"I didn't give up alcohol because I wanted to flee the evils of the world. I gave up alcohol as a way of engaging the evils of the world."

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christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/june/why-i-gave-up-alcohol.html?share=ciOq+4zux%2FoW6jM1IaARvSkNOZEyPE3+&paging=off#bmb=1

This is a link to a fascinating article in Christianity Today dated May 22, 2014 (so it’s recent). It’s written by a young woman, and it’s written well. She is obviously not an anti-Catholic fundamentalist-sect separatist.

The key statement in the article is the title of this thread: “I didn’t give up alcohol because I wanted to flee the evils of the world. I gave up alcohol as a way of engaging the evils of the world.”

The author of the article has indisputable practical experience that puts me personally to shame.

I think this article will help Catholics to understand more completely the Evangelical Protestant outlook on alcohol use. I get very frustrated because I think that Catholics have a very limited understanding of Protestant abstinence. When I try to describe the Evangelical Protestant POV, Catholics insist that alcohol is part of God’s good creation and that Protestants need to adjust their conscience.

I think this article does a good job of explaining the reasoning behind the Evangelical Protestant history of abstinence, and I think it help Catholics to understand why many Evangelical Protestants will never be able to adjust their conscience to include using alcohol.

I hope Catholics and others will read the article, which is scholarly without being stuffy. I would be interested in the Catholic Christian response.

I hope the article and this thread are helpful to you.
 
The church down through the centuries has engaged in drinking alcohol—the early church assumes wine for Communion, weddings, and medicinal purposes. But it also cautioned against drunkenness and understood that some Christians would need to abstain from wine (and meat) as a matter of conscience.
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The author is quite correct here.
When we take Communion with our friends and neighbors, we use grape-flavored Kool-Aid as a symbol of Christ’s blood, shed for us.
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But here she is just plain silly.
 
Thank you for sharing, I found it to be a well written article and like the ideas she presented and how she presented them,
 
“I didn’t give up alcohol because I wanted to flee the evils of the world. I gave up alcohol as a way of engaging the evils of the world.”

Whoever it is stopped running from the pain. Confronting their own self. Very good, glad you posted the thinking Cat.

Peace
 
Cat said:
christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/june/why-i-gave-up-alcohol.html?share=ciOq+4zux%2FoW6jM1IaARvSkNOZEyPE3+&paging=off#bmb=1

I would be interested in the Catholic Christian response.

I hope the article and this thread are helpful to you.
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Thank you for posting. I doubt you will find a standard response among Catholics concerning alcohol. I know the Church’s official position - fine in moderation - and there are the stereotypes, like Belloc’s “Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there’s always laughter and good red wine,” but an individual Catholic’s view of alcohol will most always be shaped by their individual experience, especially their family life.

For me, the article was preaching to the choir, since I choose not to drink alcohol. The author’s point about not drinking in order to fully engage with the world immediately reminded me of my father, who drank excessively for many years precisely as a means of escape, of disengaging with his world. He came from a Protestant background, and when I researched his side of our family I discovered a long love-hate relationship with alcohol. It seemed to skip generations: my 3rd great grandfather clearly was a problem drinker, and his son was (consequently?) a strident teetotaler. My dad’s drinking damaged his health and relationships, and I do not drink. But my adult son does…

Anyway, thanks for posting.
 
I find here the simple call to moderation. And if a person can’t practice that then abstaining is the only way to go. To those who have a family history of alcoholism: choose abstaining before you take that first drink. You could save yourself a lot of grief and break the cycle of addiction in your family.
 
People who choose to not drink or quit drinking alcohol do it for various reasons. I used to consume alcohol beyond excess. It was truly gluttony. What I have learned through prayer and personal discernment is that there is nothing wrong with alcohol or consuming it. Truly it is one of the many gifts from God. What I learned was that I can respect God and his gift by not abusing and consuming it to the excess. I do have a beer and I can keep it to just one. I enjoy the taste of a good craft beer, especially an IPA particularly when pairing it with certain foods. It is the point at which one becomes impaired that becomes the problem. When spending all your money that God gave you is spent on it for the sole purpose of becoming a drunk that is a problem.

I have friends who I believe are alcoholics and they see that I do have a beer. They have asked me “why don’t you have another!?” I usually reply to them that I enjoyed a beer and I don’t need anymore. I believe that I can be an example of respecting it and my body and my family.

Growing up my family and even distant relatives were (are) Evangelicals and they would never consume alcohol. As I got older and saw how judgmental they were towards those who do, even if it was only 1 glass of wine or 1 beer, it completely put me off. If they so choose to abstain from alcohol, that’s fine. But to sit in judgment of others is completely wrong. I always liked to point out the wedding at Cana. Not only did Jesus turn water into wine but it was the best wine and was provided to people who had already been consuming wine. They weren’t fond of that point. So it stands to reason this is why Protestant Churches during their communion serve grape juice. That and the argument was that the “wine” at the wedding at Cana was actually grape juice. Which is false.

