I can't concentrate when I pray

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masondoggy said:
Well, at least I’m not alone, lol…🙂
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Not at all. And I might point out, mama, that recently having a baby and nursing, where both of us are at right now, will mess with your hormones, and that can influence you mentally as well. You’ve no doubt heard of ‘mommy brain’ while pregnant–that can’t remember anything feeling? Not to mention lack of sleep with little ones up to eat at night. I know I can’t concentrate well on anything anymore. I just offer it up to Jesus, and tell Him I’m doing the best I can, and I love Him, and He will have to do the rest! It got better when I had a long gap between kids, but now with 2 little ones again…I hope it will eventually go away again!
 
masondoggy said:
It is so frustrating. I’m terrible at prayer. 😦

No matter how much I try to keep my mind on meditation, whenever I pray the rosary or the Divine Mercy chaplet, my mind just wanders all over the place. It feels like I’m wasting my time.

Does anybody else struggle with this? Do my prayers still “count”?
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Constantly! St Teresa of Avila had the same problem too. She would always pray with a book to keep her mind focused. I use scripture quotes when I pray the rosary. I just let my eyes fall on the words while the other part of my brain is reciting the prayers. It really helps keep me focused on the mysteries. Pictures can help too, although if its not a “favorite” picture for that mystery then I tend to notice the flaws :o .

I’m in the process of making my own rosary book with appropriate bible verses and, eventually, prints of the mysteries as well. Its a good project and is getting me deeper into the bible.
 
 
Bennie_P said:
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We’ve been through this dozens of times.

These links are all interpretations of what Fr Keating teaches about Centering prayer, but not what Father Keating teaches.

Sorry, these are poor sources of information on centering prayer and are loaded with bias.

Go to the teacher himself, Father Keating.

centeringprayer.com/frntpage.htm

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Go to the teacher himself, Father Keating.

http://www.centeringprayer.com/frntpage.htm

Jim
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Here read the review of the site you are suggesting to go to.

Reviews (1)

Showing 1 - 1 of 1:

[* Contemplative Outreach, Ltd.
Site: www.centeringprayer.com/ (Red)
Catholic Website Review
DESCRIPTION

Contemplative Outreach defines itself as “a spiritual network of individuals and small faith communities committed to living the contemplative dimension of the Gospel in everyday life through the practice of Centering Prayer. . . . We identify with the Christian Contemplative Heritage . . . and affirm our solidarity with the contemplative dimension of other religions and sacred traditions, with the needs and rights of the whole human family, and with all creation.”
Fr. Thomas Keating is a monk, priest, and abbot, and is the founder of the Centering Prayer movement. It originated in St. Joseph’s Abbey, a Trappist monastery in Spencer, Massachusetts. During the twenty years (1961-1981) when Keating was abbot, St. Joseph’s held dialogues with Buddhist and Hindu representatives. Keating went even further by inviting a Zen master to give a week-long retreat to the monks.
Centering prayer is not compatible with Catholic tradition; its techniques are neither Christian nor prayer. They are at the level of human faculties and as such are an operation of man, not of God. The deception and dangers can be grave. The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith warned about the dangers of blending Christian prayer and Eastern methods of meditation (e.g., Zen, Transcendental Meditation and yoga). Although Some Aspects of Christian Meditation does not single out any persons or schools of thought by name, many of its warnings apply to the centering-prayer literature, including the writings of Abbot Keating and his spiritual disciple Father Basil Pennington, O.C.S.O.
The Vatican also released the document called Jesus Christ the Bearer of the Water of Life. It specifically identifies the following as New Age: Zen Buddhism, Hinduism, Yoga, Enneagram, Wicca, the Higher Self, the True Self, ALC’s, the “god within,” and TM (Transcendental Meditation).
The similarities between centering prayer and Transcendental Meditation are striking.🤷 “As an ex-TM mediator,” says Fr. Finbarr Flanagan, O.F.M., “I find it hard to see any differences between centering prayer and Transcendental Meditation.” Frs. Keating, Menninger, and Pennington authored centering prayer at a time when St. Joseph Abbey had received several retreats involving Eastern religions, including Transcendental Meditation. This involvement in eclecticism has continued. Fr. Pennington has not just attended an e.s.t (Erhard Sensitivity Training) session but has served on its board.🤷 Frs. Keating and Pennington gave endorsements, appearing on the dust jacket, for Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey in Christian Hermeticism. 🤷 The tarot is a deck of cards used in fortune telling. Fr. Keating calls the book “the greatest contribution to date toward the rediscovery and renewal of the Christian contemplative tradition.” Fr. Pennington says it is “without doubt the most extraordinary work I have ever read.” Amity House, the publisher, is heavily New Age. The Library of Congress has classified the book under “occult sciences” and “cartomancy.”🤷

