I bought some other religious texts

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thom18
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Thom18

Guest
I’d like to get more into apologetics, specifically when it comes to engaging those of other faiths. I want to have a fair knowledge of other faiths so any conversation wouldn’t have to be totally one-sided. I took a college course in world religions, but it didn’t concern itself with much more than the history of a few religions and some terminology that they use. So, I decided to buy a copy of the Qur’an and the Book of Mormon while I was at a book store today to get me started, figuring it’s something I’ll have to set out to do on my own.

I’d like to know how others who have gone down this path went about it. How much did you read a day? How did you balance Bible or other Christian study with the non-Christian? If you have employed what you learned in conversation, how so?
 
This sounds like a major undertaking. How well do you know the Catholic faith to begin with, let alone to specialize in “Catholicism vs. Mormonism” or “Catholicism vs. Islam?” I am not asking to criticize but what you are proposing is a major commitment of time and energy.

There are many different branches of apologetics: just defending the belief in God to begin with is a major effort. Then there come more specific issues like defending the inerrancy of Scripture, the history of the Church, Marian dogmas, specific teachings like abortion and contraception, etc. It is tempting to want to dive in an explain the Church in comparison to other religions, but I suggest starting by reading a good study Bible in its entirety, then the Catechism in is entirety. So the prep work alone should take well over a year. It is challenging work but very fulfilling, so good luck!
 
I’m not really looking to “specialize”. I got those books because I can read them. I saw the bhagavad gita as well, for example, but that doesn’t really read like any sort of narrative, from what I saw, and I feel I need to limit myself to those or I won’t comprehend it. Eastern texts are going to take me awhile to get to- I suppose I chose to focus on Western religious scriptures because I’m already familiar with their style.

I have a good grasp on our Faith. I know our doctrines, I’ve read (and still read) Scripture, and I’m vaguely familiar with early Church writings and councils (one of my current projects is reading one of St. Augustine’s Against works- the name slips my mind at the moment). I have work to do in studying our own Faith, for sure, but I don’t have it in my mind that I’m going to become a walking encyclopedia, as much as I’d like to.
 
Last edited:
The best way to learn about other faiths is to go directly to their sources, as you have done, as opposed to merely reading about them from others. This is how I learned that Catholicism is nothing at all what I had been taught by well-meaning evangelicals. Best of luck with this. I am an avid reader but delving into those two volumes is far beyond my ability to stay focused. 🙂
 
The first book I read when wanting to learn how to speak to non-Catholics who had issues with the Church was “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” - “The Attack on “Romanism” by Bible Christians.” Author: Karl Keating

It was excellent source material for me about many things I did not know, as I hadn’t been to Catholic schools and needed better understanding. As a newbie to the subject matter, I was amazed to learn many things and recommended the book to others.
 
It is good to pray before dialoging with someone in order to be calm and gentle in explaining our faith. It is the Holy Spirit that changes hearts…we can plant seeds!
 
Thom18 said:
I’d like to know how others who have gone down this path went about it. How much did you read a day? How did you balance Bible or other Christian study with the non-Christian? If you have employed what you learned in conversation, how so?
Click to expand...
I’m no apologist but I did take an interest last year for a while. Peter Kreeft is a good resource. He wrote a book debating Muslim versus Christian that was very helpful. Cant remember the name but it is easy to read. Anyway he is one of the best in the business, to my knowledge.
 
you could spend a lifetime learning apologetics and defending the faith, without touching an outside text.

Just my two cents, but it would take another lifetime to earnestly study other major religions. if you want to learn any branch of apologetics, stick with Catholic materials
 
Thom18 said:
I’d like to get more into apologetics, specifically when it comes to engaging those of other faiths. I want to have a fair knowledge of other faiths so any conversation wouldn’t have to be totally one-sided. I took a college course in world religions, but it didn’t concern itself with much more than the history of a few religions and some terminology that they use. So, I decided to buy a copy of the Qur’an and the Book of Mormon while I was at a book store today to get me started, figuring it’s something I’ll have to set out to do on my own.

