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Skye_Ariel
Guest
Yes, I think all of your questions will be answered in the RCIA meetings and along the way God will assist you with your understanding and you will come to accept them.
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
So…look up the trinity in the Bible…
Wait…it’s not there! So how does that come about? How do Protestants have any concept of the trinity? Personal interpretation? But what if mine conflicts with yours? Who is right?
That’s why Jesus left His Church to work it out.
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khuldar
Guest
That’s how it got explained to me and I joined earlier this year
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khuldar
Guest
Speaking from recent experience, being an Anglican before joining the RCC recently is to do your own research using the forums, the Internet etc & then open yourself to the holy spirit and let God guide you.
If I had to recommend a book to read (that helped me) it would be Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn. What he wrote made a lot of sense to me.:clapping:
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Cryptic1
Guest
You’ve touched upon four issues which are particular to the Catholic church, but not all the issues hold the same weight. Veneration of relics or giving credence to mystics are not required in order to become catholic. However, allegiance to the pope and acceptance of the church’s traditions are part of the church’s fundamental beliefs and your inability to fully embrace these teachings may stand in the way of your becoming catholic.
Your statement, “the bible is the WORD OF GOD” points to a distinctly strong, protestant influence and background. I don’t know what draws you to the catholic faith, but you need to reconcile your protestant beliefs with what the catholic churches teaches if you want to become a catholic. I am not encouraging nor discouraging you on your journey, I am merely pointing out some of the marked differences between protestantism and catholicism.
In the end, when we stand before God, I believe we will all be judged according to “the way we loved others” as Jesus commanded, not on our choice of religious affiliation. God has put within the heart of each person a desire to know Him. That desire usually leads the individual to choose a religion, but it is ultimately the relationship or walk with God that determines our eternal destiny.
Your statement, “the bible is the WORD OF GOD” points to a distinctly strong, protestant influence and background. I don’t know what draws you to the catholic faith, but you need to reconcile your protestant beliefs with what the catholic churches teaches if you want to become a catholic. I am not encouraging nor discouraging you on your journey, I am merely pointing out some of the marked differences between protestantism and catholicism.
In the end, when we stand before God, I believe we will all be judged according to “the way we loved others” as Jesus commanded, not on our choice of religious affiliation. God has put within the heart of each person a desire to know Him. That desire usually leads the individual to choose a religion, but it is ultimately the relationship or walk with God that determines our eternal destiny.
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Jimmygill88
Guest
Relics and Mystics are a side issue and unimportant compared to doctrine. It is not required that you believe any Mystic’s utterances. Likewise with relics. You may choose to never be invoked in anything concerning them. Concentrate on your issues the the authority of the Pope
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prodigalson2011
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Not even more likely, it definitely applies only to the book of Revelation. How can we know that for sure? Because when John was writing Revelation, there was no Bible. It was a stand-alone text. It didn’t become part of the Bible 'til several hundred years later.
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504Katrin
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Nabooru, these are a lot of questions you got into, and real good questions
I’ve got one counter question for you though first of all. What makes you say that you want to be a member of the RCC?
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Nabooru
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I come from a city with a strong Catholic heritage. (If you ask me, St. Louis’s cathedral is the most beautiful in the world, but I understand some people can’t deal with that and will deny it.Nabooru, these are a lot of questions you got into, and real good questions
I’ve got one counter question for you though first of all. What makes you say that you want to be a member of the RCC?
) Catholics always seemed to have, I don’t know, a happier religion than the strict Lutheranism I was brought up with. You think Catholig school is tough? Try Lutheran school! Everything was fundamentalist and exclusive, and as a child I felt I must be a very bad person because my faith wasn’t always 100% perfect and my teachers were constantly punishing me for having learning disorders. Also I felt kind of jealous of Catholics because at least women had some role in the church. At the churches I grew up in, girls weren’t even allowed to carry the cross in processions. Mary was just another woman. Women couldn’t be specifically called saints. We had no female writers who did anything besides exhort other believing women into being wives and mothers and submissive and obedient. I never wanted to marry or have children but I thought I had to because I didn’t have a choice.Not that I feel that Catholicism is much different on women anymore, but at least a woman can be taken seriously. I remember reading a statement of Martin Luther who said that it was good for a woman to die in childbirth, since she was fufilling the only purpose she was made for.
