I come not to abolish the law

[Joero]

How come Jesus says he does not come to abolish the old law but then he does change a lot of things, like no stoning, changes the eye for an eye principle in the old testament, and no need for circumsision, etc?

Thanks in advance,

Peace and God Bless

In Matt. 5: 17 - Jesus stated here that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill them. We know then that Jesus had to fulfill what were written about Him (written in the law and by the prophets and the Psalms) according to Luke 24: 44.
The laws (ceremonial laws) were abolished but the moral laws like for example the ten commandments were not abolished.

 

[Yerusalyim]

The laws (ceremonial laws) were abolished but the moral laws like for example the ten commandments were not abolished.

I have to completely disagree with you here on several counts. The Mosaic Law was NOT abolished, God still has a covenant with the Jews and that covenant is marked, on their part, by keeping the 613 Commandments. Now, for us Gentiles, we can fulfill the requirements of the law through faith in Christ and acting in that faith by Loving God and Loving Neighbor. Remember, Paul remained a faithful Jew his whole life.

 

[Zahava]

And I think we should also keep in mind that Jesus was speaking to Jews: They had special laws and customs that they regard as binindg for members of Israel ONLY and never thought of imposing them on the whole world (only on proselytes, of course).

Correct, these special laws and customs are binding only on Jews and proselytes.

Jesus didn’t come to change these things for Jews, they still observe them, and I think, the so-called messianic Jews do so, too, but I might be mistaken here. Therefore, he didn’t abolish anything: The law is still binding for those whom it concerns - but I am not of the tribe of Israel, those laws specially directed to the old convenat are not binding for me.

Most messianics are nonJews…those that are born Jews observe Shabbat commands as they deem it should be observed. So they are not considered Torah Observant.

There are other laws in the Old testament that must be observed by Jews and Christians alike (There is no other God etc.), but circumcision and other things do definitely not belong to it. .

You are correct. Jews are to keep the 613 and nonJews are to keep the 7 Noahide laws given to all mankind. Those 7 are included in the 613 for Jews.

Regarding stoning: The Old Testament is also a book of laws for the tribe of Israel in a specific time. We do not live in that time (wwe have no binding rule on headdresses for that reason, too - other culture, other time), and we are not subject to Israel, either - so no stoning You can see this also in the New Testament: The Jews appeal to Pilate in order to have Jesus crucified - they are simply not allowed by the current (Roman) laws to do it themselves. And Paul leaves no doubt, I think, about the fact that Christians should also follow the laws that are binding in their state and culture.

Deut 18:20. But the prophet who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

RASHI explains

which I did not command him to speak But which I commanded his fellow prophet [to speak].
or who speaks in the name of other gods Even though his words coincide with the halachah [Jewish law], forbidding what is forbidden or permitting what is permissible. — [San. 89a]
[That prophet] shall die By strangulation. Three [sinful prophets] are executed by man *: One who prophesies what he has not heard, one who prophesies what was not told to him but was told to his fellow [prophet], and one who prophesies in the name of a pagan deity. However, one who suppresses his prophecy *, or one who transgresses the words of a prophet, or a prophet who transgresses his own words [of prophecy]-their death is by the hands of Heaven, for it is said (verse 19), “ I shall exact [it] from him.” - [San. 89a]

chabad.org/library/article.htm/aid/9982/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-18.html*

In Torah, G-d explains what is the death penalty for those that sin. Either against Him or another man. Stoning, strangulation…and in some situations the body (after being stoned or strangled) was hung from a rope until right before sunset. But never do you read of crucifixon.*

 

[Cran]

Of course you’re right about the fact that crucificion is no Jewish punishment. Sorry if I was (again) not clear in what I wrote. Of course it is a ROMAN punishment that was used because the Romans were “in charge” at the time in question and therefore used their own kin dof death penalty instead of the “options” that the Torah has.

 

[Joero]

I have to completely disagree with you here on several counts. The Mosaic Law was NOT abolished, God still has a covenant with the Jews and that covenant is marked, on their part, by keeping the 613 Commandments.

