I can't help it...have to ask again!

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Paris Blues:
From a Christian group that I joined long before I pursued Catholicism. I asked them if I should attend a CC (because that’s when I was starting to pursue Catholicism) and thought maybe some of them were Catholic (but found that out much later!) and would give me good advice but no, they told me don’t, it’s a bunch of lies, etc. so I went ahead anyway and came back and told them, there’s nothing so wrong with the CC!!! 😉
After I said that, that’s when they started bombarding me with all these opinions, etc. I didn’t want to and had NO intention to debate them but since I am convinced the CC IS THE CHURCH, I had to because of the weird things they’ve said!!

Maybe I need to drop from the group, eh?
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Yes, you do need to drop them. You need to find a good Catholic group to study the Bible and the Faith with. Contact your parish Adult Education office.
 
For someone learning about their faith those groups are bent on trying to do anything to convince you otherwise. Generally once someone replies with logical answers and starts asking questions of thier own, these type of people change the subject or don’t want to talk about it.
I would ask them politely to give you time to pray about it and look for the truth, they should be able to agree to talking with you later if you want to.
They really don’t want to talk to any informed Catholic as this will just wreck havoc with their theology.

I really suggest you go to this website and get some of these free tapes. They are very simple for beginners and will give you clear answers and confidence.

www.biblechristiansociety.com

I continued on my journey, and couldn’t be happier to be a Catholic. Now I just wish my seperated bretheren would try and evangelize me so I can evangelize them, but unfortunately they seem to have lost the taste for talking about religion.
 
Paris Blues:
I’m trying to read more, etc. about the Faith, if I ask, I feel a little better!) and below are the EXACT quotes that they’ve said:
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Hi Paris Blues,
Re Peter and the rock business. See Ephesians 2:20 “Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone. 2:22 In whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place for God in the spirit.”

No one person is the rock. You also (Paris Blues) will become a building block in His temple. So celibrate Paris, give glory to God and to Him alone, as God and Christ and the Holy Spirit. No one else. We were born to be God’s temple, those who believe and submit to His will so we can be of one mind. Now God is love so we must be as He is. To be love we need spiritual help.
In Christ there is freedom.
Every Christian church be it Roman Catholic or protestant believes in God , Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Are you happy in your heart with this? If you are do this then and forget the other. Then , please believe me, just pray to God as Jesus directed. Ask for the Holy Spirit in your life. Trust Jesus and the Holy Spirit to care for you if you are sincere. Christ will teach you. Do not bind yourself to anything other than God , Christ and the Holy Spirit. Attend a church of your choice but dont allow yourself to be subject to rules which differ to your heart. Just trust in Him and Him alone. As you need to know, He will direct you.
Please stop worrying and start worshiping only Him. He will grow in you and bring joy and peace and life in abundance.
walk in love
edwinG
 
Hi, Paris: You have received answers to the points so I looked once again at your post opener to maybe lend a hand in a different area.

Sorry I haven’t read some of your other posts referred to in the thread title, but maybe it may strengthen you to think of Jesus in His Life on earth. Think about the Gospel of Luke when he says Jesus grew in maturity and more. Even at the well known age of twelve, and remembering Jesus would have bar mitzvahed when His parents went to Jerusalem for the Passover feast, He returned to their home in Nazareth and lived under their authority. His public mission didn’t begin for decades after this event in Jerusalem.

Not only you, but all of us are enjoined to “put on Christ.” There is no reason for any of us to exalt ourselves that once we have entered the Church, or pursue entering into life with Christ, that we are greater than He was when He was a child.

Even later during His ministry time, He taught that He was the Good Shepherd. Thanks be to God that He told Peter in the Gospel of John to be a shepherd to Jesus’ flock, and concerned for the flock - not as a hired man.

Jesus is the Gate, and He also was the Paraclete. Jn 14: 16 says Jesus will ask the Father Who will give another Paraclete; Jesus has also, after His Resurrection, entrusted Peter with the responsibility of shepherd - to feed, to rule, and to guard.

Think on this when you receive an email and I pray that the peace which the Lord truly gives will be a balm to your soul.
God bless.

editted to add that I didn’t mean to imply that Jesus was bar mitzvahed at the time they went to Jerusalem, because frankly I have no idea if that happened at that time, or earlier in Nazareth. I realized my sentence structure gave that impression. Sorry about that.
 
Is it true that Catholics believe that faith without works is dead and vice versa? I mean, do Catholics take James 2:17-26 to prove it?
 