STRENGTHS

None Reported.

WEAKNESSES

· Example(s)
Questionable links (Fidelity)
· Example(s)
Questionable books (Fidelity)
· Example(s)
Promotes religious indifferentism (Fidelity)
· Example(s)
New Age spirituality (Fidelity)

CATEGORIES

Issues > Cults/New Age
Catholicism > Spiritual Life
 
JimR-OCDS said:
We’ve been through this dozens of times.

These links are all interpretations of what Fr Keating teaches about Centering prayer, but not what Father Keating teaches.

Sorry, these are poor sources of information on centering prayer and are loaded with bias.

Go to the teacher himself, Father Keating.

Jim
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So you are saying that Catholic Answers,* This Rock* magazine and Catholic Culture web sites are not trusted sources? that is, they are poor sources?🤷 but what I would find at centeringprayer.com is 100 % Catholic truth?:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :dts:

We all could miss the flak if - put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places. Therefore, take unto you the armour of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day and to stand in all things perfect. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth and having on the breastplate of justice: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace. In all things taking the shield of faith, where with you may be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the most wicked one. And take unto you the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit (which is the word of God).

Just a suggestion, Bro…:rolleyes:

Love you - PAX
 
Bennie_P said:
So you are saying that Catholic Answers,* This Rock* magazine and Catholic Culture web sites are not trusted sources? that is, they are poor sources?🤷 but what I would find at centeringprayer.com is 100 % Catholic truth?:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :dts:
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When they’re talking about Centering Prayer as Fr Keating teaches it, they can not be trusted from their very words which contradict Fr. Keating’s.

Also, they’re often speaking about New Age, which Fr Keating, a Trappist Monk, is not.

Fr Keating and Fr Basil Pennington, were the originators of the term Centering Prayer and the teachers of the method, which Fr Keating has points out, originated in Lectio Divina.

You can continue to read what others say about it, or read what the originator says. If you read what others say from the post you have listed, you’ll continue to be misinformed and misguided on this subject.

I’m not going to comment further, I’ve been in this mindless marathon with you before, and it is not conducive toward spiritual growth or enrichment.

Jim
 
masondoggy said:
Well, at least I’m not alone, lol…🙂
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Another book I would suggest would be by Fr. Thomas Dubay, S.M. His book Deep Conversion Deep Prayer
He teachings are Catholic Church centered, from teachings from the Doctors of the Church - not religious indifferentism and eastern philosophies.

Here is a description -
Fr. Thomas Dubay is one of the most popular and respected retreat masters and spiritual directors in the USA. He is the author of the perennial best-selling book on prayer and contemplation, Fire Within. In this new book, he responds to the call to priests by both Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI to help believers and all those interested in spirituality to develop a deeper prayer life and union with God.
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As in his other popular writings, Dubay’s style is profound and meditative yet clear and readable. He gives an overview of the spiritual life and journey for anyone seeking to grow in the love of God and neighbor. An expert on the teachings and writings of the two great mystical doctors of prayer and the spiritual life, Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, Dubay gives solid practical advice for a deepening moral and spiritual conversion, and a radical growth in holiness.
Topics covered in depth in this book include:
  • The Radical Conversion
  • Relevance and Motivation
  • Conversion and Genuine Love
  • Degrees of Depth
  • Remarkable Resistance
  • Called to the Heights
  • Sure-fire Program
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May God bless you in your prayer life.:highprayer: :signofcross: :highprayer:
 
Bennie_P said:
Another book I would suggest would be by Fr. Thomas Dubay, S.M. His book Deep Conversion Deep Prayer
He teachings are Catholic Church centered, from teachings from the Doctors of the Church - not religious indifferentism and eastern philosophies.

