Personal opinions can be either correct or incorrect. It is the teaching of the Church (Pope alone or in union with Magisterium) which decides matters officially for faith and morals. Until an official ruling is made, it can be freely debated.The true point here is that the Catholic Church put itself in a bad place, in my opinion and others, by allowing books that have errors as part of Catholic Scripture as a knee jerk reaction to the reformers. Now they are stuck with error. Error is not from God is it?
Thank you for your infallible pronouncement.**
Tom,
You can read the Bible all you want; but unless you are regenerate, which you have proven otherwise, you cannot understand what you read. No eternal security, not for you, but I can speak for myself and I know with certainty that my home is in heaven and I will be with the Lord; as I am already.
I read 4 of the above passages at random and to no surprise; you are totally ignorant of Scripture.Ignorance is curable; but only by the hand of God.**
This pretty much explains the sad state your are in.**
Tom,
You can read the Bible all you want; but unless you are regenerate, which you have proven otherwise, you cannot understand what you read. No eternal security, not for you, but I can speak for myself and I know with certainty that my home is in heaven and I will be with the Lord; as I am already.
I read 4 of the above passages at random and to no surprise; you are totally ignorant of Scripture.Ignorance is curable; but only by the hand of God.**
Once again, I refer you to this thread:The true point here is that the Catholic Church put itself in a bad place, in my opinion and others, by allowing books that have errors as part of Catholic Scripture as a knee jerk reaction to the reformers. Now they are stuck with error. Error is not from God is it?
paul c,Again, DeRonde, where are your credentials that show that you speak for God on this. Speaking for yourself isn’t very convincing. I wouldn’t bet my soul that you are right, merely because you say so. Give us a reason to do so. You are brazen about saying that others are ignorant merely because they disagree with you. Prove in anyway that you are correct in this assessment.
The link did not work Tomster. I have it here:Once again, I refer you to this thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?=320468&page=8
post #119
Error is not from God. That is correct statement. (Finally you got one right).
Please give us your infallible explanation, if you would be so kind, as to the errors of the reformers, you know, things like eternal security, sola scriptura, sola fide and the like.
Tom,Once again, I refer you to this thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?=320468&page=8
post #119
Error is not from God. That is correct statement. (Finally you got one right).
Please give us your infallible explanation, if you would be so kind, as to the errors of the reformers, you know, things like eternal security, sola scriptura, sola fide and the like.
**The fact that you must ask tells me you and Steve do not know what the Scripture says in regards to a child of God and who the teacher of the truth concerning God’s word is. You believe that a “Church” has some sort of copyright on the word of God, but that is not what Scripture teaches.Again, DeRonde, where are your credentials that show that you speak for God on this. Speaking for yourself isn’t very convincing. I wouldn’t bet my soul that you are right, merely because you say so. Give us a reason to do so. You are brazen about saying that others are ignorant merely because they disagree with you. Prove in anyway that you are correct in this assessment.
I read through your 11 tests (and it really isn’t that complex). Its really not that inspired though**The fact that you must ask tells me you and Steve do not know what the Scripture says in regards to a child of God and who the teacher of the truth concerning God’s word is. You believe that a “Church” has some sort of copyright on the word of God, but that is not what Scripture teaches.
If you really want to have an idea where you stand before God; I invite you to look at the 11 tests of salvation as 1 John presents and to which I have posted.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=320509**
See how well you do; it will take some time to read through it, but each test must be shown and explained.
Please show me your Scriptural proofs for both sola scriptura and sola fide and then I will be happy to show you my own understanding of them.Tom,
**
You show me that you understand sola scriptura and sola fide and then I will address. Most Catholics here will ignore or distract from this; so we will see what you do.**
Please answer the man’s request if you’re going to bother to respond. These forums are full of Catholics who are quite knowledgeable about sola scriptura, sola fide, or anything else you may care to mention. There’s no need to play games or predict what you think “most Catholics here” will do. Disagreement over the validity of sola scriptura or how non-Catholics usually present sola fide doesn’t mean we don’t understand what they are.Tom,
**
You show me that you understand sola scriptura and sola fide and then I will address. Most Catholics here will ignore or distract from this; so we will see what you do.**
You only read four of them? Try reading ALL of them. You can’t just pick and choose which verses you want to use to prove your invalid thesis. Besides, picking and choosing is sure sign of heresy.**
Tom,
You can read the Bible all you want; but unless you are regenerate, which you have proven otherwise, you cannot understand what you read. No eternal security, not for you, but I can speak for myself and I know with certainty that my home is in heaven and I will be with the Lord; as I am already.
