I came upset from mass today

[nan]

“Obama has also said that we have a tradition of not funding abortion with federal money (you can disagree with this statement if you want … it depends on how you define “funding”, etc.), even though he is personally pro-choice. I certainly hope that if a health care plan comes to a vote in which abortion is federally funded, Catholic get together not to stop the bill, but to amend it so that the slaughter of innocents is not tolerated” Tradition and hope - yeah. I have seen how much this prez values the one and makes hay with the other - thanks but no thanks.

 

[tcm22]

No people talk about Pro-Life stuff all the time, in your logic I could protest that the Church is promoting the Republican party and their torture, unjust wars, (increase in abortion rates, teen pregnancy etc…) but I don’t because I’m Pro-Life (yes there are Pro-Life Democrats).

I don’t want to get into the current plan because I don’t think there has been enough involvement from the Republican side of the house and we really don’t want a Democrats only bill even if they have a majority. We see where the Republican only measures from the early part of the Bush administration got us, why would we repeat that?

However I believe that basic health care is a right. Early last Century we were arguing about Child labor laws and Women Voting… none of us would question those “rights” although 100 years before that they would have laughed at the possibility. I believe 100 years from now people will say, remember when people lost their entire savings because they got sick? remember we the US was the most powerful and prosperous nation on earth but ranked 33 in infant mortality rate because they wouldn’t provide prenatal care and basic medical care to mothers or their children once they were born?

The Catholic Church has always fought for the basic rights of individuals and the Pope’s latest encyclical should help guide us as well. It’s kind of like the updated 7 Deadly Sins released last summer. I continually see far right Catholics joking about us “liberals” and “the environment” when they are actually going against the teachings of their Church if they intentionally pollute when they don’t have to.

Just stuff to think about… I do agree that I’m very concerned about the abortion funding in it.

Joe

As far as I know the Church has never taken a position with respect to how health care should be provided in the US. She has, however, been very clear in her moral opposition to the crime of abortion. That pro-life positions are similarly adopted by the Republican Party is not a reflection of the Church’s support of a policy position as much as it is an indication of the similar moral positions in two different organizations. For your analogy to hold, one would have to see a spokesman speaking at Mass with respect to a specific policy proposal advocated by the Republicans that has no basis in Church teaching.

In this instance, reasonable people can disagree on the merits of the Obama/Democratic health proposal, all within the realm of Catholic teaching. That’s not the case with abortion. To take a captive audience and subject them to a one-sided political sales pitch is a travesty. I’d be the first to pick up the phone to the Bishop’s office.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Here is a link to the bill:
H.R.3200

Obama’s health care plan does NOT support euthanasia.

On page 430 of the Health Reform Bill

‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara
5 graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat
6 ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
7 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in
8 clude indications respecting, among other items—
9 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the
10 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac
11 or pulmonary problems;
12 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer
13 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set14
ting;
15 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
**16 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri
17 tion and hydration.’’.
**

I bolded the last part. Food and water are not a “treatment”. That alone, saying that food and water are an optional treatment that someone can decide whether or not it will be “ordered” by a doctor, that supports Euthanasia. Think Terri Schiavo, etc…

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Thank you Life is Beautiful for the references. I’m amazed that some people will just take
it for granted that “abortion and euthanasia are not part of the congressional bill” when it
is there in black and white. Also once this bill is passed and before it is implemented, his
“czars” will interpret it and give us something even more “evil”. More than one of his"czars" has the full support of the unions, Naral and lawyers…I wonder why. If this
bill does not include funding for abortion and for end of life counseling, why don’t they
respond to questions about these quotes from the people? All they do, Obama in his
town hall meetings and Spector (just to name a few) is say that they are not part of the
health care reform.
As for the comments being made in Church, that’s appalling. Please let us know what
your priest has to say about it.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Look to Europe. The euthanasia movement is firmly entrenched there; what an outrage that food and water are now considered ‘extraordinary means’ of preserving ‘life not worthy of living.’