I’d like to know how others who have gone down this path went about it. How much did you read a day? How did you balance Bible or other Christian study with the non-Christian? If you have employed what you learned in conversation, how so?
Click to expand...
What translation of the Qur’an do you have? 2towers is correct, by the way, when he says that it could take a ‘lifetime to earnestly study other major religions.’ You’ll need more that a ‘fair knowledge’ of any given religion if you wish to persuade others to your point of view. My advice is that you learn all you can about your own Faith first.
 
Last edited:
Just as the Bible cannot be understood apart from how the Church reads and understands it, the main texts of other religions cannot really be understood apart from the people who read and believe in them I would go even further with the Quran, and say you have to learn Arabic to read it.

I recommend you read the texts you, but try to find Muslims and Mormons who can help you understand. Read Paul VI’s encyclical Ecclesiam Suam to understand the humility and love needed for dialogue.

And imo the Bhagavad Gita, and the Mahabharata from which it comes, are among the easiest to read. They are almost completely narrative.
 
Niblo said:
40.png
Thom18:
I’d like to get more into apologetics, specifically when it comes to engaging those of other faiths. I want to have a fair knowledge of other faiths so any conversation wouldn’t have to be totally one-sided. I took a college course in world religions, but it didn’t concern itself with much more than the history of a few religions and some terminology that they use. So, I decided to buy a copy of the Qur’an and the Book of Mormon while I was at a book store today to get me started, figuring it’s something I’ll have to set out to do on my own.

I’d like to know how others who have gone down this path went about it. How much did you read a day? How did you balance Bible or other Christian study with the non-Christian? If you have employed what you learned in conversation, how so?
Click to expand...
What translation of the Qur’an do you have? 2towers is correct, by the way, when he says that it could take a ‘lifetime to earnestly study other major religions.’ You’ll need more that a ‘fair knowledge’ of any given religion if you wish to persuade others to your point of view. My advice is that you learn all you can about your own Faith first.
Click to expand...
It’s translated by M.H. Shakir. I think it’s an extremely literal translation, because I find myself having to reconstruct what I’m reading.
 
Check out the Bhagavad Gita As It Is. It’s a great work of scholarship. What the Bible is to Christianity, the Gita is to HInduism.
 
Thom18 said:
It’s translated by M.H. Shakir. I think it’s an extremely literal translation, because I find myself having to reconstruct what I’m reading.
Click to expand...
Ahh, not the best of choices!

Because of size restrictions I will need to reply over several posts.

The Qur’an is the supreme authority in Islam. It is the fundamental and paramount source of its creed, rituals, ethics and laws. No translation is considered to be the Qur’an; and no translation carries the same status as the Arabic. Muslims consider translations to be mere renditions of the Qur’an.

Muhammad Abdel Haleem - Professor of Islamic Studies at the University of London - writes:

‘Arabs themselves find English translations of the Qur’an disappointing, unconvincing, and lacking in the cohesion, clarity and grandeur, as well as the rhythm and power, of the original Qur’anic verses.

‘The Qur’an’s unique qualities in the Arabic need to be analysed in English, and a new approach adopted towards its translation. Even the best of the available translations pose very serious difficulties in the proper appreciation and understanding of the Qur’an.’ (Understanding the Qur’an - Themes and Styles).
 
Last edited:
Thom18 said:
It’s translated by M.H. Shakir. I think it’s an extremely literal translation, because I find myself having to reconstruct what I’m reading.
Click to expand...
One thing to watch out for in any translation are the words contained in parenthesis. These are not found in the Qur’an itself; and are, in every case, commentaries - or clarifications - made by the translator. They can be very misleading. Here’s an example. It is taken from the Surah ‘Al-Fatiha’ (The Opening). This Surah is very important. It comes at the beginning of each rak‘a (section) of the Islamic formal daily prayers; and without it the prayer is not complete:

‘In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists). The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of resurrection). You (Alone) we worship and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything). Guide us to the Straight Way. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

This translation is by Muhammad Al-Hilali and Muhammad Khan, and was published by the King Fahd Complex in Saudi Arabia. The translation reflects the puritan (Wahhabi) attitude towards Jews and Christians, and is extremely misleading.
 
