I can't obey

[Rau]

Imagine you are an American pilot. You were one of the pilots who dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Meaning, you intentionally struck a civilian target knowing full well you were killing massive amounts of innocent people. You did it to end the war and avert many many more casualties that would come from an outright invasion of Japan. You are convinced that it had to be done, yet you are greatly grieved at your actions, consider you intentionally destroyed innocent life. This would be contrition, no?

Is intentionally killing innocent people intrinsically evil? If it is, then this is a situation where one committed an intrinsically evil act to avert an even greater evil, yet nonetheless recognizing the intrinsic evil of his act he is contrite. You see the parallel?

It varies. At times we really are striving for holiness, at other times we give in and push that still small voice out and indulge ourselves. Its a bit of a back and forth. Sadly, whether striving for holiness or not, we always seem to give in and “do it”. I’m about ready to just get married and put the fornication behind us once and for all.

What if innocent lives being lost is actually intended, within the context of a just war and to avert greater evil? Was either the firebombing of Dresden or the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki an intrinsically evil act, done to avert a greater evil? Could one then be contrite for having committed an intrinsically evil act even though a greater evil was averted thereby? May one be contrite over the means employed, though not in regard to the greater evil having been averted?

You seem to wandering off topic to events not comparable. You know you do wrong, but freely choose that course and pre-plan a confession. That is not the pilot’s situation. He did not use the future potential for confession to give him an excuse to fly the plane. He did so trusting his superiors, or out of ignorance or misjudgment, or in the mistaken belief that the ends justify the means. Or perhaps he just wilted under the pressure of the situation. He later truly realized his error and his contrition is genuine and he would truly intend not to repeat his error. You cannot say that. In fact if your sterilization were incomplete for some reason, you would fully intend to repeat it. (Artificial scenario I know, but I think the point is clear.)

And further, it is not the case that intentional mass murder of innocents can be justified in war, regardless of how many other innocents such an action is expected to save. Such a “consequentialism” based ethical system is explicitly rejected by the Church. Intrinsic evils may not be committed regardless of beneficial consequences anticipated.

 

[petra22]

@ALoveDivine:

Frustration and doubts - reasonable doubts - are not obstacles to sainthood but can be, if we allow them to be, the exact tools that are used to catapult us to Heaven, and not just the Heaven beyond death, but to Heaven right now: living a holy life, in love, with a mind that is at peace. Those frustrations and questions refine us and sharpen us.

Contraception is among the hardest teachings to accept because so many modern people approach it from a loaded perspective. They review over and over in their mind all of the things that are “lost” in submitting to Church teaching, but presume that nothing is gained in following it, even if life demonstrates all to the contrary. Mainstream society accepts contraception, and yet sexual dissatisfaction is epidemic among them, along with broken marriages or separated / arguing spouses that rarely have sex. They think separating the unitive and procreative bond doesn’t affect their mind & heart in anyway, when it does. They just don’t know it because mainstream society doesn’t know any different. It would be like a medieval serf never questioning to himself about how life could be better if he had certain rights: he grew up in a society where his state of life is just accepted, and so he never asks those questions in the first place. Orthodox Catholic couples are vulnerable to each other, and that is something that is really quite incredible. It is a lost knowledge, only retained by a remnant.

“Why Humanae Vitae Was Right” is a collection of articles compiled Janet E. Smith. Reading alone isn’t going to convert you on this issue, but it’s a good start. It’s a very large book but I would recommend reading it just a little chunk at a time, and reflecting/praying over it.

It is possible to continue to receive communion in the Catholic Church even if you don’t understand a particular Church teaching; just as long as you live your life according to it.

Since both you and your fiance are at the moment cold to this particular teaching, it’s going to take a miracle to lunge you out of it (which isn’t so bad: God does it all the time). The two of you will reinforce each other as an intense form of peer pressure / persuasion. It’s part of the reason why this teaching intuitively feels so ‘impossible’ to you right now. You’re regularly having sex with her, which literally makes you chemically addicted to her, and her to you.

What you are saying is so contrary to popular belief…that younger folks think they just can’t bear relationships that have to consider a woman’s natural biology. Many think that chemically altered women (using contraceptives—) will allow them to be more IN CONTROL of the sexual situation… they really don’t understand what contraceptives are doing to the human body and the human relationships. And also if anyone is watching media… men AND women aren’t supposed to be satisfied with ONE partner since there are so many out there… Sorrowfully many young people are thinking they can’t do it the way God intended but know more than God now…

All I can say is what Jesus said from the cross, Father forgive them, for they know not what they do. I was in the same situation until understanding settled on me… now I can only try to explain to others what little I know…

 

[MarkInOregon]

On that point, I also can’t for the life of me figure out why the Church considers NFP morally different than barrier methods. NFP is a practice of engaging in sex with the intent of preventing the conception of a child. It is self-evidently a form of contraception. How this differs morally from withdrawl or barrier methods is elusive to me.