I read 4 of the above passages at random and to no surprise; you are totally ignorant of Scripture.Ignorance is curable; but only by the hand of God.**
**It is not my test; it is what is in 1 John; you either did not have the time to read and consider in its entirety and/or you do not understand what it says.I read through your 11 tests (and it really isn’t that complex). Its really not that inspired though
Test #1 Have You Enjoyed Fellowship with Christ and the Father?
Test #2 Are You Sensitive to Sin?
#3 Test - Do You Obey God’s Word?
#4 Test - Do You Reject This Evil World?
#5 Test - Do You Eagerly Await Christ’s Return?
#6 Test - Do You See a Decreasing Pattern of Sin in Your Life?
#7 Test - Do You Love Other Christians?
#8 Test - Do You Experience Answered Prayer?
#9 Test - Do You Experience the Ministry of the Holy Spirit?
#10 Test - Can You Discern between Spiritual Truth and Error?
#11 Final Test - Have You Suffered Rejection Because of Your Faith?
The problem with this list is that you could be in complete error on your teachings and still pass this test. You could also apostacize tomorrow and no longer pass it. And by the way, we are called to love everyone, enemies included, not just our Christian brothers.
I’ll give you the simpler, Catholic version:
This is good for any point in time. Like your test, when you cease to do the things on the list, you are no longer passing the test. But in reality, we are not our own judges so we don’t spend time judging ourselves.
- Have you been bapitzed in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit?
- have you stayed in the state of Grace by doing the will of God?
- When you have sinned, have you confessed it contritely and done the required penance through the sacrament of reconciliation?
As I said in the previous posts Catholics either ignore or throw in a distraction concerning answering the question as to their understanding…thanks for proving the point!Please show me your Scriptural proofs for both sola scriptura and sola fide and then I will be happy to show you my own understanding of them.
Pax,
SHW
**If the four I randomly chose to look at show you have no understanding of Scripture; it is a good bet that the rest do not pertain to the context of the topic.You only read four of them? Try reading ALL of them. You can’t just pick and choose which verses you want to use to prove your invalid thesis. Besides, picking and choosing is sure sign of heresy.
It is yours or his interpretation of 1 John. recognize that.**It is not my test; it is what is in 1 John; you either did not have the time to read and consider in its entirety and/or you do not understand what it says.
The point is that a child of God can and will pass and endure till the end because it is the power of God that dwells in them. You just don’t get it???**
Your entire approach and methodology of hyper-quantizing and slicing-and-dicing verses into what you imagine are bite-size micro-truths demonstrates that you are not suited to ask the question as if the teacher. Satan tried that with The Lord and was brusquely sent away in humiliation. The Written Word of God must be taken holistically and in context with Apostolic Teaching and Sacred Tradition (which is also part of the Word of God not written to prevent charlatans and those outside The Church from stealing the Kingdom of Heaven or by force of Gnostic like knowledge). You try to put yourself into a position of teaching the teachers just like the Gnostics did in the Apostles time and so you are showing the same arrogance and darkness of error. Moderate your pride and start asking Catholics what we believe before you try to self appoint yourself as their teacher if you want to learn the truth. No one can say they love and accept The Lord while hating His Bride (The Church), calling Her ignorant and putting her to the test.**If the four I randomly chose to look at show you have no understanding of Scripture; it is a good bet that the rest do not pertain to the context of the topic.
What is God teaching in this passage?
(Romans 5) “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.”**
It is correct; unless you can show me otherwise, but I don’t think the Holy Spirit misguided me.It is yours or his interpretation of 1 John. recognize that.
Still no definitions, eh? Well, time’s up. You don’t have an answer. You don’t know and you don’t know that you don’t know. You’re in sad shape my friend.Thank you for your infallible pronouncement.
Would you please, then, give us your definitons of salvation and redemption. Is there a difference between the two or they one and the same thing?
First of all, I’m not a betting man, especially when it comes to my salvation. Like the apostle Paul, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling.**If the four I randomly chose to look at show you have no understanding of Scripture; it is a good bet that the rest do not pertain to the context of the topic.
What is God teaching in this passage?
(Romans 5) “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.”**