What you were saying contradicts to the prophesy of Jeremiah (Jer. 31: 31-32) - which says “The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, declares the Lord.”
It is also attested to by St. Paul in (Heb. 7: 18-19) which says “The old rule, then, is set aside, because it was weak and useless. For the law of Moses could not make anything perfect. And now a better hope has been provided through which we come near to God.” and in (Heb.10:1) says “The Jewish Law is not a full and faithful model of the real things; it is only a faint outline of the good things to come…” and in (Heb.8: 13) says “By speaking of the new covenant, God has made the first one old; and anything that becomes old and worn out will soon disappear.”

Now, for us Gentiles, we can fulfill the requirements of the law through faith in Christ and acting in that faith by Loving God and Loving Neighbor.

I have not seen a single verse of the bible saying like that, can you give me one?

Remember, Paul remained a faithful Jew his whole life.

If you mean that being a Jew, St. Paul still followed the law of the old covenant; well, here is his statement in (Philippians 3: 8-9) “What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ – the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.”

 

[Yerusalyim]

Joero,

First, there is absolutley ZERO evidence that Paul wrote Hebrews.

What you were saying contradicts to the prophesy of Jeremiah (Jer. 31: 31-32) - which says

No, it contradicts YOUR understanding of Jeremiah. Now, you’ve thrown together a group of bible verses that have no contextual connection to one another…you’re not Catholic, are you? Let’s look at just one of those verses,

(Heb.10:1) says “The Jewish Law is not a full and faithful model of the real things; it is only a faint outline of the good things to come…”

This is correct, it’s a faint outline of the good things to COME…future tense…This, like the prophecy of Jeremiah, will not come to complete fruition until Christ returns.

In Romans 3:29-31 Paul tells us:

29 Does God belong to Jews alone? Does he not belong to Gentiles, too? Yes, also to Gentiles, 30 for God is one and will justify the circumcised on the basis of faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Are we then annulling the law by this faith? Of course not! On the contrary, we are supporting the law

Remember, God’s gifts and call the the Jewish people is IRREVOCABLE.

have not seen a single verse of the bible saying like that, can you give me one?

OK, here’s a single verse, though there are others…this is from Romans 13:8-10

Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this saying, (namely) “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no evil to the neighbor; hence, love is the fulfillment of the law.

The statement shown in Phillipians that you cite in NO WAY address Paul keeping the Law…it addresses teh great sacrafices he’s made in preaching the gospel. As to Paul keeping the Law, read Acts 21:24:This is James speaking to Paul

Take these men and purify yourself with them, and pay their expenses that they may have their heads shaved. In this way everyone will know that there is nothing to the reports they have been given about you but that you yourself live in observance of the law.

Paul’s point all along was that the Mosaic Law did not apply to the Gentiles…and that it was Christ, not the Law, that saves the Jews…he NEVER said the Jews were not to remain faithful to the covenant…otherwise, why, toward the end of his ministry, was it still said that he observed the Mosaic law himself, as did his Jewish followers.

 

[Joero]

First, there is absolutley ZERO evidence that Paul wrote Hebrews

I presumed you have not studied further. So, I’d just share to you the “Halley,s Bible Handbook pp. 646”. It says that since the 4th century it was accepted by many that St. Paul was the one who wrote the epistle to the Hebrew because St. Paul had the mastery of the Hebrew and Aramaic languages. According to Dr. Henry H. Halley, the author of “Halley’s Bible Handbook”, that St. Luke translated it to Greek. According to this book, the New Testament was written in Greek except the gospel of Matthew.
.

you’re not Catholic, are you?

You may see my profile and if it is not worth believing, it’s apt to you !

This is correct, it’s a faint outline of the good things to COME…future tense…This, like the prophecy of Jeremiah, will not come to complete fruition until Christ returns.

You are funny, my friend! Everybody in the Christian world knows that the 2nd coming of Christ would be the last judgment.
You know, there’s a saying that says “It’s hard to awake someone who pretends to be sleeping”.