Also there wasn’t much room for devotion. I admired how Catholics could enter a church at any time to engage in meditation, prayer and adoration. In my Lutheran church you went to services on Sunday; if you needed God outside of that time you were on your own. There were no special prayers or devotions since they smacked of Catholicism, no rosaries, no confession or side chapels you could quietly pray in. If you were feeling really spiritually uneasy and called your pastor, he’d gruffly tell you to pray with barely-concealed irritation for bothering him.
So there are a variety of reasons, also including that the more I learned of Luther the less I liked him, but mainly I always felt a pull towards the church. I don’t know why. That’s not to say I’ve always admired everything about it, but one thing I’ve learned is that many reformers stayed within the church, rather than starting new ones.
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504Katrin
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Yes, St.Louis Cathedral is very beautiful. Haven’t been there but saw pictures of it. In reality it must look even more beautifulI come from a city with a strong Catholic heritage. (If you ask me, St. Louis’s cathedral is the most beautiful in the world, but I understand some people can’t deal with that and will deny it.
Not that I feel that Catholicism is much different on women anymore, but at least a woman can be taken seriously. I remember reading a statement of Martin Luther who said that it was good for a woman to die in childbirth, since she was fufilling the only purpose she was made for.
Also there wasn’t much room for devotion. I admired how Catholics could enter a church at any time to engage in meditation, prayer and adoration. In my Lutheran church you went to services on Sunday; if you needed God outside of that time you were on your own. There were no special prayers or devotions since they smacked of Catholicism, no rosaries, no confession or side chapels you could quietly pray in. If you were feeling really spiritually uneasy and called your pastor, he’d gruffly tell you to pray with barely-concealed irritation for bothering him.
So there are a variety of reasons, also including that the more I learned of Luther the less I liked him, but mainly I always felt a pull towards the church. I don’t know why. That’s not to say I’ve always admired everything about it, but one thing I’ve learned is that many reformers stayed within the church, rather than starting new ones.
Let me tell you what I learned from the Priest in confession last week…
I confessed to the Priest that I felt so ashemed for not having studied the Bible enough recently - and that even though I hadn’t even read of all of the Bible yet, especially the Jewish scripures - and that I felt that I was such a bad believer because of it. He asked me if I knew a Psalm that I prayed. I told him that I loved Psalm 63. He cited the beginning of “my” Psalm, and immediately I felt as if he knew all of them by heart…that I could have probably asked him “What’s Psalm 53?” and he would have told me…and I felt even worse and even smaller than I had already felt when I entered the confessional. However, he then continued to tell me the following…(paraphrasing):
“And if this is the one and only Psalm that you know… and you know no other Psalm than this Psalm, and if praying this very Psalm over and over again brings you closer to God… then there’s no need for you to rush and learn all the others…”
In essence… what really counts is our relationship with God. If you feel closer to God in that Cathedral… go and spend time there in prayer. Listen to what God wants to tell you. Grow closer to God and deepen your relationship with him. Let all other things and questions be for a while. Spend time in front of the tabernacle in prayer and enjoy this time with Him. In prayer you’ll certianly start to find some answers, and then go from there. We all have different priorities. Some say the rosary every day, some people more than once a day. I used to feel so bad for not praying it, until I understood that I simply preferred to pray my own prayers, and that is was o.k. Then there’s a woman that is very, very pious, but hardly ever goes to church to receive the sacraments. On the contrary, I go to church often and enjoy the holy mass, but am I as close to God as she is? Mmmhhhh. Then there’re people that seem to know a lot of Saints, including their life history. A while ago I told my bible group and the Priest … “You know, all those Saints…that just doesn’t seem to be my thingy…” thing is though…it doesn’t have to. Everyone has their priorities, not all of us give all dogmas, rules, teachings, prayers, all of them the highest importance and at the same time in our life. Maybe in a couple of years from now, I will be the expert in regards to Saints… who knows…And maybe some of your questions will be replaced by others soon…
You find your own priorities. There’s no such “perfect believer” or “perfect catholic” that I knew of… Go, and find your way, that brings you closer to God.
God bless!
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Nabooru
Guest
I would also like to mention that, as some of you may have noticed, I can’t really get myself to believe that unbelievers can be saved. It’s not that I want non-Christians to go to Hell - not at all! That’s why evangelization is so, so important to me. To me, to say that non-Christian can not believe and still go to heaven is the same as saying that a person who stops making car payments will not have their car repossessed. The only way I could see that happening is if a person lives an exactly sinless life and thus does not need saving, which is impossible. I don’t speculate on the fate of unbelievers. All I know is what God has told us: no one gets to the Father but through Christ, and no one can claim ignorance as an excuse.
