I believe this solves the Problem of Original Sin and theistic evolutio and the pre-human presence of death

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Fide_Roma

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Tell me what you think:

Synopsis:

God exists.
God creates.
God is timeless, therefore his choice to create is coequal with his existence.
i.e. all times are “now” and all of his actions are “now.”
God creates all things in a single instant.
Assuming the big bang happened, God creates angels at the moment he creates
the Matter for the big bang.
While God initiates the action of the big bang, he assigns to each angel
a special process or function of creation, from cosmic forces, to minute
ones (A la Thomas Aquinas).
Therefore Angels are not the creators of the cosmos, but they direct forces
already set in motion.

Just before the Angels began their work, God revealed to them
(in order to test confirm them in Grace) his plan to bring about Man as the pinnacle of
Creation. Lucifer, to whom had been given the charge of “matter and the forms of matter”
rebelled, Apalled that God would subject himself to becoming a “fleshling.” Not to mention
that ultimately mankind would be exalted above the Angels, who in the end would serve Man.
Or some kind of revelation along these or similar lines.
So Lucifer rebelled against God, appealing to the other Angel’s pride, and he elicited
from 1/3 of them a resounding “We will not serve!”

So, God cast them to the earth, and began the work of creation through the mediation of
other Angels. Perhaps Michael, perhaps Gabriel, who knows.
However, the malcontent Lucifer and his cohorts began the plan of a spoiled child:
“We will harm him by harming those he loves!” With this, he began to work counter
to the efforts of the other Angels. Where they shaped grace, he brought discord.
Where they wrought harmony, he brought dissonance. He began to marr and disfigure
the faces of the creation. But the wisdom of God prevailed and he taught the Angels how to
Work with these changes the Luciferians brought and bring good and balance out of
all things: He turned the tension of Lucifer into passing notes for a beautiful melody
of balance. Yet all was not as God wanted.

Over the passing of untold millions of years, the shaping of our Earth came about: God creating,
the angels directing and counter-directing the efforts of Lucifer. Many beasts, great and small
Reptilian and mammal, bird and fish have come and gone. When the fullness of time came, God took
two pairs of humanoid hominids and they were given souls.*** And modern humanity was born. They
were brought to a beautiful place and they were given dominion over it. They were blameless before
God and yet they were still subject to the physical death Lucifer’s envy had brought to the world
(We know this, because the Bible says that the reason that man was kicked out of the garden was that
he may eat of the tree of life and live in sin forever. So death was already in the background
in the Biblical account) God offered them a choice: Obey me, and as heads of the creation you will
redeem the creation from Satan and death will be no more. The first Adam was to accomplish the
redemption of Nature due to his high priestly and kingly role as head of all the creatures of
earth. He WOULD have been able to do this because the earthly creation was not entrenched in its
own guilt, but in slavery to the devil and the death his guilt brought. SO Adam would
have ontologically been capable of rendering a salvific act of obedience because he would not be
atoning for PERSONAL HUMAN GUILT, but offering an ontological sacrifice of his own will on behalf
of creation to God: As the face of creation, he would offer its destiny to God- The freedom of
obedience, or the ever-more agrravated condition of Sin, not only in nature but now in human
souls.Unfortunately, Adam, through deception chose evil. And the humanity that would have
restored creation, lost its divine right to sovreignty over the creatures of earth and became
a slave to the World, Flesh and the Devil.

…And from there we know the rest as the Catholic
Church has revealed it. Christ as God-Man has restored us to God as God, and in him we find the
fullness of our being. This is one reason why Jesus is called the “Second Adam.” He worked
the redemption Adam could not; Firstly of our souls, and then in time creation itself will be all
God intended it to be.

In time I will footnote and reference my claims. They are first biblical, then scientific, and then based on the common claims of various cultures.
 
Tell me what you think:

Synopsis:

God exists.
God creates.
God is timeless, therefore his choice to create is coequal with his existence.
i.e. all times are “now” and all of his actions are “now.”
God creates all things in a single instant.
Assuming the big bang happened, God creates angels at the moment he creates
the Matter for the big bang.
While God initiates the action of the big bang, he assigns to each angel
a special process or function of creation, from cosmic forces, to minute
ones (A la Thomas Aquinas).
Therefore Angels are not the creators of the cosmos, but they direct forces
already set in motion.

Just before the Angels began their work, God revealed to them
(in order to test confirm them in Grace) his plan to bring about Man as the pinnacle of
Creation. Lucifer, to whom had been given the charge of “matter and the forms of matter”
rebelled, Apalled that God would subject himself to becoming a “fleshling.” Not to mention
that ultimately mankind would be exalted above the Angels, who in the end would serve Man.
Or some kind of revelation along these or similar lines.
So Lucifer rebelled against God, appealing to the other Angel’s pride, and he elicited
from 1/3 of them a resounding “We will not serve!”

