"...the human person has a right to religious freedom...This right of the human person to religious freedom is to be recognized in the constitutional law whereby society is governed; thus it is to become a civil right." Vatican Council II: "Declaration on Religious Liberty" (Dignitatis Humanae) #2, Dec. 7, 1965.I just started a new thread for a discussion on ecumenism.Now Roma—dont get off the topic–Id be happy to debate ecumenism --if you want start a new thread about that–but you have still havent dealt with the facts in my earlier posts—how can we know who the next Pope will be???
(d. 1825): "It seemed to me to behold the heavens opening, and St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, coming down, surrounded with great glory and by a numerous escort of heavenly spirits, singing canticles. St. Peter was dressed in his pontifical robes, and held in his right hand the pastoral staff, with which he was drawing upon the earth an immense cross: at the same time the angels sang these words of the Psalmist, ‘You will constitute them princes over the whole earth.’
… All good Christians shall then be protected … I say the same thing in relation to the secular clergy and to all other persons of every class who shall have kept in their heart the Catholic faith; they shall all be protected. But woe, to those religious who do not observe their rule! thrice unhappy they! for they shall all be struck by that terrible punishment. I say the same to all secular clergy, and to all classes of people in the world who give themselves to a life of pleasure, and who follow the false maxims of modern ideas, which are opposed to the holy precepts of the gospel. These wretched people, who through their scandalous conduct deny the faith of Jesus Christ, shall perish under the weight of the indignant arm of God’s justice. Not one of them shall be able to escape the punishment. …
Innumerable legions of demons shall overrun the earth, and shall execute the orders of Divine Justice by causing terrible calamities and disasters; … God will allow the demons to strike with death those impious men, because they gave themselves up to the infernal powers, and had formed with them a compact against the Catholic Church.Code:"All men shall rise one against the other, and they shall kill one another without pity. During this sanguinary conflict the avenging arm of God will strike the wicked, and in his mighty power he will punish their pride and presumption. God will employ the powers of hell for the extermination of these impious and heretical persons who desire to overthrow the Church and destroy it to its very foundation. These presumptuous men in their mad impiety believe that they can overthrow God from His throne; but the will despise their artifices, and through an effect of His Mighty Hand He will punish these impious blasphemers by giving permission to the infernal spirits to come out from hell.
… Happy will be all true and good Catholics! They shall experience the powerful protection of the holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, who will watch over them lest they may be injured either in their persons or their property. Those evil spirits shall plunder every place where God has been outraged, despised, and blasphemed; the edifices they profaned will be pulled down and destroyed, and nothing but ruins shall remain of them.
Code:**"After this frightful Punishment I saw the heavens opening, and St. Peter coming down again upon earth; he was vested in his pontifical robes, and surrounded by a great number of angels, who were chanting hymns in his honour, and they proclaimed him as sovereign of the earth. I saw also St. Paul descending upon the earth. By God's command, he traversed the earth and chained the demons, whom he brought before St. Peter, who commanded them to return into hell, whence they had come. "Then a great light appeared upon the earth which was the sign of the reconciliation of God with man. The angels conducted before the throne of the prince of the Apostles the small flock that had remained faithful to Jesus Christ. These good and zealous Christians testified to him the most profound respect, praising God and thanking the Apostles for having delivered them from the common destruction, and for having protected the Church of Jesus Christ by not permitting her to be infected with the false maxims of the world. St. Peter then chose the new pope. The Church was again organized;** religious orders were re-established; the private families of ordinary Christians, through their great fervour and zeal for the glory of God, became like the most exemplary religious communities. Such is the glorious triumph reserved for the Catholic Church; she shall be praised, honoured, and esteemed by all men. All men shall become Catholics, and shall acknowledge the Pope as Vicar of Jesus Christ."
This has never happened - so there is no need for any church document to clarify the matter.Still waiting for that Church document on electing a Pope when there are no cardinals or whatever.
I would love to hear this debate as soon as I get the free time.
Let us know what you think of the debate.I would love to hear this debate as soon as I get the free time.
Im glad someone posted it
I’m not a Sedavacantist, but I am aware of more than one prophecy of the Apostles Peter and Paul coming down from heaven and electing a new Pope after a very great crisis in the Church. These are not new prophecies made up by Sedavacantits. They are very old.I guees none of the sedevacantist will give us an explanation on how the Catholic church will know when the next Pope will be elected.? I fuRther guees that they wont be able to give one example in Church history where not only has the Papal see been vacant for nearly 50 years, but also the electors (of the next Pope) have also died off.
