time copying and pasting it.

The point is simple. Any attempt, made at blowing up such ‘minor faults’ of these great jewish & christian prophets (who by the way have been punished harshly for these ‘hiccups’ in their faith) against the incomparably horrendous shames committed by islam’s prophet only shows the shameful agenda of the proposer.

They are endeavors to justify shames in the shadow of human weakness. An Act capable of only by the Devil.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Mosacked]

The point is simple. Any attempt, made at blowing up such ‘minor faults’ of these great jewish & christian prophets (who by the way have been punished harshly for these ‘hiccups’ in their faith) against the incomparably horrendous shames committed by islam’s prophet only shows the shameful agenda of the proposer.

They are endeavors to justify shames in the shadow of human weakness. An Act capable of only by the Devil.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

By the way BW, are you aware that in demonic exorcisms, the demons often hisses and exposes the exorciser for his/her sins? Counter-challenging him/her for their own faults only to justify its presence in the host?

Acts of justifying shames are not only sinful, it is the very root of Satanism.

.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

The point is simple. Any attempt, made at blowing up such ‘minor faults’ of these great jewish & christian prophets (who by the way have been punished harshly for these ‘hiccups’ in their faith) against the incomparably horrendous shames committed by islam’s prophet only shows the shameful agenda of the proposer.

They are endeavors to justify shames in the shadow of human weakness. An Act capable of only by the Devil.

Having a man killed and taking his wife is hardly a “minor fault” - that’s breaking two of the ten commandments right there, and we know only breaking one is bad enough. Deliberately killing another human being yourself is also hardly a “minor fault.” Yes, many of them were punished for it or had to repent, but that’s the thing - they had to repent of something. Therefore to argue that a prophet has to lead an impeccable life is somewhat false. That doesn’t mean they were excused, but the argument can be self-refuting. No one here is saying the prophets of old were evil, only that the argument has some slight flaws. It was also pointed out that in Islam, all prophets are perfect, including Mohammad - not that the argument is valid, but that is a line of thinking you must crack first before accusing Mohammad of anything. One way could be what you suggested, which was to show the faults of the old prophets but they repented or God treated them justly for it, whereas nothing is seen in the case of Mohammad. A comparison could even be made between the deeds of the OT prophets and the deeds of Mohammad, and God’s (or Allah’s) reaction to both. These are simply suggestions.

As for your last remark, I can say nothing. If I am the devil, God will judge me rightly. If I am not, He will judge you rightly.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

Uh, again…why not just put it in your sig? It makes more sense. Just a suggestion - I linked to my blog in my sig.

 

[Mosacked]

Having a man killed and taking his wife is hardly a “minor fault” - that’s breaking two of the ten commandments right there, and we know only breaking one is bad enough. Deliberately killing another human being yourself is also hardly a “minor fault.” Yes, many of them were punished for it or had to repent, but that’s the thing - they had to repent of something. Therefore to argue that a prophet has to lead an impeccable life is somewhat false. That doesn’t mean they were excused, but the argument can be self-refuting. No one here is saying the prophets of old were evil, only that the argument has some slight flaws. It was also pointed out that in Islam, all prophets are perfect, including Mohammad - not that the argument is valid, but that is a line of thinking you must crack first before accusing Mohammad of anything. One way could be what you suggested, which was to show the faults of the old prophets but they repented or God treated them justly for it, whereas nothing is seen in the case of Mohammad. A comparison could even be made between the deeds of the OT prophets and the deeds of Mohammad, and God’s (or Allah’s) reaction to both. These are simply suggestions.

As for your last remark, I can say nothing. If I am the devil, God will judge me rightly. If I am not, He will judge you rightly.

Uh, again…why not just put it in your sig? It makes more sense. Just a suggestion - I linked to my blog in my sig.

Hardly accurate BW, these men (kill and take their wives???) who you refer to are not even called prophets in the Bible. The Bible does not call such men prophets. So, let’s not defend ourselves with lies. Were you ever a muslim or really a muslim? Cos your understanding of the idiosyncracies in islam seem pretty foundational in your argument.

I have nothing against you personally, merely uncomfortable with the untruth that proceedth from your mouth. And yes, I am aware that I am capable of such untruth in my moments of weakness, still that does not warrant your attempts in justifying shames for muhammad.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Hardly accurate BW, these men (kill and take their wives???) who you refer to are not even called prophets in the Bible.

I was referring to King David, who did prophesy on the coming of the Messiah in his psalms, and who did, yes, have a man killed and took his wife. That’s not a “lie” as you call it, but a biblical truth. Yes, he did receive punishment for it and repented, but the fact is he was just as flawed as everyone else. This isn’t a fault on his part as we are all born into the sinful nature of the Fall, however it is something you cannot deny.

Were you ever a muslim or really a muslim? Cos your understanding of the idiosyncracies in islam seem pretty foundational in your argument.

I understand the Islamic viewpoint, which I use in my dialogue with Muslims to try to break some ground. Actually, quite ironically, it seems that the Muslim mindset is present in your argument. You demand that a prophet be perfect, which is what Islam argues all their prophets are.

The funny thing is if Elijah, Moses, Abraham, David, Isaiah, etc were here, they would all agree with me that they were far from perfect men. However, that doesn’t deny their greatness. These men are closer to God now than I could ever hope to be. That doesn’t mean they lived absolutely perfect lives - only Christ did. At the same time, that’s a wonderful thing - it shows that God can even use sinners like us to get the job done. That’s the great contrast between Christianity and Islam and their view of the prophets.

I have nothing against you personally, merely uncomfortable with the untruth that proceedth from your mouth. And yes, I am aware that I am capable of such untruth in my moments of weakness, still that does not warrant your attempts in justifying shames for muhammad.

I’m not justifying Mohammad! Myself and others have made that clear! No one here is trying to justify him, only pointing out problems in the argumentation presented.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

Once again, I have to ask, why not just put that in your sig. I’m a little alarmed that you seem to keep avoiding this question.

 

[Nine_Two]

Hardly accurate BW, these men (kill and take their wives???) who you refer to are not even called prophets in the Bible. The Bible does not call such men prophets. So, let’s not defend ourselves with lies. Were you ever a muslim or really a muslim? Cos your understanding of the idiosyncracies in islam seem pretty foundational in your argument.

Muslims do call these men prophets, and if you take an argument to someone (and aren’t just issueing apologetics), you have to do so on their terms, which in this case just makes things easier. I’m not sure why you want to turn an argument with muslims into something harder than it needs to be.

I have nothing against you personally, merely uncomfortable with the untruth that proceedth from your mouth. And yes, I am aware that I am capable of such untruth in my moments of weakness, still that does not warrant your attempts in justifying shames for muhammad.

.

You’re capable of untruth? You’ve stated before that as long as untruth sways an argument in your favour you’re all for it, going so far as to libel those who disagree with such tactics (By the way, that’s exactly what Devil means - slanderer). Whatever your personal feelings toward members of this forum, the speed with which you resort to personal insults is astounding. Especially when the poster in question is simply trying to explain the Muslim worldview, and not defend it as correct.

In fact you shouldn’t even be arguing with him on this.