I can't help it

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Pope_Noah_I

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The concept of refraining from sexual activity (even in marriage, during infertile periods) weighs heavily on my mind. I read the Catechism, I read chunks of Humane Vitae. I have yet to look at Theology of the Body. I want to accept the Church’s teachings on this subject, but everytime I think I’m about to accept it, I feel “wrong.” I talked to my Priest, and he says I’m worrying over nothing, but I’m actually losing sleep over it. I don’t want to be at odds with my beloved Church, whom I would die for, but I can’t for whatever reason bring myself to accept the Church’s teachings on sex. It doesn’t feel like pride or stubborness. I just want the truth. Any advice?
 
God gave “it” to us purely as a gift. Whether we use it is entirely up to us, but if we are to use it, God only asks that we use His gift in its proper context.
 
Married couples are not required to have sex anytime, ever, for any reason, as long as both spouses are in agreement not to have sex at that time.

This means that if spouses decide not to have sex at a particular time because they would rather watch TV, because they would rather read a book, because it is the wife’s fertile time and they do not want to try to achieve a pregnancy at that time, or for any other reason in which they are in agreement, then they don’t have to have sex at that time. Period.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
The concept of refraining from sexual activity (even in marriage, during infertile periods) weighs heavily on my mind. I read the Catechism, I read chunks of Humane Vitae. I have yet to look at Theology of the Body. I want to accept the Church’s teachings on this subject, but everytime I think I’m about to accept it, I feel “wrong.” I talked to my Priest, and he says I’m worrying over nothing, but I’m actually losing sleep over it. I don’t want to be at odds with my beloved Church, whom I would die for, but I can’t for whatever reason bring myself to accept the Church’s teachings on sex. It doesn’t feel like pride or stubborness. I just want the truth. Any advice?
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You need to examine, not the what and why of the Church’s teaching on sex, but the what and why of your “feeling wrong” about the Church’s teaching.

It is, most likely, pride and stubborness! You just want the truth? You already have the truth, you just don’t want to accept it.

You don’e want to be at odds with the Church? Then, accept its’ teaching! It is concupicense that is working within you that makes you feel “wrong” about accepting the teachings on sex. In other words, you want to do wrong and not be wrong!

Face it, we are all proud and stubborn in one way or another, and we will be until death. We must struggle all our lives to practice virtue. Just keep telling yourself “The Church is right and I’m wrong!”
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
The concept of refraining from sexual activity (even in marriage, during infertile periods) weighs heavily on my mind. I read the Catechism, I read chunks of Humane Vitae. I have yet to look at Theology of the Body. I want to accept the Church’s teachings on this subject, but everytime I think I’m about to accept it, I feel “wrong.”
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Does the concept of refraining from food weigh as heavily on your mind? Christ told His followers, “When you fast…” He later said, “But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.” Fasting, that is, refraining from food, is an expected part of the Christian life. But does this concept weigh as heavily on your mind as refraining from sexual activity? Why not? Isn’t food more central (and important!) to our continued existence than sexual activity?

Paul even approves the idea of abstaining from sex to focus on God:
The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
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So if that reconciles to you the idea of abstaining from sex to focus on God, much like abstaining from food (fasting) to focus on God, then we should consider the issue of prudence. How do you feel about abstaining from food to attain some good (for instance, the loss of weight)? Is it morally good to diet in order to achieve a normal weight? Does that concept weigh heavily on your mind? If not, consider the concept of abstaining from sexual relations in order to attain a good, that is, prudent family planning: is this not the same thing as abstaining from food (dieting) in order to attain a similar good? How does it differ, such that one concept should weigh heavily on your mind and the other not?

Jeremy
 
Interesting.

I think it’s OK to struggle with these issues; I find the same struggle myself, and go back to “fides quarens intellectum”, faith seeing understanding.

Intellectually, one can understand and assent to Church teachings but at the same time struggle with them; there may be no easy or (soon) forthcoming resolution for you, and that’s OK.

It’s OK to struggle and I would suggest that you try to get comfortable with these issues not being (yet) resolved for you, if that makes sense. In other words, being comfortable with not having resolved the issue.

Pray about it, and re-read what you’ve read already, as well as more resources. This is an issue that you (or any of us) cannot resolve without the help of the Holy Spirit. 👍
 
St. Paul had his struggles as well…
  • We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.*
    Romans 7:14-25
    ​
 
I have also struggled with this, being divorced and alone and longing for some “companionship” at times. But I have to trust that the Magisterium knows better than I do about these things. I can’t just follow my conscience, because I have come to realize that my conscience is flawed. This isn’t the easiest pill to swallow, but it’s part of the dying to self that Jesus requires of us.
 