We do not believe in the idea of faith alone. Jesus told the rich man to do specific things in order to achieve eternal life. While James bolsters this, Catholics rely upon the words of Christ - afterall, He is the Truth, right?🙂
 
Paris Blues:
Is it true that Catholics believe that faith without works is dead and vice versa? I mean, do Catholics take James 2:17-26 to prove it?
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Works without faith have no merit.

It isn’t only James that shows faith without works is dead. How about Luke 10? Lawyer asks what he must do to inherit eternal life, and the Lord asks his understanding of it. The lawyer correctly responds with the great commandment.

Immediately after Jesus gives the parable of the Good Samaritan.
The last line of the parable says “Go and do likewise.”

So, yes, faith without works is dead. There is no life within it. Luke 6: 46 - 49 essentially says the disciple of the Lord needs to hear, and to do.
 
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LSK:
We do not believe in the idea of faith alone. Jesus told the rich man to do specific things in order to achieve eternal life. While James bolsters this, Catholics rely upon the words of Christ - afterall, He is the Truth, right?🙂
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So then Catholics believe that you must have faith AND works. Right? It’s not grace alone and no works or faith alone, right?
 
However, I tell them that Catholics do not WORSHIP Mary or the saints!:nope: How many times do I have to tell them that?:banghead:

Though they come back with, “well, praying IS a form of worship so when you pray to God, you’re worshipping!” something like that!
 
So then Catholics believe that you must have faith AND works. Right? It’s not grace alone and no works or faith alone, right?
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Not quite, Paris. It’s grace alone which is manifested in our faith and the works God gives us to do in our daily lives; if we choose to reject His promptings of grace to do His work we are held accountable for rejecting those graces.
 
This will be the last quote from me for awhile! LOL!!

"The Catholic Church has a long history of “worshiping dead saints”, of purgatory, of saying that they are the true church, of not liking the Jewish nation, of persecuting those who believed in the Word of God back during the middle and dark ages, of honoring Mary and calling her the “Mother of God”. The list goes on."

I thought the Catholic Church LOVED ALL nations!!! We love our Jewish brothers and sisters! How dare that person say such a lie! That quite angered me! What about you guys?
 
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FCEGM:
Not quite, Paris. It’s grace alone which is manifested in our faith and the works God gives us to do in our daily lives; if we choose to reject His promptings of grace to do His work we are held accountable for rejecting those graces.
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Oh I see. 😃 So it’s the grace that gives us the faith to do good works? Is that what it’s like?

See, I hear that James 2 scripture from Catholics and I keep thinking to the scripture…but that’s for the correction…I just need to read more and be careful because there could be Catholics out there being “fake” Catholics and not telling me the whole truth, see. Bummer!:crying:
 
I’ll address their statements.

“Neither is she [Mary]a help to us, she is dead and in heaven and no longer accessible to us. Hebrews tells us that Christ is our intercessor and He ALONE.”

+++The Bible tells us that those who die in Christ live and do not die. Therefore Mary is still alive.

+++The Bible tells us that we are to do on earth what is done in heaven and that Jesus is our model. The Bible also tells us that we are God’s co-workers. Therefore, if Christ is our intecessor in heaven, we will also intercede for each other in heaven. Because the Saints in heaven have gotten there because they are perfect imitators of Christ.

“When Yeshua told Peter His church would be built “on this rock”, what “rock” was He referring to?* Remember the question He asked Peter first?* He asked Peter, “Who do you say I am?”* He wanted Peter (becauseYeshua knew what Peter would saybefore Peter ever answered) to truly understand the foundation of His teachings.* Peter answered, “You are the Son of G-d.”* It was then that Yeshua said, “On this rock…” (the rock being the saving knowledge and faith that Yeshua is the Son of G-d) “…I will build my church.”* The rock Yeshua was talking about was not, as many have been taught, Peter, himself, but Peter’s unwavering faith.* Perhaps you would be willing to think and pray about what I have said and see if your spirit might not testify to what I have said?”

+++Actually what He said to Peter is "Simon son of Jonah, you are rock. " Then He said, "upon this rock I will build my Church.

First Jesus identified the Rock, Peter and then He said what He would do upon that Rock.