 

[rivera01]

So I talked to the priest today. I told him that there was an announcement made at the one o’ clock mass, that involved the health care reform law that I found very unappropriate for mass. He told me that the priest in charge of the parish advised him that there going to be some lay ministers allowed to make an announcement regarding the law. He thought nothing of it, and followed the PIC instructions. Then I further informed him that this law is actually masking federal funding on abortion and euthanasia, and explained to him what the spokes person said and the conversation that he and I had outside of church. Well, he became upset, and said that if the PIC knows about this law, why would he allow them to make a speech that is in clear violation to Church teaching. He also said how can these people be serving in the church if they are promoting these ideas. He told me that he was going to talk to the PIC about the situation. I honestly believe that the priest I talked to was not aware of the truth behind the law. He admitted to me that he just thought that it was just about general health care. He said that he would like to get some documentation and tell the parishioners about this law. I further believe him because, he was ordained a priest in Mexico about 3 years ago, and is still waiting for his permanent residence paper work to go thru and does not know how the whole “system” here works.

 

[tcm22]

So I talked to the priest today. I told him that there was an announcement made at the one o’ clock mass, that involved the health care reform law that I found very unappropriate for mass. He told me that the priest in charge of the parish advised him that there going to be some lay ministers allowed to make an announcement regarding the law. He thought nothing of it, and followed the PIC instructions. Then I further informed him that this law is actually masking federal funding on abortion and euthanasia, and explained to him what the spokes person said and the conversation that he and I had outside of church. Well, he became upset, and said that if the PIC knows about this law, why would he allow them to make a speech that is in clear violation to Church teaching. He also said how can these people be serving in the church if they are promoting these ideas. He told me that he was going to talk to the PIC about the situation. I honestly believe that the priest I talked to was not aware of the truth behind the law. He admitted to me that he just thought that it was just about general health care. He said that he would like to get some documentation and tell the parishioners about this law. I further believe him because, he was ordained a priest in Mexico about 3 years ago, and is still waiting for his permanent residence paper work to go thru and does not know how the whole “system” here works.

I commend your courage and perseverance. It seems to me like someone is taking advantage of your Priest’s lack of experience. You may want to communicate your concerns to the Bishop’s office as well. If it’s going on in your Parish, there may be other Parishes in the Diocese where there is an organized advocacy effort.

 

[rivera01]

I contacted my local bishop via email and this is the response I got, dashes are in place of names:

Dear --,

Thank you very much for your letter and expression of concern about discussions regarding healthcare. I think it is important to understand that there is no currently defined plan for healthcare reform.

The Church, and I know Father – as Pastor of --, support the following four propositions: first of all, that universal healthcare be available for people since it is a basic human right; secondly, there should be a concerted effort to reduce the cost of healthcare and to distribute that cost equitably; thirdly, we will continue to oppose any federal funding of abortion and are working to see to it that any healthcare legislation would be “abortion neutral.” Finally, we are seeking that any legislation would include a right of conscience so that healthcare workers do not violate their moral conscience.

I think it is important that there be opportunities for us as Catholics to participate in the discussion and to offer our perspective. We do hope for healthcare reform but certain conditions are important as well. I hope this is helpful.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Most Rev. ----

Bishop of -

 

[DOShea]

If you look at this particular legislation (and others of recent writing) there is no doubt this legislation will pass muster as “abortion neutral.” There will be no language in it mandating any kind of abortions or funding for it. Instead, it will say that the Federal Commission on Health Care, another “czar” and group of unelected, unaccountable people will make determinations for all situations in reference to paragraphs x-y-z. One of those situations in those paragraphs will be abortion, and you can bet your bottom dollar the Commission will indeed find that it is perfectly legal to spend federal dollars on abortions on demand.

Then all the politicians will duck for cover under the guise of abortion not being in the bill. They will point fingers at the Commission (who YOU the voter have absolutely NO SAY over) and act righteously indignant that the Commission is taking it where the legislature didn’t want it to go (which is baloney, they wrote the bill to work exactly this way!). Someone will sue them and the Federal Courts will decide that Congress gave them the power to decide and they decided, therefore they followed the law and abortions are now legally and justifiably federally funded.

That’s how they play the game. How many times do they have to say one and do another before people figure this out and demand no more unaccountable positions from Washington? There has already been a proposal in the House bill to add language specifying no fed-funded abortions; the caucus turned it down flat. What does common sense tell you the reason behind that might be? Maybe because it would prevent some Commission from allowing them to be funded? What other good reason can you come up with if that’s not the reason?

 

[joandarc2008]

Obama’s health care plan does NOT support euthanasia. It provides a consultation for elderly patients about “end of life issues” - something that isn’t currently covered by Medicare/Medicaid. Basically, it’s a chance to talk about what kind of life-saving measures you want, whether or not you prefer to die at home rather than the ICU, what types of palliative care you want … the kinds of things that ought to be part of every person’s living will. The health care plan is NOT promoting euthanasia. This is, quite frankly, a distortion.