Here is a description -

May God bless you in your prayer life.:highprayer: :signofcross: :highprayer:
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Fr Dubay also teaches on St. Teresa’s method of prayer in his book “The Fire Within.” In the part where St. Teresa advises those who are easily distracted, to use a word and repeat it, Fr Dubay states, “Centering Prayer is not new.”

St. Teresa’s writings are compatible with Centering Prayer. Those Catholics who do Centering Prayer, easily relate to St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross.

The fact is, Centering Prayer did not come from Eastern religion, as you state, but as Father Keating teaches, it came from Lectio Divina, which has a long tradition in the Catholic

But again, we’ve been through this before.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Fr Dubay also teaches on St. Teresa’s method of prayer in his book “The Fire Within.” In the part where St. Teresa advises those who are easily distracted, to use a word and repeat it, Fr Dubay states, “Centering Prayer is not new.”

St. Teresa’s writings are compatible with Centering Prayer. Those Catholics who do Centering Prayer, easily relate to St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross.

The fact is, Centering Prayer did not come from Eastern religion, as you state, but as Father Keating teaches, it came from Lectio Divina, which has a long tradition in the Catholic

But again, we’ve been through this before.

Jim
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Jim, Jim, Jim, I have heard dozens of hours of Fr. Dubay’s talks and he doesn’t teach what Fr Keating promotes and Fr. Dubay is critical of the type of prayer that Fr Keating calls centering prayer which is in reality religious indifferentism with the mixing of eastern philosophies into Catholic spirituality. If you really would read and listen to more of Fr Dubay’s teachings and talks you would see what I am talking about.

You know, reading St Teresa’s “Interior Castles” really fired up my prayer life and my understanding of my own ongoing conversion, it was one the many triggers of me coming into full communion with the Catholic Church. What she writes about and what Fr. Keating teaches is not the same nor compatible.

Here is an excerpt from Deep Conversion
A third motive prompting conversion for many lies in the simple facts of history. Jesus founded only one Church and to her alone he committed his authority and promises: “As the Father has sent me, so I send you … He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects you, rejects me … I am with you all days even to the end of time” (Jn 20:2 1; Lk 10: 16; Mt 28:20). This is bedrock evidence convincingly rooted in Sacred Scripture and the twenty centuries following Jesus’ birth.

Another dimension of history is the fourth reason for many conversions.

***Jesus’ Church teaches everything ***that he taught with no omissions or alterations to suit the moods of differing times and places.

No cafeteria picking and choosing.

Unfortunately all groups who through the centuries have left this ecclesia, while they retain some doctrines and moral precepts, have left others aside.

People like Newman who study ecclesiastical history are aware of this symphony of beauty. They are struck with the wholeness, the unity and the inner radiance of divine revelation as it is preserved in the magisterial office established by Jesus himself Honest intellectuals seem especially attracted to the coherence, completeness and consistency of this otherworldly phenomenon.
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You don’t have to agree with me, but I challenge you to read as much of Fr Dubay’s writings, re-read St Teresa’s writings and go to EWTN’s audio library and download the different series he has taught on prayer, St Teresa, St John of the Cross and listen to them over a period of weeks, without trying to refer it all to Fr Keating’s work during that period of time.

Myself, I have already done the Eastern religion thing and I never found such freedom as I do with the Doctors of the Church and the teachings of the Christ himself.

PAX
 
Bennie_P said:
Jim, Jim, Jim, I have heard dozens of hours of Fr. Dubay’s talks and he doesn’t teach what Fr Keating promotes and Fr. Dubay is critical of the type of prayer that Fr Keating calls centering prayer which is in reality religious indifferentism with the mixing of eastern philosophies into Catholic spirituality. If you really would read and listen to more of Fr Dubay’s teachings and talks you would see what I am talking about.