I would like to add that it does no harm to Catholic doctrine to believe that Jesus is the Rock. He is. But in this instance, He designates Peter as the Rock to make a point. Up to this point in faith history, only God (hundreds of times) and Abraham (once) had been referred to as the Rock. Jesus is making the point that Peter is like Abraham and like Himself. Peter will be the Spiritual Father of Nations, the Papa or Pope, and it is to Peter that we will have recourse when Jesus ascends into heaven. Peter will feed the sheep, Peter will strengthen his brethren.

“Nicole Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit when he left and told us that the Holy Spirit would lead us to truth, to worship, the Holy Spirit is the embodiment of Christ, they together are GOD.
So it is not accurate to say that God uses or needs man to lead his church, remember when he told the Pharisees that he could raise stones to worship him? That thing about building the church on peter is heresy and goes against God in the most foul manner possible! The church is built on Christ and when Christ said this to Peter he was referring to the faith Peter expressed in the verses before that, faith that Christ himself gave him and nothing of Peter’s. Why Peter wasn’t even the beloved apostle but perhaps the most volatile and*impulsive among the lot, if God were to choose a single member of his Apostles it would not have been Peter. Please go back and read that verse in its context and stop following CC one liners, danger lies there.”

+++If that were true then how do this person explain Jesus’ saying to Peter, “Do you love me more than these?” “Feed My Sheep.”

Read the Bible again and note that Peter is mentioned first amongst the apostles almost every time. Only once or twice is he not mentioned first.

to be continued

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
cont’d

“Do you really think you’ll go to someplace called Purgatory when you die? Please so me something to support that.There is only one thing that can cleanse us of our sins. That is the Blood of Jesus.”

+++Have him read 1 Cor 3:10 through 15.

No, I’m not shooting for Purgatory, I’m shooting for Heaven. It is comforting to know however, that if I fall and commit venial sin, I won’t be condemned to hell but will be cleansed by the Blood of Jesus which I partake of in every Mass. Jesus said, “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood will have life eternal.” Have you partaken of Jesus’ blood lately?

"I was taken back by one comment of yours and I think that perhaps you didn’t mean it but were in a moment of high emotion. You said: You also said that "Catholics say that Protestants aren’t getting the “fullness”, [and this is what Catholics have told me so that’s why I told the people!] to which I ask you *has any of these counselors ever explained what they mean by that? I find it confusing and therefore of interest. In various forms of protestants there are those of the full gospel who certainly would disagree with the thought that THEY don’t have the fullness.

+++The fullness of the Gospel not only in the doctrines and teachings but especially in the graces given by God is not received by in its fullness by anyone who willfully remains outside the Catholic Church.

A very simple example is the tremendous grace of having the Eucharistic meal. The meal which the Bible says is “our daily bread” and of which Jesus says, “that bread is my flesh for the life of the world.”

No, nonCatholics do not have the fullness of the Gospel.

"But all forms of protestant worship have .
*
And for your information Catholics were NOT the first church nor the first body. You would do well to investigate the Eastern Orthodox church,**they may dare to*suggest that they were the first body, truth is they and the Catholics were one but there were those in the western parts that began to stir up the idea of the Papacy with the notion that the Pope was infallible.
*
+++I have no quarrel with the Eastern Orthodox. The Catholic Church teaches that their Sacraments and their Orders are valid. Therefore their Church is valid.

“But not even that was the beginning Nicole. What your Catholic friends are not telling you and what you are not researching for yourself in this matter of eternal consequence is that there NEVER really was a single body of Christians. From the very beginning there were factions and people with various interpretations. Have a look at this material I have collected on your behalf.”

Yeah, there was one body, one doctrine in the beginning. But from the beginning the Apostles were fighting to keep it together.

The Bible says, “Even if an angel should bring you a different Gospel, let him be anathema.”

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
Paris Blues:
This will be the last quote from me for awhile! LOL!!

"The Catholic Church has a long history of “worshiping dead saints”, of purgatory, of saying that they are the true church, of not liking the Jewish nation, of persecuting those who believed in the Word of God back during the middle and dark ages, of honoring Mary and calling her the “Mother of God”. The list goes on."

I thought the Catholic Church LOVED ALL nations!!! We love our Jewish brothers and sisters! How dare that person say such a lie! That quite angered me! What about you guys?
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Paris, anger is your enemy.

You might reply:

Congratulations! You are partly correct! The Catholic Church does lovingly venerate her holy saints, does believe in purgatory, is the true Church, and honors the Mother of God.

