I came across fundamentalists for the first time in my life

[HelenRose]

I’ve never seen the fire and brimstone types in my life before, but, today on campus, I walked past two elderly women holding signs and screaming that you will go to hell if you have have premarital sex. I feel awful because, a lot of students here are from east Asia and this might be their first impresssion of Christians. It may also turn off other students from Christianity. Now, one of the was holding a staff with a cruxifix on it and, I was thinking, that they might be Catholics because a protestant fundie won’t be caught dead holding one, or, so I’ve heard. So, since we are on the same team, I could try to engage them and offer them insights on better ways to reach out to people, life, websites on the good news of marriage and family. However, they might also be sedevanticists and say that I’m going to hell for going to novus ordo masses. My third idea is that these two are being paid by a liberal group to act like bad stereotypes of Christians to furhter their agenda. I mean, it is a liberal town with a liberal university.

So what should I do, try to engage them in dialogue if they are still there later or ignore them? Either way, I’ll pray for them as that is the obvious answer. Keep in mind that I’m almost 20 and have never put myself in the frying pan before.

There are nuts in most every bag and other countries too. No, I would not try to engage. I know many fundamental Christians and they to not act that way. Just pray for them. It is possible that they are paid by liberals or are liberals themselves but I doubt it. I often think that online anti-whatever tirades are a set-up as well.

 

[Padres1969]

There are nuts in most every bag and other countries too. No, I would not try to engage. I know many fundamental Christians and they to not act that way. Just pray for them. ** It is possible that they are paid by liberals or are liberals themselves but I doubt it. I often think that online anti-whatever tirades are a set-up as well.**

I often wonder what makes someone think that “liberals” would resort to such a tactic when there are plenty of these fire and brimstone types out there frankly making fools of themselves and Christians in general. I mean it’s not like these street preacher types exclusively target more liberal establishments you’d expect if they were somehow part of a “liberal” conspiracy. They just as, if not more often attack “conservative” establishments as well including the Catholic Church.

 

[HelenRose]

I often wonder what makes someone think that “liberals” would resort to such a tactic when there are plenty of these fire and brimstone types out there frankly making fools of themselves and Christians in general. I mean it’s not like these street preacher types exclusively target more liberal establishments you’d expect if they were somehow part of a “liberal” conspiracy. They just as, if not more often attack “conservative” establishments as well including the Catholic Church.

I said I doubted that this was the case. However, when dealing with the internet and other forms of communication there are people - on either side of any issue - who are more than capable of using that ploy. Take a quick look at the garbage that Podesta is up to. To wit: He confessed to creating two phony Catholic entities, Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good and Catholics United.

Read: catholicleague.org/hillary-is-now-the-issue-not-podesta/

 

[Padres1969]

I said I doubted that this was the case. However, when dealing with the internet and other forms of communication there are people - on either side of any issue - who are more than capable of using that ploy. Take a quick look at the garbage that Podesta is up to. To wit: He confessed to creating two phony Catholic entities, Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good and Catholics United.

Read: catholicleague.org/hillary-is-now-the-issue-not-podesta/

To be fair those astroturfing Catholic groups if created by Podesta and co., are kind of the complete opposite of what the fire and brimstone street preachers are. If anything groups like that Catholics in Alliance are exactly what the “liberal” Catholics and others would like to see Catholics be (keeping in mind that yes I know the Church can never change in that way, etc… etc… (that is a given ))

 

[Wesrock]

Perhaps there is a Catholic or Christian group on campus that could make a response. Not a formalized response to these two women, but who could do their own outreach and tactful education on the issues (without compromising our morals).

 

[Padres1969]

Perhaps there is a Catholic or Christian group on campus that could make a response. Not a formalized response to these two women, but who could do their own outreach and tactful education on the issues (without compromising our morals).

Just be sure to not do it around or at the same times as the fire and brimstone types. I’ve noted over the years that anyone who tries to present a less ridiculous Christian option at the same times as the fire and brimstone folks, invariably gets lumped in with them and they’re all classified as “crazy Christians” and at best ignored…

 

[RCinMT]

I often wonder what makes someone think that “liberals” would resort to such a tactic when there are plenty of these fire and brimstone types out there frankly making fools of themselves and Christians in general. I mean it’s not like these street preacher types exclusively target more liberal establishments you’d expect if they were somehow part of a “liberal” conspiracy. They just as, if not more often attack “conservative” establishments as well including the Catholic Church.

Are you serious? Did you miss the Hillary Clinton leaked emails?