Here’s one of the prophecies I was talking about:LOL PLEASE—LET ME SEE THEM----remember private revelations, even if approved, are not necessarily to be be believed in their entirety—what the Church does say is that their is nothing in these “messges” that contradict the faith.
This has never happened - so there is no need for any church document to clarify the matter.
That’s like creating a law of succession for the british monarchy in case all those currently in the line of succession are blown up, leaving the throne empty. In the UK this has never happened (and would never happen because there are currently too many relatives of the Queen for some terrorist to wipe them all out). Hence there is no such law in the UK.
A sede vacante without cardinal-electors has never happened in 2, 000 history of the papacy. If it were to happen in the future, as far as roman law is concerned, the rule of precedent would apply.
I will listen to this. It sounds like an interesting debate, I wonder why the original poster did not provide the link? I have come across these brothers before, and this would be good to listen to since they are also claiming victory in the debate. Thank you for the link and God Bless.
Yes, these prophesies may exemplify, however this may be unfortunate, the stance of Brothers Dimond.Here’s one of the prophecies I was talking about:
Blessed Anna Maria Taigi: (1769 - 1837) “After the three days of darkness, St. Peter and St. Paul, having come down from Heaven, will preach in the whole world and designate a new Pope. A great light will flash from their bodies and will settle upon the cardinal who is to become Pope. Christianity, then, will spread throughout the world. He is the Holy Pontiff, chosen by God to withstand the storm. At the end, he will have the gift of miracles, and his name shall be praised over the whole earth. Whole nations will come back to the Church and the face of the earth will be renewed. Russia, England, and China will come into the Church.” (She was Beatified by Pope Bendedict XV in 1920 A.D.)
I quoted another similar prophecy in post #27.
Again, I am not claiming that these prophecies are infallible, but they do provide an answer to the question, and may even serve as a confirmation for the Dimon Brother’s position.
And just so you know, I am no fan of the Dimond Brothers. I have spent hours on the phone arguing with them myself.
The pope IS Benedict XVI.The debate is on their web site, and the topic is sedavacantism. In the debate I hammer home a number of points. My main argument was this: Vatican I teaches that Peter will have successors in perpetuity. This doesnt mean there will be a Pope every second of every period of time. All Catholics acknowledge that the Papal see is vacant in between Popes. In order for Vatican I to make sense the Church has to be able to discern who the Pope is and who the Pope isnt. There has never been a period in Church history where the Papal see has been vacant, and all the electors (in this case the Cardinals ) have also died off. There has always been a way to discern who the Pope was/is. Even during the great western schism one could still discern who was validly elected. The sedavacantist position sets up utter chaos because, unless God comes down from heaven and writes it in the sky, one can never no for sure who holds the Papal see.(who would elect a new Pope?) The Dimond brothers responded by saying there was a case in Church history when a Pope was elected, but it is not known how. (at the time of the debate I didnt know about this case) They cited Pope Martin I (Pope from 649-653) and Pope Eugene (654-657). Pope Martin was exiled and Pope Eugene was elected Pope while Martin was still alive. Look at the dates. How long did Pope Eugene serve for? 3 years !!! actually not quite 3 years. (I went back and looked at this example after the debate) How can this be used to contradict or correlate with what the sedavacantist position is??? Even if Pope Eugene was not validly elected(he is recognized as a valid Pope) he still only reigned for three years, and the electors (Roman clergy at the time) were still alive to elect another valid Pope. NEVER EVER EVER HAS THERE BEEN A PERIOD IN CHURCH HISTORY WHERE THE PAPAL SEE HAS BEEN VACANT AND ALL THE ELECTORS TO ELECT ANOTHER POPE WERE ALSO GONE!!! THIS IS AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO BROTHER PETER AND BROTHER MICHAEL DIMOND TO DEBATE MORE ON THIS ISSUE OR ANY OTHER ISSUE THEY WANT. I HAVE REPEATEDLY CHALLENGED BOTH OF THESE BROTHERS TO HAVE ANOTHER DEBATE BUT HAVENT HEARD BACK FROM THEM.