You know, reading St Teresa’s “Interior Castles” really fired up my prayer life and my understanding of my own ongoing conversion, it was one the many triggers of me coming into full communion with the Catholic Church. What she writes about and what Fr. Keating teaches is not the same nor compatible.

Here is an excerpt from Deep Conversion

You don’t have to agree with me, but I challenge you to read as much of Fr Dubay’s writings, re-read St Teresa’s writings and go to EWTN’s audio library and download the different series he has taught on prayer, St Teresa, St John of the Cross and listen to them over a period of weeks, without trying to refer it all to Fr Keating’s work during that period of time.

Myself, I have already done the Eastern religion thing and I never found such freedom as I do with the Doctors of the Church and the teachings of the Christ himself.

PAX
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I have read and listen to Fr Dubay. He doesn’t attack CP but everything he says in contained in Centering Prayer. I’ve also read all of St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross’s works. I was doing Centering Prayer before reading them and I immediately connected what they wrote with CP. Also, I’m a Secular Order Discalced Caremlite, and I have spoke with my spiritual assistants about CP, over the years. They have no problem with it and my last SA, did CP himself.

Your experience in Eastern Religion is what has you confused about Centering Prayer. You continue to assert that CP is of Eastern origin, it is not. If your reading New Age interpretations, thats an different thing and not what Fr Keating teacehs.

You really need to read Fr. Keating’s books, it will help you to over come bias and perhaps stop you from making broad based accusations about Centering Prayer.

In Christ
Jim
 
masondoggy said:
It is so frustrating. I’m terrible at prayer. 😦

No matter how much I try to keep my mind on meditation, whenever I pray the rosary or the Divine Mercy chaplet, my mind just wanders all over the place. It feels like I’m wasting my time.

Does anybody else struggle with this? Do my prayers still “count”?
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Hi,

I can help you with your struggle:)

There are 3 stages you need to follow :
  1. PREPARATION
PLACE YOURSELF IN GOD’S PRESENCE : NIGH ART THOU,O LORD AND ALL MY WAYS ARE EVER IN THY SIGHT.

ADORE GOD : THOU ART GREAT,I AM NOTHING.THOU ART GOOD,I AM SINFUL.THOU ART LIGHT,I AM DARKNESS.

ASK FOR GOD’S LIGHT : GIVE ME LIGHT TO SEE THY HOLY WILL AND GRACE TO DO IT.WISDOM OF THE SACRED HEAD OF JESUS,DIRECT ME IN ALL MY WAYS.LIGHT OF SACRED COUNTENANCE OF JESUS,SHINE DOWN UPON ME.LOVE OF THE SACRED HEART,CONSUME ME IN THY FIRE.

HAIL MARY…

ST.JOSEPH,MY ANGEL GUARDIAN,MY PATRON SAINTS,PRAY FOR ME.

2)MEDITATION

READ THE FIRST POINT,OR READ UNTIL A THOUGHT COMES TO YOU THAT IS IN SOME WAY STRIKING.THEN,IN YOUR OWN WAY,TALK TO GOD :

-MAKE ACTS OF FAITH,GRATITUDE,HUMILITY,HOPE,LOVE,OR SORROW FOR SIN
-ASK GOD FOR LIGHT,HUMILITY OR SOME OTHER VIRTUE SUGGESTED BY YOUR MEDITATION,LOVE,PERSEVERANCE,AND SO FORTH.
-MAKE RESOLUTIONS TO DEVELOP VIRTUES,AVOID OCCASIONS OF SIN,OVERCOME DEFECTS,BEAR VEXATIONS,AND SO FORTH

CONTINUE FOR EACH POINT YOU CONSIDER,BEARING IN MIND THAT YOUR OBJECT SHOULD BE,NOT READ THROUGH THE WHOLE PAGE,BUT TO PRAY,STOP READING AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO GO ON WITH.CONTINUE TO PRAY AS LONG AS YOU FIND YOURSELF IN TOUCH WITH GOD

3)CONCLUSION

THANK GOD FOR LIGHT BESTOWED

RESOLVE TO KEEP YOUR RESOLUTIONS

ASK GOD FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS TO KEEP YOU AWAY FROM OCCASIONS OF SIN

SAY AN OUR FATHER AND A HAIL MARY FOR SOULS IN PURGATORY,FOR SINNERS,FOR FRIENDS,FOR RELATIONS,FOR THE CHURCH,AND SO FORTH

May these all help you to concentrate praying.