So, God cast them to the earth, and began the work of creation through the mediation of
other Angels. Perhaps Michael, perhaps Gabriel, who knows.
However, the malcontent Lucifer and his cohorts began the plan of a spoiled child:
“We will harm him by harming those he loves!” With this, he began to work counter
to the efforts of the other Angels. Where they shaped grace, he brought discord.
Where they wrought harmony, he brought dissonance. He began to marr and disfigure
the faces of the creation. But the wisdom of God prevailed and he taught the Angels how to
Work with these changes the Luciferians brought and bring good and balance out of
all things: He turned the tension of Lucifer into passing notes for a beautiful melody
of balance. Yet all was not as God wanted.

Over the passing of untold millions of years, the shaping of our Earth came about: God creating,
the angels directing and counter-directing the efforts of Lucifer. Many beasts, great and small
Reptilian and mammal, bird and fish have come and gone. When the fullness of time came, God took
two pairs of humanoid hominids and they were given souls.*** And modern humanity was born. They
were brought to a beautiful place and they were given dominion over it. They were blameless before
God and yet they were still subject to the physical death Lucifer’s envy had brought to the world
(We know this, because the Bible says that the reason that man was kicked out of the garden was that
he may eat of the tree of life and live in sin forever. So death was already in the background
in the Biblical account) God offered them a choice: Obey me, and as heads of the creation you will
redeem the creation from Satan and death will be no more. The first Adam was to accomplish the
redemption of Nature due to his high priestly and kingly role as head of all the creatures of
earth. He WOULD have been able to do this because the earthly creation was not entrenched in its
own guilt, but in slavery to the devil and the death his guilt brought. SO Adam would
have ontologically been capable of rendering a salvific act of obedience because he would not be
atoning for PERSONAL HUMAN GUILT, but offering an ontological sacrifice of his own will on behalf
of creation to God: As the face of creation, he would offer its destiny to God- The freedom of
obedience, or the ever-more agrravated condition of Sin, not only in nature but now in human
souls.Unfortunately, Adam, through deception chose evil. And the humanity that would have
restored creation, lost its divine right to sovreignty over the creatures of earth and became
a slave to the World, Flesh and the Devil.

…And from there we know the rest as the Catholic
Church has revealed it. Christ as God-Man has restored us to God as God, and in him we find the
fullness of our being. This is one reason why Jesus is called the “Second Adam.” He worked
the redemption Adam could not; Firstly of our souls, and then in time creation itself will be all
God intended it to be.

In time I will footnote and reference my claims. They are first biblical, then scientific, and then based on the common claims of various cultures.
May I respectfully say that while the above is very creative, it does not represent Catholic teaching regarding Adam and original sin.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is sacred.
 
I’ve got to say, this is all quite interesting, but I don’t get the impression that Jesus was planned right from the beginning, but became neccesary because of our movement away from God (and/or the actions of Satan)

All of which call into question the whole idea of God and his omniscience, which I generally find easily answered by (our belief) in the existence of our free will, and the nature of omniscience in the face of free will (which, I think, is fairly scriptually standard)
 
All of which call into question the whole idea of God and his omniscience, which I generally find easily answered by (our belief) in the existence of our free will, and the nature of omniscience in the face of free will (which, I think, is fairly scriptually standard)
I had a problem with this one at first to. But, and I apologize for the horrible example, if I were to go forward in time, then I were to know everything you have done. However at any moment you may changewhat you in the future had already done and it woulod be known in the future that you had only done the second act. You still chose. God knows all because he is not restricted by time. Sure he knows what you are going to do an hour from now, but you could change that and he would know what the new thing you chose to do an hour from now would be.
 
I had a problem with this one at first to. But, and I apologize for the horrible example, if I were to go forward in time, then I were to know everything you have done. However at any moment you may changewhat you in the future had already done and it woulod be known in the future that you had only done the second act. You still chose. God knows all because he is not restricted by time. Sure he knows what you are going to do an hour from now, but you could change that and he would know what the new thing you chose to do an hour from now would be.
But would he know at the time? Outside time? Surely he would know the phenomenal range of possibilities, since that is what is to know?

Thing is, if he knew the pain and anguish of failing, would he create us? And why would he create Satan if he knew he was to end up the source of all evil?
 
Thing is, if he knew the pain and anguish of failing, would he create us? And why would he create Satan if he knew he was to end up the source of all evil?
In order for us to choose there has to be choices. If your choic was cheese,cheese, cheese, you would have to choose God. If there were no other choices then we wouldn’t really be choosing him because we wouldn’t have a choice.
 
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