 

[Padres1969]

Are you serious? Did you miss the Hillary Clinton leaked emails?

Not at all. But those emails back what I’m saying. They’ve created “liberal” Catholic groups, not fire and brimstone types. They’re trying to sway Catholics/Christians more liberal, not the other way around as the fire and brimstone types are doing. It would be counter productive for liberals to try and sway people into hard core conservative POVs.

 

[RCinMT]

Not at all. But those emails back what I’m saying. They’ve created “liberal” Catholic groups, not fire and brimstone types. They’re trying to sway Catholics/Christians more liberal, not the other way around as the fire and brimstone types are doing. It would be counter productive for liberals to try and sway people into hard core conservative POVs.

In what way because those groups are taking out incendiary advertisements in national newspapers trying to mislead people, arguing in public forums, etc.

Maybe it’s not a face-to-face personal encounter but when I open the USA Today and see a ridiculous advertisement from a group claiming to be Catholics opposed to Church teachings…well…that angers me more than a face-to-face confrontation.

Moreover you’re praising(?) liberals for not having the courage to come out and fight head-on? For being cunning and using subterfuge? Give me the fire and brimstone evangelist standing up or a liberal pro-abortion, pro-sexual revolutionary who will stand up in the flesh for what they believe.

No, hiding behind groups meant to deceive and mislead is beyond cowardly. But then it’s a pretty solid liberal tactic and they’ve managed to turn the government of this country into one such group.

 

[Padres1969]

In what way because those groups are taking out incendiary advertisements in national newspapers trying to mislead people, arguing in public forums, etc.

Maybe it’s not a face-to-face personal encounter but when I open the USA Today and see a ridiculous advertisement from a group claiming to be Catholics opposed to Church teachings…well…that angers me more than a face-to-face confrontation.

Moreover you’re praising(?) liberals for not having the courage to come out and fight head-on? For being cunning and using subterfuge? Give me the fire and brimstone evangelist standing up or a liberal pro-abortion, pro-sexual revolutionary who will stand up in the flesh for what they believe.

No, hiding behind groups meant to deceive and mislead is beyond cowardly. But then it’s a pretty solid liberal tactic and they’ve managed to turn the government of this country into one such group.

I’m not praising them. You’re creating a straw man there.

What I said was I find the idea that “liberals” would send ostensibly conservative fire and brimstone preachers to locations to be completely counter-intuitive. It would make no sense for them to do so as those types of preachers go completely against what a progressive would believe.

 

[RCinMT]

I’m not praising them. You’re creating a straw man there.

What I said was I find the idea that “liberals” would send ostensibly conservative fire and brimstone preachers to locations to be completely counter-intuitive. It would make no sense for them to do so as those types of preachers go completely against what a progressive would believe.

Accept my apologies, I wasn’t trying to be uncharitable.

As mentioned in the EWTN program “Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing”, which followed the rise of Saul Alinsky and adherents to his worldview/principles, certain groups–certainly predominantly liberal–are so committed to their objectives and endowed with such self-righteousness that they naturally believe in consequentialism.

It’s entirely believable to me that such groups would send plants to try to smear or discredit those with whom they disagree.

 

[Padres1969]

Accept my apologies, I wasn’t trying to be uncharitable.

As mentioned in the EWTN program “Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing”, which followed the rise of Saul Alinsky and adherents to his worldview/principles, certain groups–certainly predominantly liberal–are so committed to their objectives and endowed with such self-righteousness that they naturally believe in consequentialism.

It’s entirely believable to me that such groups would send plants to try to smear or discredit those with whom they disagree.

Guess that’s where we’ll have to disagree. I think the real fire and brimstone types do enough discrediting of themselves on their own. They don’t need anyone outside trying to help them along.

 

[RCinMT]

Guess that’s where we’ll have to disagree. I think the real fire and brimstone types do enough discrediting of themselves on their own. They don’t need anyone outside trying to help them along.

The intent wouldn’t be to discredit people who engage in aggressive evangelizing. The attempt would be to create a caricature of Christians. When people who are highly placed in liberal circles, for instance people running presidential campaigns, are creating shadow organizations meant to subvert the Catholic Church (I guess it’s acceptable for atheist politicians to interfere or influence churches but individuals cannot bring their religion into the public sphere…that’s curious) it’s not hard for me to believe that they would be willing to go to any length to smear Christians.

Is it really hard for you to believe that? There seems to be an appalling lack of integrity, where does that stop?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Likely a group like that is best ignored. They seem a little whacked.

