I can't stop comparing my Catholic friends to my LDS frinds

[ConfusedOne]

Hi Virgo!
I understand how you feel and I had a similar experience with a jw friend. In that case though my 'friend ’ was love bombing me. She really made me question my lack of support as a Catholic. I went through a similar time of reflection as you are. They go above and beyond to make you feel welcome and loved to covert you. They are taught to set an example for this very reason. I don’t think Mormons are as cultish as Jw’s but I would be cautious of conversion tactics.

 

[virgo]

You’re right, RebeccaJ, I did come off as defensive. I guess I’m writing here at a point of frustration, really. And I’m not put off by older people, in fact the large group of Vincentians that I tried to join were all over 60. I’m just looking for somewhere that I feel relevant and helpful. Finding fellowship in my age group also wouldn’t be a bad deal.
And as far as my “looking for young people with a religious bend to hang out with,” is that such a terrible thing to ask of a parish?
(Point taken regarding my snarky “strike 2” comment–but can ya blame me? Yankeesouth was being a total jerk.)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I realize not everyone is going to agree with me on this, but I personally look to my religious faith for just that, religious faith and belief. I do not rely on a church, mine or anyone else’s, for social support of any kind. I have a couple of good, supportive friends who are good Catholics and a number of others who are everything from weak or fallen-away Catholics, to Protestants, to agnostics, to Jewish people.

They are all my friends first, and whatever religion they are (or aren’t) second. And same for myself being friends with them.

The older gentleman who backed off and left you be probably thought he was doing the tactful thing as you had a crisis to deal with. Also, his mind may well have been on the poor person he was on his way to go help. I know a few Vincentians and most off the people they are helping are in some pretty severe crises themselves. Not to minimize yours, but a mom having a child get sick at school is something that in most cases is more easily resolvable than someone who is broke, homeless, on the verge of being evicted or having all their utilities shut off, etc.

If you’re going to pick a church based on whether you can find other moms your age to be your best friends, then just be honest and own up to the fact that you’re picking the church based on that, not on whether you actually believe whatever faith is being set forth.

 

[misstherese]

A lot of Catholics don’t really take the faith as seriously these days. However, if you start attending the Latin mass, you’ll notice a lot of devout Catholics who live their faith well. Maybe you could try going to one?

Fellowship is a big part of being a Mormon; that’s most likely why it’s more evident in your LDS friends. Catholics do tend to be more private and that’s okay, too. I’m known for being really quiet and shy and sometimes don’t know how to comfort someone. Remember that to find God, we only need ourselves. Cloistered religious often aren’t allowed to speak except for one hour during a whole day. They chant together, they work together, but they aren’t allowed to speak other than that. Why do they do that? To better be able to hear God and mold a relationship with Him. There’s even an order of religious who aren’t allowed to speak for two whole weeks. Why do they do it? To hear God. Oftentimes when I can’t find anyone who’ll listen to me or I feel alone, that’s the time I depend most on God. I’ll talk to God; I’ll pray more. I think God does this for a reason.

Maybe you should find a spiritual director. A spiritual director helps you in your spiritual life and can offer you guidance and support.

 

[AlNg]

If you’re going to pick a church based on whether you can find other moms your age to be your best friends, then just be honest and own up to the fact that you’re picking the church based on that, not on whether you actually believe whatever faith is being set forth.

You make the point about choosing your faith on the basis of what the church (or ecclesial community) teaches or whether you actually believe what is being set forth. But I have read that Catholics by and large do not believe everything that the Catholic Church teaches. For example, don’t many studies show that the percentage of Catholics who practice artificial birth control, have premarital sex, or who abort is roughly comparable to what is found for the population at large? The percentage of Catholics who believe what is set forth about the sin of contraception - and its use by married couples who are struggling to make ends meet - appears to be somewhat low at least according to the various studies that I have seen?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

You make the point about choosing your faith on the basis of what the church (or ecclesial community) teaches or whether you actually believe what is being set forth. But I have read that Catholics by and large do not believe everything that the Catholic Church teaches. For example, don’t many studies show that the percentage of Catholics who practice artificial birth control, have premarital sex, or who abort is roughly comparable to what is found for the population

Yes there are non practising Catholics or Luke warm Catholics. However, this does not discredit the Catholic Church n any way.

What’s your point?

 

[BenedicamDominum]

The fact that there are tares that live amongst the wheat is in no way a sufficient means through which to analyze the claims of Mormonism. I think that, on an intellectual level, so much is evident. But when there’s an emotional pull in a certain direction, it can at times be difficult to resist.

But resist we must. I think it’s important to learn to not be lead by our emotions in the spiritual life, because they can drag us all over the map.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But I have read that Catholics by and large do not believe everything that the Catholic Church teaches. For example, don’t many studies show that the percentage of Catholics who practice artificial birth control, have premarital sex, or who abort is roughly comparable to what is found for the population at large? The percentage of Catholics who believe what is set forth about the sin of contraception - and its use by married couples who are struggling to make ends meet - appears to be somewhat low at least according to the various studies that I have seen?

