I can do anything I want. I am washed in the blood

[Dirk_Skene]

Since he believes that if one is “washed in the blood” they are forever saved, the question becomes, has he really been washed in the blood? Because if he had, then he would show evidence of that. An informed Protestant who believes in Eternal Security would doubt very seriously the salvation of this individual. “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling” indeed.

I did not know that point of Protestant theology. It is very subtle. I will try to utilize that. Thanks.

 

[esieffe]

I think this is the right topic to put this under.

Looking for a little advice.

I have a young protestant fellow I work with that was in my office the other day just visiting. He knows I am Catholic. You can look at my desk & tell. Most folks there are. He was telling my officemate (there are 2 of us in this office) of some things he had been up to & some plan he had made for the weekend. They were less than proper. It was work, but I could not remain silent. I said “(his name) I thought you were Christian & very active in your church with the band & other things.” He said “Well, yes I am.” Then I asked “Well what is up with all this garbage you are talking about doing & the places you plan to go?” His reply floored me. He said “I’m washed in the blood. I am assured of heaven. Nothing can separate me from God.” I was speechless. Has anyone else heard of this nonsense? How does one educate this young fellow? I like him, but what he was talking about is a path to hell. I do see him after work occasionally for a brew so the opportunity does come up from time to time.

If it helps the understanding, he goes to a “Bible only church” & is VERY active there.

I have heard many Protestants say this, but not all think this I feel sure. Many think all you have to do is declare that Jesus is the savior, and your done.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I did not know that point of Protestant theology. It is very subtle. I will try to utilize that. Thanks.

Usually if a person backslides or sins after being “saved” in those denominations that ascribe to OSAS, they really weren’t’ saved in the first place, so they have to get saved again. I got this info from those with that belief. My question is, “How is that an ‘assurance of salvation’ if you have to get saved again, or if it didn’t “take” the first time?”

It really makes no sense.

 

[Robyn_p]

I think this is the right topic to put this under.

Looking for a little advice.

I have a young protestant fellow I work with that was in my office the other day just visiting. He knows I am Catholic. You can look at my desk & tell. Most folks there are. He was telling my officemate (there are 2 of us in this office) of some things he had been up to & some plan he had made for the weekend. They were less than proper. It was work, but I could not remain silent. I said “(his name) I thought you were Christian & very active in your church with the band & other things.” He said “Well, yes I am.” Then I asked “Well what is up with all this garbage you are talking about doing & the places you plan to go?” His reply floored me. He said “I’m washed in the blood. I am assured of heaven. Nothing can separate me from God.” I was speechless. Has anyone else heard of this nonsense? How does one educate this young fellow? I like him, but what he was talking about is a path to hell. I do see him after work occasionally for a brew so the opportunity does come up from time to time.

If it helps the understanding, he goes to a “Bible only church” & is VERY active there.

I would just have him read these verses from Galatians 5:

19Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, **that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. **22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. 24**And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. **

Or this one from the next chapter:

Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap,** if we do not lose heart.**

There’s more where those came from, but that should be enough to help him see how utterly anti-biblical his theology is.

 

[TruthSeeker319]

One of my dear friends thinks like this. She fell aways from the Catholic Church after High School. It is so sad to see anyone adopt a position such as this. No one can deny that sins are hated by God, yet these people claiming to love God will sin and then defend themselves? If it were another person, and not God, this would sound abusive.

 

[Peter_J]

That is a seriously twisted view of the purpose of confession. Send these folks to me & I will straighten them out for you.

I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there: someone like that might need a fellow Catholic to be the one to straighten them out.

 

[Robyn_p]

Also, as for the “nothing can separate us from the love of Christ” bit, I would point out to him that Paul there is talking about external forces. He never said that we can’t separate ourselves from Christ through our actions. In fact he explicitly says we can do just that in Galatians 5:4 when he says: “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”

Galatians really is the most helpful book for correcting this kind of thinking. It’s almost like Paul was addressing this exact problem.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I think this is the right topic to put this under.

Looking for a little advice.