God bless!
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I have read and listen to Fr Dubay. He doesn’t attack CP but everything he says in contained in Centering Prayer. I’ve also read all of St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross’s works. I was doing Centering Prayer before reading them and I immediately connected what they wrote with CP. Also, I’m a Secular Order Discalced Caremlite, and I have spoke with my spiritual assistants about CP, over the years. They have no problem with it and my last SA, did CP himself.

Your experience in Eastern Religion is what has you confused about Centering Prayer. You continue to assert that CP is of Eastern origin, it is not. If your reading New Age interpretations, thats an different thing and not what Fr Keating teacehs.

You really need to read Fr. Keating’s books, it will help you to over come bias and perhaps stop you from making broad based accusations about Centering Prayer.

In Christ
Jim
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Well I would trust your judgement, but one of Fr Keatings running partners causes me to balk to trust that judgement, which is Richard Rohr. and I know I don’t trust his judgement or teachings one iota. and in all good conscience I will have to disagree with you that centering prayer is not religious indifferentism and the mixing of eastern philosophies with Christianity and your suggestions concerning the use of it is troubling. It really brings pain into my heart, that so many within the Church have a need to find peace outside of the Church teachings or bring other faith traditions into our Church and delude our Catholic faith. Our faith tradition is so rich and full without the need to look to Eastern philosophers and religions inorder to find God.

**2007 Annual Conference of **

**Contemplative Outreach, Ltd. **Contemplative Vision: Awakening to Beauty, Truth and Goodness
with Fr Thomas Keating and Fr Richard Rohr
**Sept. 26-28 **
**Special Days of Enrichment **Sept 28-Sept 30
Houston, Texas
http://www.centeringprayer.com/images/keatingrohr2006.jpg
Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil thy ministry. Be sober. 2 Tim 4:2 -5
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In Him, For Him, Through Only Him,
Bennie P
PAX
 
Bennie P
Well I would trust your judgement, but one of Fr Keatings running partners causes me to balk to trust that judgement, which is Richard Rohr. and I know I don’t trust his judgement or teachings one iota.
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I know nothing about Fr Richard Rohr, nor do I see that he is, as you put it, “Fr Keatings running partner.” They both belong to different religious orders and just because they both spoke at an event, doesn’t place them in agreement. But I haven’t read Richard Rohr’s stuff, so I don’t really know what he’s about.
and in all good conscience I will have to disagree with you that centering prayer is not religious indifferentism and the mixing of eastern philosophies with Christianity and your suggestions concerning the use of it is troubling. It really brings pain into my heart, that so many within the Church have a need to find peace outside of the Church teachings or bring other faith traditions into our Church and delude our Catholic faith. Our faith tradition is so rich and full without the need to look to Eastern philosophers and religions inorder to find God.
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But thats because you continue to insist that Centering Prayer comes out of Eastern Religion, it doesn’t. As Fr Keating wrote, it comes out of the tradition of Lectio Divina.

You seem to come across as though you read what **others **say about what Father Keating teaches on Centering Prayer and Contemplation, but apparently have not read what he actually teaches. From the post you link, they talk about New Age, not Father Keating. Those who talk about Father Keating, never interviewed him and what they say about Centering Prayer, comes from outside sources other than Father Keating.

Father Keating isn’t teaching anything other than the rich traditions from Catholicism. He compares those traditions to Eastern disciplines, only to show people that they don’t have to go to Eastern religions to learn how to meditate or follow an ascetic lifestyle.

Its been in the Catholic Church all along.

