I completely don't understand - Jesuit Pierre Teilhard De Chardin and Pope Benedict

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I know that Chardin described himself as a pantheist directly in a quote a number of times. From what I’ve read it seems like he believes in a personal God. so this term “pantheism” is a loose term and doesn’t necessarily exclude a personal God?

The quote from him read something like “I am essentially a pantheist”. ???
 
I know that Chardin described himself as a pantheist directly in a quote a number of times. From what I’ve read it seems like he believes in a personal God. so this term “pantheism” is a loose term and doesn’t necessarily exclude a personal God?

The quote from him read something like “I am essentially a pantheist”. ???
archive.org/details/HymnOfTheUniverse

Read the Prefatory Letter
 
Forgive my ignorance, which one (number) is that? and what should I be looking for content wise? thanks.
The book is opened to the title page. Click on the title page and it will turn the page. The Prefatory Letter is on the next page.
 
The book is opened to the title page. Click on the title page and it will turn the page. The Prefatory Letter is on the next page.
Thanks for the link, you’ve been so helpful! I wonder who wrote that preface?

I wonder then where the quotes come from where he calls himself “a panthiest” or “essentially a panthiest”. Perhaps the quote(s) was taken out of context or perhaps he was reacting to being accused of being a panthiest. Not sure…
 
Thanks for all the great (name removed by moderator)ut! Anyone else have any other thoughts? How should I read the quotes by Chardin? Are his quotes that I posted in the first post, taken out of context?
 
Hello Fishy.
Thanks for all the great (name removed by moderator)ut! Anyone else have any other thoughts? How should I read the quotes by Chardin? Are his quotes that I posted in the first post, taken out of context?
I understand your angst over finding Ratzinger/Benedict using quotations from Chardin and finding something of redeemable value in some of the words he wrote. Keep in mind the daily walk of the man. During his days he read hundreds of thousands of pages of witness testimonies, transcripts, interviews, documents and all the other media sources regarding the priestly abuse scandals as well as having to interview them himself. A good chunk of his life’s works involved him looking into the darkest sides of human nature and at the person whose darkness wounded others. Think of this sort of like the photographer who needs to go to the darkroom to develop his pictures. The picture the Vicar of Christ needed was the clearest and he didn’t fear looking at the hediousness of it all. I am amazed when I think of this side of his life to have had to look into that darkness and not be taken under it sway. Christ was there with him the whole way and was his guiding light while he dealt with the filth of human nature towards the end of his career. It is no ordinary task to deal with that stuff and remain unscathed. Look at the stats on PTSD among those who work in the field of corrections and you’ll get an idea of what staring into the darkness of human nature and its acts can do. It destroys some to have to deal with it. Period. People get hurt by it and not just those who are it’s direct victims. He left behind this work to have some peace from it towards the end of his life. The wisdom of his decision to go may have said much about the toll dealing with the priestly scandals every day took on him.

Look at the things you find shocking in this light and see if you see what I mean. Darkness leaves a shadow on the things it touches and to dwell in the Light of Christ for the remainder of his days was his choice and his victory over the sins of others he had to deal with.

Glenda
 
I think that was done away with before his problem came up. God Bless, Memaw
I checked to be sure, Memaw. It was. The index was abolished in 1966. 🙂

de Chardin died in 1955, so yes, it was still around in his life time and so none of his books were ever part of the Index. 🙂

(have to admit that is twists my stomach that the Church had such a list. Oy Vey. Talk about micro-manage it’s people… :eek: )
 
Hello Fishy.

I understand your angst over finding Ratzinger/Benedict using quotations from Chardin and finding something of redeemable value in some of the words he wrote. Keep in mind the daily walk of the man. During his days he read hundreds of thousands of pages of witness testimonies, transcripts, interviews, documents and all the other media sources regarding the priestly abuse scandals as well as having to interview them himself. A good chunk of his life’s works involved him looking into the darkest sides of human nature and at the person whose darkness wounded others. Think of this sort of like the photographer who needs to go to the darkroom to develop his pictures. The picture the Vicar of Christ needed was the clearest and he didn’t fear looking at the hediousness of it all. I am amazed when I think of this side of his life to have had to look into that darkness and not be taken under it sway. Christ was there with him the whole way and was his guiding light while he dealt with the filth of human nature towards the end of his career. It is no ordinary task to deal with that stuff and remain unscathed. Look at the stats on PTSD among those who work in the field of corrections and you’ll get an idea of what staring into the darkness of human nature and its acts can do. It destroys some to have to deal with it. Period. People get hurt by it and not just those who are it’s direct victims. He left behind this work to have some peace from it towards the end of his life. The wisdom of his decision to go may have said much about the toll dealing with the priestly scandals every day took on him.

Look at the things you find shocking in this light and see if you see what I mean. Darkness leaves a shadow on the things it touches and to dwell in the Light of Christ for the remainder of his days was his choice and his victory over the sins of others he had to deal with.

Glenda
You’re making it seem as if Benedict’s [partial] endorsement of Teilhard is something to be “explained” or apologized for. Why?

And he wrote glowingly of Teilhard long before he served as prefect of the CDF. This is just a red herring.