I have a young protestant fellow I work with that was in my office the other day just visiting. He knows I am Catholic. You can look at my desk & tell. Most folks there are. He was telling my officemate (there are 2 of us in this office) of some things he had been up to & some plan he had made for the weekend. They were less than proper. It was work, but I could not remain silent. I said “(his name) I thought you were Christian & very active in your church with the band & other things.” He said “Well, yes I am.” Then I asked “Well what is up with all this garbage you are talking about doing & the places you plan to go?” His reply floored me. He said “I’m washed in the blood. I am assured of heaven. Nothing can separate me from God.” I was speechless. Has anyone else heard of this nonsense? How does one educate this young fellow? I like him, but what he was talking about is a path to hell. I do see him after work occasionally for a brew so the opportunity does come up from time to time.

If it helps the understanding, he goes to a “Bible only church” & is VERY active there.

The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer is a good cure for this brattiness and immaturity.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

…My question is, “How is that an ‘assurance of salvation’ if you have to get saved again, or if it didn’t “take” the first time?”

It really makes no sense.

True, but when did it make sense I just need to try to keep this kid out of hell. If I can bring him to the True faith, all the better.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer is a good cure for this brattiness and immaturity.

I’ll check it out, thanks.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

…Galatians really is the most helpful book for correcting this kind of thinking. It’s almost like Paul was addressing this exact problem.

And since that is one of my favorites it is my stupidity for not knowing this :doh2: Thanks!

 

[tamedlion]

I can identify with the feeling it gives you. I have a couple of Catholic acquaintances who like to justify their behavior with “I know I’ll have to tell the priest sooner or later that I am sorry …”

Here are my two cents on this two ideas. True, the idea of once saved always saved and going to confession “thru” the priest seems like the same thing and could be misleading. But with the idea of truly once saved always saved you become so intimate with The Lord that you will never offend Him again (thus truly saved) only lasts as long as the emotion is. In Catholic understanding of repenting and asking forgiveness “to The Lord” thru confession you never can say to yourself that you won’t sin again while you still alive. You still a sinner that has been forgiven and has to do the best you can not to fall to sin again but we all know how that goes. Is pretty much like that first love we all had and we thought that we would not fall in love again after we had that first broken heart! Remember,sin is attractive, let’s not kid ourselves, that’s why we all fall for it, but we have to do better with the graces received thru the sacrament of confession.

 

[jaimeleglise]

Jesus redeemed the entire human race by his sacrifice. Our personal salvation is being worked out as we live. We can lose it with one mortal sin that we did not confess nor repent of.

To say that Jesus saved us, we can do whatever we want is the sin of presumption.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I think this is the right topic to put this under.

Looking for a little advice.

I have a young protestant fellow I work with that was in my office the other day just visiting. He knows I am Catholic. You can look at my desk & tell. Most folks there are. He was telling my officemate (there are 2 of us in this office) of some things he had been up to & some plan he had made for the weekend. They were less than proper. It was work, but I could not remain silent. I said “(his name) I thought you were Christian & very active in your church with the band & other things.” He said “Well, yes I am.” Then I asked “Well what is up with all this garbage you are talking about doing & the places you plan to go?” His reply floored me. He said “I’m washed in the blood. I am assured of heaven. Nothing can separate me from God.” I was speechless. Has anyone else heard of this nonsense? How does one educate this young fellow? I like him, but what he was talking about is a path to hell. I do see him after work occasionally for a brew so the opportunity does come up from time to time.

If it helps the understanding, he goes to a “Bible only church” & is VERY active there.

Well you know I could say he was really saved to begin with but that wouldn’t make sense. I’m assuming that he believes in once saved always saved ask him what he thinks about Matthew chapter 7 verses 21 through 23, and ask him if he thinks that describes once saved always saved

 

[robertmoz]

I am a Protestant working in a Catholic Bible College. I don’t agree with young guys theology. While we may have eternal life, we not to use God’s grace as a license to sin. We are to be holy, because He is Holy.

 

[Simca]

Since he believes that if one is “washed in the blood” they are forever saved, the question becomes, has he really been washed in the blood? Because if he had, then he would show evidence of that. An informed Protestant who believes in Eternal Security would doubt very seriously the salvation of this individual. “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling” indeed.