After being addicted to porn and immoral thought patterns for a long time, finding out about the Catholic teachings on sex, accompanied by great chastity talks and christopher’s west’s explanations of theology of the body, I am actually glad and really see the true meaning behind sex and how beautiful it is. Not ever been down the immoral road after getting to know properly the Catholic teaching, been free from it from a while and I’m glad and fully agree with the church.🙂

What exactly are your disagreements, which issues specifically? Why do you believe it’s wrong?
 
Basically, sex when conception is not likely or possible. I disagree with it intensly. I think that abstinance should be useed all the time. Save for the cause of procreation.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
Basically, sex when conception is not likely or possible. I disagree with it intensly. I think that abstinance should be useed all the time. Save for the cause of procreation.
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Your proposition raises some interesting questions:
Would married couples have to stop having sex when they’re older. Would infertile couples not be allowed to marry because they wouldn’t be able to consumate the marriage? What about couples who choose not to use NFP, do they sin by not knowing they’re having sex at a fertile time?

You may want to do more research into the unitive aspects of sex rather than just the procreative. It’s important not to separate them. I’ll concede that NFP can be used in a contraceptive manner which I think is your biggest concern, but that doesn’t mean that a couple who chooses to abstain from having sex when they’re most fertile isn’t open to life when they do participate in the marital act.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
Basically, sex when conception is not likely or possible. I disagree with it intensly. I think that abstinance should be useed all the time. Save for the cause of procreation.
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Well the Bible has said not to deny the spouse, and I think the reason is quite evident. Humans are sexual beings and a man and woman in a marriage will want intimacy, so to put off sex for a long time is creating tension and an atmosphere that is very good for sinning, one may want to abstinate and the other may not want to, and tensions for long periods of time may have one resorting to inappropriate means (affairs, masturbation, lustful thoughts, porn, etc)

Even in the case that both want to practice abstinence, this is a good thing, but not continuously abstinating until you decide you want a child, marriage is both unitive and creative, so you aren’t going to bond with your spouse very much if the only time you are intimate is when you are creating. ’
 
JFonseka said:
Even in the case that both want to practice abstinence, this is a good thing, but not continuously abstinating until you decide you want a child, marriage is both unitive and creative, so you aren’t going to bond with your spouse very much if the only time you are intimate is when you are creating. ’
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I think this is the type of language that concerns Noah. I don’t know if it was intentional, but it implies that Catholic couples can use NFP as contracption so they can have babies when they want. This is incorrect. The time to decide whether or not you want a baby is before you get married. When you’re married NFP can be used to responsibly manage your family, but couples should only abstain during their fertile periods for long periods of time when they have a serious reason to do so (financial concerns, health concerns, etc).
 
brianwalden said:
Would infertile couples not be allowed to marry because they wouldn’t be able to consumate the marriage?
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Just in regards to this, Fr. Vincent Serpa replied to this post not along ago:

Question
Must a marriage be consummated to be considered valid? Or is it just the ability to consummate that makes it valid?
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In our Engaged Encounter, a priest said it must be consummated. However, I was under the impression it was just the ability to consummate that makes the marriage valid (thinking about Mary and Joseph, and how they never had relations).
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I ask too, because my fiance and I will be practicing NFP when we’re married – and if we have to prolong our relations until my infertile time, we wonder if our marriage will not be valid until then.
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Father Vincent
The priest was incorrect. The marriage is valid with the statement of the vows at the altar. The marriage is completed with the consummation of those vows.
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MH84,

Sorry, my language was imprecise. I meant couples who are permanently infertile. If, as Noah proposes, fertility is necessary for the conjugal act it would seem to mean that a couple who knew they were permanently infertile would not have the ability to consummate their marriage.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
Basically, sex when conception is not likely or possible. I disagree with it intensly. I think that abstinance should be useed all the time. Save for the cause of procreation.
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So, in other words, you’re dissenting from the clear teaching of the popes you seek to canonize in your signature? Odd, that.

Jeremy
 
jemfinch said:
So, in other words, you’re dissenting from the clear teaching of the popes you seek to canonize in your signature? Odd, that.

Jeremy
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Just because they’re saints doesn’t mean they’re right.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
Basically, sex when conception is not likely or possible. I disagree with it intensly. I think that abstinance should be useed all the time. Save for the cause of procreation.
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Are you saying then that during infertile periods a couple must be abstinent and can only come together during fertile periods? Remember it was God who designed women with infertile periods.

Here’s an article that might help you:

Is NFP Heresy?
 
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