Last edited:
Thom18 said:
It’s translated by M.H. Shakir. I think it’s an extremely literal translation, because I find myself having to reconstruct what I’m reading.
Click to expand...
This is Shakir:

‘All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. The Beneficent, the Merciful. Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help. Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.’

And this by Professor Haleem:

‘In the name of God, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy! Praise belongs to God, Lord of the Worlds, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy, Master of the Day of Judgement. It is You we worship; it is You we ask for help. Guide us to the straight path: the path of those You have blessed, those who incur no anger and who have not gone astray.’

He writes:

‘The followers of the path are described in three ways: (i) they are blessed/favoured by God. Consequently, (ii) they are not the object of anger and (iii) they are not astray. This is the persuasive nature of Qur’anic language, which in this passage does not include anything repellent or discouraging. Every section, in the way it is presented, is acceptable in itself and leads naturally to the subsequent section. The request of the believer, then, appears to be significant and perfectly acceptable to right-minded people.

‘Blessing the followers of the path is attributed to God: ‘the path of those You have blessed’. Being the object of anger and being astray are not related to God in this way.

‘The second group is those who incur anger. Anger can be from God, the angels, human beings or other creatures. It is wrong to say, ‘With whom You are angry or wrathful’, as many translators do, since this deviates from the original Arabic and adds a quality of God which does not appear anywhere in this passage. In fact the entire picture of God in Sirat al-Fati˙a is benign and beautiful, the Most Beneficent, Most Merciful, Caring Lord. Even as the Master of the Day of Judgement, He is the Source of Help, who gives guidance and blessings. He is not said to be angry or leading people astray. Non-Muslim believers can without difficulty appreciate such a picture of God, and the sentiments expressed throughout the sira are equally acceptable to believers in God whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims.’ (Understanding the Qur’an - Themes and Styles).
 
Thom18 said:
It’s translated by M.H. Shakir. I think it’s an extremely literal translation, because I find myself having to reconstruct what I’m reading.
Click to expand...
I recommend you obtain a copy of Professor Haleem’s translation. If you enter ‘M.A.S. Haleem, Quran, PDF’ online you will be able to download a copy from this address: https://archive.org/details/TheQuranOxfrdWrldClassics. (This link does not work, so get typing! I’m an old man – 72yrs – not into setting up links, etc. In my day hi-tech communication consisted of two tin cans joined by a taut piece of string).

The hardcover version is better than the PDF, since it contains the Arabic script – and in any case, I much prefer the feel of paper in my hands. I also recommend you get hold of Haleem’s ‘Understanding the Qur’an - Themes and Styles.’ He really is very good.

I hope this helps.

May God bless you, and keep you close to Himself. Have a great day, and very best regards.
 
Last edited:
Thom18 said:
I’d like to know how others who have gone down this path went about it. How much did you read a day? How did you balance Bible or other Christian study with the non-Christian?
Click to expand...
I’d like to share a site with you that has the Holy Books of most of the well known religions called “Ocean”. It has a search engine and you can see what has been found in various scriptures on a given theme… this might assist people in exploring various subject. The site is free:
http://bahai-education.org/ocean.html
 
arthra said:
I’d like to share a site with you that has the Holy Books of most of the well known religions called “Ocean”. It has a search engine and you can see what has been found in various scriptures on a given theme… this might assist people in exploring various subject. The site is free:
Click to expand...
Hello Arthra. Nice to find you on this site, as well as the other.

Have a great day, and very best regards.

May God bless and keep you.

Niblo (Paul)
 
I would recommend buying Arthur J. Arberry’s translation of the Qur’ān, translated by a non-Muslim, it’s free of sectarian bias, and there is very little parentheses. Also, rather than simply translating the Qur’ān, he also attempts to capture it’s original literary beauty.

I would recommend reading the Qur’ān at least twice, first in this order:


Then from beginning to end.
 
Last edited:
I recommend a study of the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top