Edwin
 
You’re making it seem as if Benedict’s [partial] endorsement of Teilhard is something to be “explained” or apologized for. Why?

And he wrote glowingly of Teilhard long before he served as prefect of the CDF. This is just a red herring.

Edwin
**OK - so I put some serious hours into actually READING Chardin’s works and his quotes.

Here are my findings - Man oh man was I wrong.

Put into context - with a healthy understanding that the man was a mystic, and a poet, and did veer off the deep end occasionally, and spoke a different language, and was human, and wasn’t a theologian, and made up words - the man was for the most part, almost - in the important part of his work and his core beliefs - almost just almost, orthodox.

As ususal, one should look at ALL the facts.

I have no problem now with Pope Benedict quoting him. Chardin had his dangerous faults because of flowery language and a too-strong passion for the bilogical, and there is his only downfall.

Bendict is clearly picking up the good in him, and adding to it - in the way only he (Benedict) can.**

Is there danger in Chardin’s work - yes. Is it blatantly non-orthodox - I don’t think so.
 
Hello Fishy.

I understand your angst over finding Ratzinger/Benedict using quotations from Chardin and finding something of redeemable value in some of the words he wrote. Keep in mind the daily walk of the man. During his days he read hundreds of thousands of pages of witness testimonies, transcripts, interviews, documents and all the other media sources regarding the priestly abuse scandals as well as having to interview them himself. A good chunk of his life’s works involved him looking into the darkest sides of human nature and at the person whose darkness wounded others. Think of this sort of like the photographer who needs to go to the darkroom to develop his pictures. The picture the Vicar of Christ needed was the clearest and he didn’t fear looking at the hediousness of it all. I am amazed when I think of this side of his life to have had to look into that darkness and not be taken under it sway. Christ was there with him the whole way and was his guiding light while he dealt with the filth of human nature towards the end of his career. It is no ordinary task to deal with that stuff and remain unscathed. Look at the stats on PTSD among those who work in the field of corrections and you’ll get an idea of what staring into the darkness of human nature and its acts can do. It destroys some to have to deal with it. Period. People get hurt by it and not just those who are it’s direct victims. He left behind this work to have some peace from it towards the end of his life. The wisdom of his decision to go may have said much about the toll dealing with the priestly scandals every day took on him.

Look at the things you find shocking in this light and see if you see what I mean. Darkness leaves a shadow on the things it touches and to dwell in the Light of Christ for the remainder of his days was his choice and his victory over the sins of others he had to deal with.

Glenda
Thanks, but…

OK - so I put some serious hours into actually READING Chardin’s works and his quotes.

Here are my findings - Man oh man was I wrong.

Put into context - with a healthy understanding that the man was a mystic, and a poet, and did veer off the deep end occasionally, and spoke a different language, and was human, and wasn’t a theologian, and made up words - the man was for the most part, almost - in the important part of his work and his core beliefs - almost just almost, orthodox.

As ususal, one should look at ALL the facts.

I have no problem now with Pope Benedict quoting him. Chardin had his dangerous faults because of flowery language and a too-strong passion for the bilogical, and there is his only downfall.

Bendict is clearly picking up the good in him, and adding to it - in the way only he (Benedict) can.

Is there danger in Chardin’s work - yes. Is it blatantly non-orthodox - I don’t think so.
 
I just ordered his “Hymn of the Universe”

Looking forward to reading it…
 
Read it here:

archive.org/details/HymnOfTheUniverse

Again, I am not so much endorsing the mans work as a whole, in that I think his scientist leanings kept him from seeing the supernatural, which is unfortunate, i just don’t see him as the completely un-orthodox person I thought he was.
 
Peter Abelard - his teaching on the Trinity was a scandal but he is in many ways the progenitor of scholastic theology and predecessor of St. Thomas Aquinas. His works were widely studied by all entering the priesthood prior to the publication of the Summa and St. Thomas wrote a commentary on his seminal work, “The Sentences.”
I think you have conflated Abelard with Peter Lombard.
 
Read it here:

archive.org/details/HymnOfTheUniverse

Again, I am not so much endorsing the mans work as a whole, in that I think his scientist leanings kept him from seeing the supernatural, which is unfortunate, i just don’t see him as the completely un-orthodox person I thought he was.
Never knew any human wasn’t flawed, one way or the other. That includes priests, deacons, bishops, even popes… 🙂

God never intended any one person to possess all gifts and sensitivities, intelligence.

We are all different parts of the same body. Some, feet, some hands, some eyes, some ears, some legs, etc etc…
 
Hello Edwin.
You’re making it seem as if Benedict’s [partial] endorsement of Teilhard is something to be “explained” or apologized for. Why?

And he wrote glowingly of Teilhard long before he served as prefect of the CDF. This is just a red herring.

Edwin
I’m at a loss. Can you show how I am making it seem that Benedict’s “endorsement” is apologized for? He read lots of things that weren’t meant for everyone’s eyes. No one ever said Pope Benedict ENDORSED Chardin, although his use of him can be confusing to those who don’t fully comprehend the context in which he uses his stuff. It is understandable to me. I got taken aback when he used Origen. In that way I can empathize with the OP’s confusion.

Glenda
 
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