I think you are mistaken–NFP is **not ** “a practice of engaging in sex with the intent of preventing the conception of a child”. NFP is the practice of not engaging in sexual intercourse during the fertile time. This is fundamentally different from using contraception. With contraception you are engaging in sexual intercourse and frustrating the potential natural outcome of sexual intercourse. No such frustration occurs with NFP.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[ALoveDivine]

I have good news for you all. By the grace of God me and my girlfriend have decided to try to abstain from now until marriage. We’ve decided to use this time of temporary abstinence to grow in faith together and discern marriage.

Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement, God has been good to me these past few days and is at work in my heart. If anything I’ve learned that my own inability is only the precursor to the filial and child-like dependence of faith through which grace comes to revive the soul.

 

[Evania]

Good for you! I was praying for you both, and you can be assured of my prayers in the future. May God bless you and your girlfriend with a long and happy life together!

 

[NovusFidem]

It varies. At times we really are striving for holiness, at other times we give in and push that still small voice out and indulge ourselves. Its a bit of a back and forth. Sadly, whether striving for holiness or not, we always seem to give in and “do it”. I’m about ready to just get married and put the fornication behind us once and for all.

A whole lot of good it’s going to do to you both. You are not going to get more virtuous just because you changed the situation of your sin (which stays the same, I’d assume, as contraception may place your future marital relations as fornication).

I heard once that “a Saint is a sinner who kept on trying”. We sin, we regret our sin, we repent our sin, we are cleansed of our sin. Then we sin again, we regret it, we repent it, we are clean.

Then we sin again, and we have the option of repeating the process, over and over and over… OR giving up.

You, my friend? You gave up. You say you understand intellectually the teaching, but I don’t think you do, or else you’d be pleading for help into how to stop doing it.

Just to draw a parallel: my current go-to mortal sin is Sloth. I have a crippling case of laziness, which keeps me in bed for most of my -]day/-] -]week/-] month. I miss Sunday Mass all the time, I neglect prayer, I deny my family my company. I do nothing all day long. I just confessed last Thursday, and am already struggling with my anxiety, fighting over control of myself into going to Mass this Sunday.

Your sin and mine are the same: crippling, strong, overpowering. We can’t see the end of the darkness from where we stand. I know what you are going through, as I fought off masturbation last January; and Sloth is proving much harder to fight than Lust was

You and I both are on the same situation. But we are very different.

I repented. I regret and repent my idleness all the time, and am working to change it. I am fighting an inside battle right now, trying to convince myself not to sin Sunday AGAIN. I am uncomfortable with something that won’t even happen for a couple of days. But I fight. Despite my anxiety, my fears of leaving my house, my desire to rest and laze around all day on Sunday - I fight.

You? You gave up. You say you can’t, when in fact you won’t. You place the blame on your body, on your weakness, when the only person to blame is you, who don’t really want to change.

You say you are weak. Yes, we both are. But I find my strength in He who gives me strength. I may not be able to fight off this sinful inclination by myself, but I KNOW He is there to help me. He already did help me fight off my porn and masturbation vices. I know He will empower me on this fight as well. And so, I ask for His help, because I want to change. I don’t want to merely not-sin: I want to be virtuous, to be made pleasant in His eyes.

Don’t you want the same?

Forget this idea of marrying for the sake of “lessening the sin”. Your sin will be the same, if not worse, as not only you will be dragging someone else into it, but this someone will be the ONE person whose sanctification and spiritual growth depends on you: your wife.

 

[NovusFidem]

I have good news for you all. By the grace of God me and my girlfriend have decided to try to abstain from now until marriage. We’ve decided to use this time of temporary abstinence to grow in faith together and discern marriage.

Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement, God has been good to me these past few days and is at work in my heart. If anything I’ve learned that my own inability is only the precursor to the filial and child-like dependence of faith through which grace comes to revive the soul.

And I was just about to slap some sense into you, tsk.

I’m really happy for you both. I can guarantee, as someone who just recently gave up porn and masturbation, that there is nothing that compares to being chaste. There is some sort of pureness that comes with it that makes us become light as feathers, both physically and spiritually.

Just a tip: get a Rosary. Next time temptation comes (it will be very difficult on the first month, trust me on this), just get your Rosary out and -]ask for help/-] meditate on the Mysteries. I recommend the Sorrowful Mysteries - nothing like remembering what Jesus went through to stay our hands from sinning

 

[Rynard]

You think that God has been good to you. No, you have not been good to God. The only reason why you have salve is because Christ dies on the cross every day in agony for your actions.

I’m going to PM you.