Once Saved Always Saved is a doctrine ingrained in many Evangelical Christians, and they quote many scriptures to “prove” it, so you probably won’t be able to convince him otherwise, although you may be able to plant a seed of doubt in his mind which may grow over time, and perhaps eventually he will come to the knowledge of the truth.

What should be of high importance to him, though, is his witness for Christ: that is, not only his words, but more importantly, his actions. Are his actions leading others to Christ or away from Him? Do they look at him and see the holiness of God?

When I was an Evangelical Christian, I was convinced of Once Saved Always Saved, but it was drummed into our heads that we had to be a good witness for Christ in our words and in our actions. I would hope his church teaches the same thing.

You might want to ask, in a curious manner, what his church teaches about righteous living. So many scriptures come to mind, which after some prayer, you might want to share with him. You mostly want to pray, though, that the Holy Spirit will convict him and point him in the right direction.

Here’s a couple of scriptures:

Titus 2:11&12 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age.

Romans 13:13 Let us behave properly as in the daylight, not in carousing or drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.

But, back for just a second to Once Saved Always Saved: even St. Paul was not convinced of his own salvation when he said in I Corinthians 9:27 I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

 

[ericc]

I think this is the right topic to put this under.

Looking for a little advice.

I have a young protestant fellow I work with that was in my office the other day just visiting. He knows I am Catholic. You can look at my desk & tell. Most folks there are. He was telling my officemate (there are 2 of us in this office) of some things he had been up to & some plan he had made for the weekend. They were less than proper. It was work, but I could not remain silent. I said “(his name) I thought you were Christian & very active in your church with the band & other things.” He said “Well, yes I am.” Then I asked “Well what is up with all this garbage you are talking about doing & the places you plan to go?” His reply floored me. He said “I’m washed in the blood. I am assured of heaven. Nothing can separate me from God.” I was speechless. Has anyone else heard of this nonsense? How does one educate this young fellow? I like him, but what he was talking about is a path to hell. I do see him after work occasionally for a brew so the opportunity does come up from time to time.

If it helps the understanding, he goes to a “Bible only church” & is VERY active there.

And the appropriate response to that would be “does that give you an unrestricted license to commit any sins you wish?” And where’s that in the Bible?

Don’t bother to look. That’s not in there.

Ananias and his wife Acts 5:1-5 were believers and presumably baptized (or washed in His blood). See how far his credentials took him.

 

[josh987654321]

I think this is the right topic to put this under.

Looking for a little advice.

I have a young protestant fellow I work with that was in my office the other day just visiting. He knows I am Catholic. You can look at my desk & tell. Most folks there are. He was telling my officemate (there are 2 of us in this office) of some things he had been up to & some plan he had made for the weekend. They were less than proper. It was work, but I could not remain silent. I said “(his name) I thought you were Christian & very active in your church with the band & other things.” He said “Well, yes I am.” Then I asked “Well what is up with all this garbage you are talking about doing & the places you plan to go?” His reply floored me. He said “I’m washed in the blood. I am assured of heaven. Nothing can separate me from God.” I was speechless. Has anyone else heard of this nonsense? How does one educate this young fellow? I like him, but what he was talking about is a path to hell. I do see him after work occasionally for a brew so the opportunity does come up from time to time.

If it helps the understanding, he goes to a “Bible only church” & is VERY active there.

Hi Dirk Skene.

I would probably just let him know of these three versus (there are probably some more) and then let him make up his own mind with his belief in sola scriptura.
James 2:14-26:

Faith without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.

The Gospel of Matthew 7:21-23:

Concerning Self-Deception

21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’

The Gospel of Matthew 18:23-35:

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

23 “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. 24 When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; 25 and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ‘Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’ 27 And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, ‘Pay what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you.’ 30 He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt. 31 When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. 32 Then his lord summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; 33 and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ 34 And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Dirk_Skene]

…ask him what he thinks about Matthew chapter 7 verses 21 through 23, and ask him if he thinks that describes once saved always saved

I will do that.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

Hi Dirk Skene.

I would probably just let him know of these three versus (there are probably some more) and then let him make up his own mind with his belief in sola scriptura.

Hi Josh,

The references are great. Thanks.

Sola scriptura is dangerous.