The Church does teach that contraception is a sin. There are Catholics who choose to practice it anyway and live with the guilt, there are Catholics who are firmly convinced it is not a sin, and there are Catholics who choose not to practice it. The sex lives of other Catholics is not my business. I did what I did in my life and I dealt with it between me and God (and my husband if necessary) and that included when I committed sins, I went and confessed them. Although this is a big deal in terms of me saving my own soul or not, I consider it pretty small potatoes compared to the main reason I am a Catholic, which is, first, foremost, and without anything else be it contraception or gays or women priests or whatever other hot button issue you want to throw in there,

THE PRESENCE OF THE REAL JESUS CHRIST IN THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS

followed closely by my love for our dear Mother Mary.

I don’t sit down and make a laundry list of human doodlypoo like contraception and divorce and blah blah blah after that. It’s just way off in the distance over the hill somewhere. It barely matters to me. (I left out abortion because I do firmly believe that is killing and as a Christian I oppose unnecessary murder of innocent babies, just like I oppose euthanasia and the death penalty…unnecessary killing is unnecessary killing, and killing is a big deal to me.)

When somebody is picking a faith for any reason than the two things I listed above, they kinda lost me somewhere. If they explain it was their mom’s and dad’s church and they grew up in it and it’s their heritage and they have happy memories of it and they feel close to Jesus in it, then I kind of get it. If they explain that they picked some other church because they had other moms there to pal around with, I’m kinda like, yeah, okay, whatever.

YMMV

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hello virgo,

I’m also a,Virgo

There isn’t anything wrong with seeking fellowship with people of your own age and circumstance, The thing is, if you aren’t finding it among Catholics then deciding what to do about it. The thing with Mormons, is that each member has an assignment in their social structure, within a ward and they take roll. If you don’t show up then someone is calling to ask why.

This exists only within a ward boundary. When someone moves, the fellowships and friendships that were in one ward, are broken, and new instant ones are formed in a new ward. For the most part it functions this way, with exceptions of course.

I take it your Mormon friends live nearby, in what would be your ward if you were Mormon. Many a non-Mormon has been bewildered when their Mormon fri nds move away, never to be heard from again. It’s a cultural thing.

A Mormon Bishop serves for 5 years. A ward will typically be around 300 people, counting men, women and children. Some wards are larger and some are smaller. My point being, there are Catholic priests whose parish is 2000 families or more. A Mormon Bishop serves for five years and is then released and a new man becomes Bishop for the next five years.

A Catholic parish priest has much, much more responsibility than a Mormon Bishop. He does minister to the sick but he has no way of knowing unless someone tells him. Which you didn’t do, so you can’t lay blame on someone for something they don’t know. Also, hospitals are setup, so all you have to do is say I’m Catholic and would you get a priest, and they will call the priest or deacon that is in the ministry for that hospital. Even here in Utah, where there are few priest and deacons, there is always one available for hospital ministry.

My first reaction to you accepting the rites of another Church being done to your son is a shock. Why would you do that? A Catholic priest or deacon is easily available at a hospital. All you have to do is ask. I surmise from your posts that you want to fit in with the Mormons. You should realize that you indeed are a project, maybe 100%, maybe 50-50. Hard to know. But Marie is right in calling out vulnerability. Mormonism recognize it and see it as an in to your conversion.

Catholics, go to whatever parish, and whatever times. I’ve been going to the same parish for ten years and I know very few people, because our parish has a lot of transient comers and goers. It’s the old folks who have been participating in the parish for 20, 25, 30 years. Adults young enough to have children at home, bring their kids to CCD and never participate in ministries (for the most part). They’re too busy driving kids around.

The Catholic answer to your dilemma is to do something about it. Talk to your Priest, explain what’s going on like you did with your OP. Take time to,pray and discern where God is calling you. Should you start a ministry for women your age? A Bible study. A Rosary group? God is giving you an opportunity.

 

[Jerusha]

I am older than you, Rebecca!

Stay-at-home Moms need to get out and help the community. Don’t write off associating with older folk and getting to know them. We are not curmudgeons (generally). You can even tag one as an emergency pickup person for your kids at school. The older guy with the Vincentians had no idea that your son was that sick, and neither did you at that point. Only the later events colored your memory of the event. You can get back with them, and prove yourself. They are a great resource of wisdom, and many are quite able to be spiritual directors.

I have a friend who was a stay-at home mom, and as an empty-nester she continues to work without pay. She is a very busy woman, much like another woman of about my age who is in generally good health.

Once your Mormon friends find out that you have no interest in converting, they will generally disappear. And, perhaps, they will gossip and magnify any perceived imperfection about you.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Yes Jerusha you’re an old lady!