However, I will add that sometimes if I am presented with a more sensible fundamentalist, I like to ask a few questions, like:

“What do you think about homosexual marriage?” They’ll answer as you would expect. “It’s an abomination” or something like that. I then say “I believe that too.”

“What do you think about abortion”? Same thing…“I believe that too.”

“What do you think about divorce”? Some of them are very much against it. Same response.

“What do you think about adultery”? Same.

“What do you think about freedom of worship”? “I’m for it”, they’ll say.

On and on. Ten Commandments roll.

Then “I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior. Have you?” “Oh yes” they’ll say.

“I believe only through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ can we be saved, do you?”

“I believe we must truly repent of our sins, and not make excuses for them, do you?”

“I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God” etc

At the very end, I ask “What is your church?”. They’ll tell me.

Then, and only then, do I say “Well, I’m Catholic and it appears we believe mostly the same important things, doesn’t it, brother/sister? I enjoyed our conversation. Have a very nice day.”

Sometimes Catholics are surprised that most Fundamentalists believe almost the same things we do…much more so than mainline Protestants do. But if one wants to talk to them, go for the basics, not the details.

 

[Padres1969]

The intent wouldn’t be to discredit people who engage in aggressive evangelizing. The attempt would be to create a caricature of Christians. When people who are highly placed in liberal circles, for instance people running presidential campaigns, are creating shadow organizations meant to subvert the Catholic Church (I guess it’s acceptable for atheist politicians to interfere or influence churches but individuals cannot bring their religion into the public sphere…that’s curious) it’s not hard for me to believe that they would be willing to go to any length to smear Christians.

Is it really hard for you to believe that? There seems to be an appalling lack of integrity, where does that stop?

Well to be fair Podesta isn’t running for president. And even if he were, he’s not an atheist as you appear to suggest, and neither is Mrs. Clinton. John Podesta is himself a Roman Catholic and of course Hillary Clinton is a Methodist. But in Podesta’s case you’ve actually got a instance of a fellow Catholic attempting to use his position to subvert the Catholic Church in the US. This isn’t really an outside attack on the RCC, it’s an internal one from one of your own members.

 

[RCinMT]

Well to be fair Podesta isn’t running for president. And even if he were, he’s not an atheist as you appear to suggest, and neither is Mrs. Clinton. John Podesta is himself a Roman Catholic and of course Hillary Clinton is a Methodist. But in Podesta’s case you’ve actually got a instance of a fellow Catholic attempting to use his position to subvert the Catholic Church in the US. This isn’t really an outside attack on the RCC, it’s an internal one from one of your own members.

I said he’s running a presidential campaign…which he is. That said, based on John Podesta’s beliefs he’s not Catholic. The Catholic Church spreads the truth of Christ: it’s not a secular government that can be changed by influencing public opinion nor is it subject to the whims of public opinion. I would be shocked if Podesta has set foot in a Church in years so it’s not an attack from the inside to me. He’s just another liberal–that’s his religion. Or maybe he’s worse: perhaps he is somebody who allows his politics to inform his religion.

As for Secretary Clinton, she clearly has very little regard for religion one way or the other because she wants to exert legal pressure on religious institutions that don’t go along with her agenda.

 

[PJM]

I’ve never seen the fire and brimstone types in my life before, but, today on campus, I walked past two elderly women holding signs and screaming that you will go to hell if you have have premarital sex. I feel awful because, a lot of students here are from east Asia and this might be their first impresssion of Christians. It may also turn off other students from Christianity. Now, one of the was holding a staff with a cruxifix on it and, I was thinking, that they might be Catholics because a protestant fundie won’t be caught dead holding one, or, so I’ve heard. So, since we are on the same team, I could try to engage them and offer them insights on better ways to reach out to people, life, websites on the good news of marriage and family. However, they might also be sedevanticists and say that I’m going to hell for going to novus ordo masses. My third idea is that these two are being paid by a liberal group to act like bad stereotypes of Christians to furhter their agenda. I mean, it is a liberal town with a liberal university.

So what should I do, try to engage them in dialogue if they are still there later or ignore them? Either way, I’ll pray for them as that is the obvious answer. Keep in mind that I’m almost 20 and have never put myself in the frying pan before.

No actually, we are on Christ team if you are an informed and fully practicing RC.

Karl Keating the founder of this CAF site, some years ago authored an awesome book on this very topic

CATHOLICISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM… The Attack on Romanism by Bible Christians… a book well worth reading

God Bless you,

While we cannot aways effect or control what others do; we CAN choose to do what we KNOW Jesus would have us do. Amen