Peace
Jim
 
Maybe try a more engaging form of prayer that requires active mental (name removed by moderator)ut, such as the Ignatian method, where your prayer goes through on 5 clearly specified stages in a single hour, including a vivid placing yourself in the scene by using all of your senses. For example, with the Crucifixion, you would make a mental picture of who was there, what they were wearing, where they were standing/sitting, was there a crowd? Were they cheering? Sad? Frightened? Was it hot? How did John relate to Our Lady? How did the soldiers relate to the crowd? Can you smell the sweat? Hear the blood dropping onto the dust? . . . …

Distractions are less likely when you are mentally engaged than when you are praying a rosary or attempting centering prayer.

You can find stuff on Ignatian Spirituality if you google it.
 
Reading St Teresa of Jesus is good material and you can even read it online free or download her works onto to your computer from Christian Classics Ethereal Library! ccel.org/ccel/teresa/way.i.html

The Way of Perfection Chapter 17

St. Teresa of Jesus
So it does not follow that, because all of us in this house practise prayer, we are all perforce to be contemplatives. That is impossible; and those of us who are not would be greatly discouraged if we did not grasp the truth that contemplation is something given by God, and, as it is not necessary for salvation and God does not ask it of us before He gives us our reward, we must not suppose that anyone else will require it of us. We shall not fail to attain perfection if we do what has been said here; we may, in fact, gain much more merit, because what we do will cost us more labour; the Lord will be treating us like those who are strong and will be laying up for us all that we cannot enjoy in this life. Let us not be discouraged, then, and give up prayer or cease doing what the rest do; for the Lord sometimes tarries long, and gives us as great rewards all at once as He has been giving to others over many years.
I myself spent over fourteen years without ever being able to meditate except while reading. There must be many people like this, and others who cannot meditate even after reading, but can only recite vocal prayers, in which they chiefly occupy themselves and take a certain pleasure. Some find their thoughts wandering so much that they cannot concentrate upon the same thing, but are always restless, to such an extent that, if they try to fix their thoughts upon God, they are attacked by a thousand foolish ideas and scruples and doubts concerning the Faith.
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Even Saints struggled with concentration!
 
Instead of focusing on the mystery as a picture or a phrase during the recitation of the Rosary. Try to listen to the Holy Spirit as you would a person telling you something. He will slowly reveal the mystery and your prayer will come alive. It doesn’t matter if your thoughts get off track, because often this is often how he speaks. Also ask Our Lady to pray with you before you begin. Her prayers will make up for anything that you think is lacking in yours and transform yours into beautiful jewels before Our Lord.
 
masondoggy said:
It is so frustrating. I’m terrible at prayer. 😦

No matter how much I try to keep my mind on meditation, whenever I pray the rosary or the Divine Mercy chaplet, my mind just wanders all over the place. It feels like I’m wasting my time.

Does anybody else struggle with this? Do my prayers still “count”?
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keep praying, yes your prayer counts.
above all do not use this as an excuse to stop praying.
commit whatever time you feel is reasonable and prudent to prayer daily, keep up your commitment no matter what. It is for God to decide whether or not time devoted to Him is wasted, not for you to judge how fruitful the time was.
 
In her magnum opus, “The Interior Castle,” St. Teresa of Avila speaks of this during meditation and contemplative prayer. She states that this is normal and one should pay no attention to it and one cannot control the thoughts moving through their mind than they can the wind. She goes on to say that the soul is engaged in prayer and knows that it is so engaged and so does God and it is important to realize that when distractions occur it is better to just acknowledge them and move on while remembering the reason for prayer is to communicate with God.

She has this prayer…

Now is the time for prayer
Now nothing else is important to me
Now no one else is important to me
Except God and God alone.
 
Well, here’s my big question…

I pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet every night when I get in bed for the souls in purgatory. (I know, I know, don’t wait until bedtime but that’s really the only quiet time I get to actually THINK:eek: ). Anyways, do my prayers really do the souls in purgatory any good when I keep getting distracted or worse, fall asleep? (like last night, I just realized today I need to go in and hunt for the rosary because I must’ve dropped it in my sleep. :rolleyes: …).

Or are my prayers wasted for their benefit?
 
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