But you will have to show me how the Church theologically “doesn’t like the Jewish nation,” and I want credible evidence of how the Church persecuted those “who believed in the Word of God during the middle and dark ages.” Fighting heresy is not persecution, it is defending the truth. The heresies fought by the Church in those times were just plain bizarre and had nothing whatever to do with “the Word of God.”
 
quote=Paris Blues:

So we see it is a dangerous and inaccurate concept to make a sweeping statement that the Catholics were the first church, FACT is that there were not. They have no claim to Peter, none. They did not even follow his lineage. It is just plain wrong to say that there was EVER a single church, way or assembly because from the very beginning we see people - even the Apostles - in disagreement on what was the proper view of Christ and the church of Christ.No amount of wishing it were different will change the facts of history, we can only try to cover up the facts or rewrite them and hope we fool everyone around us. From the beginning there were various factions, groups of people who believed in Christ and yet differed on the details. Constantine, after his conversion DECLARED Christianity to be THE religion of the Roman Empire (that is quite a story in itself, from killing Christians to proclaiming that Christianity was the OFFICIAL religion) of that groupor sect the RCC and Eastern Orthodox broke apart over the western portion (RCC) saying that one human was to be the head of the church (Pope) and was somehow at coronation by humans suddenly made to be infallible. So Nicole, you see, there NEVER was a single church that was RCC, sorry dear but that is a lie that some would say is from the pits of Hell itself although I would not go that far. So, no single church, no breaking off of the ONE TRUE Church, there never*was a single RCC, it just ain’t so … sorry but the truth is what it is and not what we WANT it to be. I encourage you to do your own research/homework and stop listening to those who would tell you that it all began with ONE church … history shows otherwise, YOUR BIBLE shows otherwise."
[/quote]

Actually the Bible and History show that the Catholic Church is the One True Church of Christ.

1st. the Bible does not teach Sola Scriptura. It teaches that we should believe the Church (Matt 18:17) and that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Time 3:15) and that we should obey those which God placed in authority over us. Sola Scriptura is not taught in the Bible.

2nd. the Bible teaches us that the True Church will feed us our daily bread, the bread which is Jesus’ flesh for the life of the world (John 6) if we eat His flesh and drink His blood we will have life everlasting (1 Cor 10).

3rd. The Bible teaches us that the Apostles can forgive our sins, Jesus said, “whose sins you forgive they are forgiven whose sins you retain are retained.” How can the Apostles forgive or retain without confession.
  1. Baptism (John 3), Confirmation (Acts 2) and all the other sacraments are in the Bible.
  2. Sola fide is not in the Bible except where James (2) says, “Faith without works is dead, being alone.”
To be steeped in History is to cease to be Protestant. If you read your history from any vantage point except the rewritten history put out by many Protestants, you will find corroboration of the fact that the Church was the first and therefore the True Church of Christ.
So I should’ve never said anything to them in the first place and I was stupid enough to not know the Faith well enough or I was misinformed by “fake” Catholics or whatever! But see what I mean? They make it sound like the CC is a pile of horse **** (excuse my French but I’m making a very serious point here and am to the point where I had to say that). Boy, I’ll make sure I know the Faith!
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Don’t panic. This is a great opportunity to learn your faith. The Catholic Church has the answer.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
De Maria:
Don’t panic. This is a great opportunity to learn your faith. The Catholic Church has the answer.

Sincerely,

De Maria
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Maybe this was a “happy mistake” when I told them about me attending a Catholic parish, etc. and they’re on my case about this and that (I’ll admit I have to laugh when I think about it!:rolleyes: ) and this might give me a good oppurtunity to become EVEN MORE familiar with the history and faith, etc. However, being a college student doesn’t let me do a lot of research though but I try to do the best I can. Thanks for your help guys!
 
So it’s the grace that gives us the faith to do good works? Is that what it’s like?
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Paris, we receive both the grace to believe and grace to work according to what we believe. Both are gifts from God to form us into true images of His Son. The “first” grace establishes our identity in Him; the “second” continues our growth into that identity, thus we cannot presume on the “first” grace by ignoring the “second.” 🙂
 
Paris Blues:
I thought the Catholic Church LOVED ALL nations!!! We love our Jewish brothers and sisters! How dare that person say such a lie! That quite angered me! What about you guys?
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How come no one ever brings up how it was Protestants who were in charge of and responsible for the brutal slavery in America? Likewise, the one of the most hateful groups of all, the KKK (founded originally as an anti-Catholic organization I believe) is made up of Protestants. The Protestants were responsible for the Salem witch trials. Oh wait, I’m sorry, only Catholics sin. My bad.:mad:
 
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