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Edward_H
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Well it’s clear you’re thinking hard about this.
My thinking is “it’s God’s business…if he can save my wretched self…he can do anything”
But you’re also right to focus on evangelizing…the soul is worth too much; we risk a growing ‘indifference’ about them were we to simply shrug our shoulders.
So…maybe realizing the value of having these people right with God IN THIS LIFE can help us help them. God needs us to help them, because they are going to be around many people in their long lives…many opportunities to love, to give, to ponder love…and eventually to ponder and consider God substantially.
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Skye_Ariel
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poptown
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It’s not hard to understand actually. Basically, Christ dies for sins of the whole world. So if one person actually fulfills Christ’s Commandments, he will abide in Christ’s love, just as Christ having kept Father’s commandments and abide in His love (Jn 15:10). Such person cannot be easily defined as unfaithful considering that he somehow obeys Christ’s commandments (for example, through his own religion with invincible ignorance), even if he doesn’t know Christ or speak out Christ’s name. The only problem may be baptism … but other than that I think salvation for so-called “non-believers” is not that impossible.
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jay338wsfd
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Yes that helps alot. Thank you for your reponse. I am new to forums so i am still learning how to use them.
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jay338wsfd
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Thank you i will look for the book you mentioned. I will continue my online forum searching and reading. Thanks for all the help.
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Nabooru
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Don’t people commit mortal sins, though? And they do not atone for them?
When I was going through my Hindu phase, if I sinned, I would feel a little bad, but then remind myself that on the one hand, I hadn’t directly offended God (like desecrating a temple or something), and on the other, I’d have plenty of lifetimes to make up for it. The most I’d do is make an offering to a god and consider it done and over with, at least for now. I didn’t have to apologize or feel sorry. Enlightenment could come later.
Christianity is not just about doing good things. It’s about forgiveness of sins. And a person may feel that their sins cannot be forgiven through Christ, or that they don’t need forgiveness. I can imagine if someone saw themselves as a sinner, and knew they could never atone them on their own, and at the same time seeks to please a God that they can’t find in their surrounding culture yet know He is still there, that person could be saved, since they believe in Christ, they just don’t know His name. Notice I say “could”. Not will.
I know the idea is that a person could be saved if they knew baptism was necessary and would thus desire it. But what if they don’t care, or don’t consider the concept at all, dismissing it out of hand? Are these not those whose hearts are of stone, as Jesus mentioned?
If, say, a Muslim in Iran pays the zakat - knowing, of course, that such acts of compassion are directed only toward other Muslims - and gives more on top of that, while at the same time completely holding true that any Muslim who leaves the faith must be put to death - if that Muslim is rallying around the stoning or beheading of a Muslim-turned-Christian, does that mean they are saved because they believe they are doing the will of God?
Again, I can see that salvation - however unguaranteed - of a person who desperately wants to know who Christ is and how to be saved, but not that person who is aware of Christianity and ignores it. If they truly had the will and law of God stamped on their hearts, they would have been Christian. They would have taken that opportunity to become a follower of Christ. If a person ignores the call of Jesus due to peer pressure, hubris in their own faith, carelessness, hatred, or lethargy, they cannot be saved.
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poptown
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CCC 1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
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Nabooru
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What is “his understanding of it”? If I feel that God calls me to cleanse ethnic minorities from my tribe’s territory, am I saved?CCC 1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
Again, if a person believes in and desires Christ without knowing His name, I can understand their salvation, if not guarantee it. But if a person does not know of Christ, nor lives a Christian life, then the Spirit of God is not in them.
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poptown
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I think “his understanding of it” means his understanding of Christ’s commandments without the Christian context. For example, Christians need to be selfless, but not all selfless people are Christians. They have their understanding of selflessness. Of course Catholicism holds the fullness of truth, but those people who do not know Catholicism or even the Gospel while living a selfless life, based on their limited knowledge and belief, have no problem being in communion with Catholic Church and the body of Christ. God’s saving grace simply opens to all people. Whoever accepts it, even just partially, and makes use of it will have a chance to be saved.
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