Obama has also said that we have a tradition of not funding abortion with federal money (you can disagree with this statement if you want … it depends on how you define “funding”, etc.), even though he is personally pro-choice. I certainly hope that if a health care plan comes to a vote in which abortion is federally funded, Catholic get together not to stop the bill, but to amend it so that the slaughter of innocents is not tolerated.

It’s vital that, as informed citizens, we do research on these issues, and not take at face value what talking heads say - those on the right or the left. Mass media is a tool of corporations, which are concerned with entertainment, NOT information delivery.

You sound like a person who really cares about what happens to America. Please go find information - lots of it - from the left and the right and the center. Look at whose interests are being served by what talking head; look at the agenda people are pushing and what they serve to gain by your buying into their rhetoric (most of the time: dollars and power). Then make a decision and fight for it.

While I do agree with the above poster after reading the health care plan that it does not support euthanasia but makes concessions for end of life counseling such as living wills, etc to be paid for by the govt. which imo is good. For instance if you want life saving measures you could have that put in writing, let your family know, make it legal, and have that process paid for by the governement.

We are as human beings given the choice of free will and we cannot take away others’ choices to take the easy way out. If it was easy to do the right thing then passing in to the kingdom heaven would not be as difficult as a camel passing through the eye of a needle.

However, I do have a major issue with abortion being paid for with public funding. Only in cases of a mother’s life being in danger and the termination being secondary to the procedure such as removal of the fallopian tube should be covered. This is in concert with the CCC teaching. However again there are some that will choose to take the easy way out if it is offered.

It is becoming aparent especially in poorer communities that many will choose their pocketbooks/wallets over their morality. They do this when they vote for people that support plans such as these that promote death. So take a look and ask yourself were you part of the problem last election and if so - what do you plan do to with your congressional seats this coming one?

 

[joandarc2008]

So I talked to the priest today. I told him that there was an announcement made at the one o’ clock mass, that involved the health care reform law that I found very unappropriate for mass. He told me that the priest in charge of the parish advised him that there going to be some lay ministers allowed to make an announcement regarding the law. He thought nothing of it, and followed the PIC instructions. Then I further informed him that this law is actually masking federal funding on abortion and euthanasia, and explained to him what the spokes person said and the conversation that he and I had outside of church. Well, he became upset, and said that if the PIC knows about this law, why would he allow them to make a speech that is in clear violation to Church teaching. He also said how can these people be serving in the church if they are promoting these ideas. He told me that he was going to talk to the PIC about the situation. I honestly believe that the priest I talked to was not aware of the truth behind the law. He admitted to me that he just thought that it was just about general health care. He said that he would like to get some documentation and tell the parishioners about this law. I further believe him because, he was ordained a priest in Mexico about 3 years ago, and is still waiting for his permanent residence paper work to go thru and does not know how the whole “system” here works.

Your priest sounds like a good man. He sounds like he is willing to learn about the community he is in. I am offering a prayer for him.

 

[BadTurkey]

Hi everyone, I was really happy at Mass, especially after I had eaten and drank the Body and Blood of our Lord. After Mass had ended, there was a spokes person from a local political party telling all the Hispanic community to be in favor of Obama’s universal health care plan because it will benefit everyone, this was basically the gist of it. After this guy finished speaking, everyone applauded him. As soon as he started speaking about this I felt like I was punched in the gut. I confronted this man outside of the church and told him that I do not have anything against the health care plan, as long as abortion and euthanasia were not included in the bill. He immediately wanted to water down the situation by saying, “well thats just in case of an emergency, like rape. If we want something thats good for the community we will have to accept what is bad as well.” and I told him that me as a Catholic can not call myself a Catholic if I am in favor of abortion and euthanasia. That I follow the teachings of the Church and in no way we are suppose to be in favor of such things. He told me that with every proposal there will be other congress men that will want to pass their own agenda as well and that he is also Catholic and this is his community, shook my hand and started walking away. Im planning on talking the our parish priest about the situation, since we had a priest from another Church give Mass today.

This is indeed very disturbing! You have every right to be upset. I’m very surprised that your parish has allowed this person to speak at Mass, especially when it’s apparent that he has a political agenda. I mean, your parish could lose its non-profit status because of this man, not to mention the things you already mentioned. Definitely talk to your parish priest about this!

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Watch EWTN’s “The World Over” . The topic is health care reform, Kennedy and
abortion. Wow. Here’s what the Church should be telling us.