One other thing Virgo… the dropping everything a running to the hospital was a show for you. I grew up Mormon, all of my large family are Mormon. My dad and brothers have never dropped everything to run to the hospital because a kid got sick at school. The normal thing is to finish work, which gives time for things to work themselves out. When they got home from work, if the kid were still in the hospital, then the would go and possibly give them a blessing.

In your case they were rushing to get it done. I wonder if they were concerned your husband would not allow them to proceed?

 

[vsedriver]

Maybe you are in the wrong Catholic group. I suggest you see if there is a Cursillo group in your area. They are very supportive and were my gateway to a personal relationship to Jesus.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I just want to say something here. I’ve done visits with the Legion of Mary to nursing homes and hospitals, and if you ask the Legion, they will make sure you have a priest available if you need one.

 

[mackbrislawn]

It’s called, love bombing. JW’s and other cults do it too. Love bombing does generate new converts.

And there are “jack Mormons,” those who are Mormon but don’t go to church much, and maybe drink beer and coffee. Or Coke.

 

[Thom18]

I know the argument from Catholics would be that we are ‘better’ because our church is the true church, with the Eucharist, keys of St Peter, etc–but at the end of the day, doctrine doesn’t so much matter to me as much as human connection, empathy, prayer life (especially that of young fathers, which I rarely see in the Catholic community the way I do in the LDS), and just basic human kindness.

I understand how upsetting experiences like this can be- when your church isn’t there for you- but we shouldn’t try and convince ourselves that doctrine should take a back seat to a sense of community and belonging. Certainly both are important, even necessary, but we can’t let human failures drag us away from what we believe is true. We’re Catholic for a reason, and that reason isn’t because we believe someone else is right.

If your church isn’t there for you, consider this: are the parishioners there for the church? If they’re not, there’s a few things you could do. You could search for another parish. You could try and encourage more participation among the laity. If there’s a problem with the leadership, you could get in touch with the bishop. Whatever you do, don’t let human failures drag you from the Church.

 

[randomuser888]

Mormons also do a much better job reaching out to singles - there are singles wards but singles are treated like second-class citizens in Catholic parishes.

No strike here. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[randomuser888]

Not really. Calling it “love bombing” (pejorative term) is insulting to Mormons.

 

[whalljim1]

Not a former Mormon, but I can’t agree more. The thing of the Catholic Church is that it has the truth. It has the historical continuity to Christ. One thing it sometimes doesn’t do as well as other faith communities is the entire fellowship thing.

I didn’t have it until I got involved in CRHP. (That was a great experience for me. Not so much for others. As always YMMV). Now I have a group of men with whom I can share my experiences and be fed. We pray for one another. It’s great. But prior to that we all were in our own little bubble.

I think there are many reasons for this; but its just my own little supposition. The Church drifted for awhile after Vatican II. I’m not blaming the council, but I think the way it was interpreted tended to eliminate some of the more rigid, but involving, customs. I also think that the Church is fundamentally different from any other religion in its focus.

In a protestant church the church is them. Its a collection of like minded believers. Christ is present in the scriptures, but their focus tends to bend in on the community itself. If you’re looking for that community its great. And I’m not knocking it; many protestant churches do wonderful things.

But for us, Christ is imminently present in the Eucharist. You could have a full 100% efficacious meeting with GOD HIMSELF if you were the only one other than the priest at mass. In my opinion it tends to bend the focus away from each other and towards the altar. That’s fine too.

But sometimes we do a bad job at reaching out to others in our community. There are enough people who are cultural catholics or who aren’t really involved in the community of the parish that we don’t have that vibrant parish life.

I think that’s changing. But it will take time.

In the meantime, I’d look at something like CRHP with joining a team; or Cursillo, or Mothers in Christ. Some sort of group that will give you that sense of fellowship that you need.

Catholics can do it, and do it well. I grew up in a family with a whole group of people who were (and are) ready to storm the gates of heaven in prayer for someone. Sometimes you just have to find the right niche in a 2000 year old institution.

 

[Inbetweener]

With Catholics it’s all about the mass, other churches don’t have this so will have to make up with coffee, good music, YouTube videos , friendly preaching etc. Maybe you could join a Charismatic Catholic prayer group or go to a renewal conference and you see the love.

 

[MissBorgia]

I took him home, and 30 minutes later there was a knock on my door. My friend had sent over her husband (an LDS bishop, and another bishop from an LDS ‘ward’ (parish) closer to my home). They both prayed over my son, anointed him with holy oil, and prayed with me. It was the most incredible spiritual experience I’ve ever had, and my son was fully well by that evening.

Be very very careful with this my dear. Not saying they are horrible folks, but when you are having a “bishop” of a sect that doesn’t respect or believe the authority of our Lord … it is a very gray area spiritually and what you are allowing in your home. I am VERY glad your son is better. this is my 002.