Bottom line is that if a person chooses to not partake of alcohol for whatever reason, that’s fine. If someone chooses to in responsible moderation and respect to God that is also fine.
 
I have no problem whatsoever with Evangelicals abstinence from alcohol. I am not a drinker myself. My father was an alcoholic, and I married one, yet I am not absolutely against alcohol. My problem is the extent to which they will go to to condemn alcohol use, even to the extent of making up ridiculous stories about how Jesus did not drink wine, how there was a certain way to make a drink that they called wine but which was actually non-fermented grape juice which Jesus drank, and to substitute kool-aid for wine at Communion services. A denial of the truth to suit their own preconceived notions–IOW making the Bible say what they want it to say. Maybe they don’t want to believe Jesus would drink, but some of them will not listen to reason.

Not all Evangelicals and fundamentalists are like this, but I was raised around enough of them to know there are plenty that are. Now I consider twisting Scripture to suit one’s own agenda far more serious than taking a drink.

However, whether to drink or not to drink is a personal choice, IMO, and I am with the author, one who prefers to deal with the world in a sober manner.
 
I haven’t read the article yet, but I will. However, I came out of two Protestant traditions that were strongly teetotalitarian ( 😃 ), and I understand both the reasons why my spiritual forebears completely rejected alcohol. I also understand where they are completely wrong, especially about the difference between wine and grape juice (which was not even possible until Dr. Welch invented the pasteurization process for grape juice in the late 1800s).

With me, the decision not to drink is a very personal choice, taken for two reasons. First, I am a “supertaster,” and any bitterness in food or drink (like, for instance, beer) turns my mouth inside out. Second, something in my is also very sensitive to alcohol. Any kind of excess in consumption, and I wind up calling Huey and Ralph up out of the toilet bowl 😛
 
PaulfromIowa said:
But here she is just plain silly.
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If one view communion only as symbolic, it matters not what is used.

I find the use of “causing a brother to stumble” a poor application of the teaching of Paul. He was speaking of doctrinal issues, specifically idolatry, not any moral issue. The question was whether animal sacrifice to false gods remained somehow tainted if eaten by a Christian. His response was doctrine. Now, this verse is applied to alcohol, cigarettes, dancing and anything else an individual views as bad without some biblical or ecclesial prohibition.

One thing I see in the article is a good use of prudence. The author is in a situation where alcohol consumption caused great misery and gives it up to engage those around.
 
pnewton said:
If one view communion only as symbolic, it matters not what is used.

I find the use of “causing a brother to stumble” a poor application of the teaching of Paul. He was speaking of doctrinal issues, specifically idolatry, not any moral issue. The question was whether animal sacrifice to false gods remained somehow tainted if eaten by a Christian. His response was doctrine. Now, this verse is applied to alcohol, cigarettes, dancing and anything else an individual views as bad without some biblical or ecclesial prohibition.

One thing I see in the article is a good use of prudence. The author is in a situation where alcohol consumption caused great misery and gives it up to engage those around.
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👍
 
Jesus drank - never to excess surely, but enough to open Himself up to accusations of being a drunkard, which would have been impossible if He had been a teetotaller.

Paul told Timothy to drink wine for the sake of his health, and modern medicine has found that people who have a few drinks a week are indeed healthier on average than comparable teetotallers.

In short, there is no scriptural basis for a blanket condemnation of drinking for all people, although clearly for some it can be so problematic that they are best avoiding alcohol altogether.
 
Without taking away from this womans generosity of spirit… she was conveying a more New Age/Protestant, take on the efficacy of abstinence. It seems like a similar concept to the 40 Hour Famine where the abstinence or fasting can be mistaken as more than just empathising and alms giving… but a direct transferral of grace from ones act to a specific target in a butterfly effect type scenario.

As Catholics our acts of prayer, fasting, abstinence are to do with joining ourselves to the sacrifice of Christ and imploring an outpouring of Gods grace and mercy for our suffering neighbours by that means.

Mother Teresa was a great example of this. She lived in poverty without possesions in her relationship with God, but her self giving to the sick and poor was very practical in the spirit of a humble servant of God.
 
I think it is an interesting article Cat. I think the author described her journey of non-use, use back to non-use and that really has more to do with the type of ministry the author has and total abstinence makes sense considering that. I’m not sure how that translates for everyone though or even for Catholics to understand this background. There are plenty of warnings against excessive drinking but likewise one can’t claim that the wine used in scripture wasn’t fermented which is what a number of total abstinence groups try to claim. Even beyond Christianity, Islam and Mormonism have a total abstinence of alcohol. I do think alcohol use is a hidden barrier for people coming from these backgrounds. I think alcohol use among Catholics stems more from the ethnic origins than religious which was brought up in the thread about parish festivals and the selling of beer at these events. Jewish religious ceremonies use wine and are an integral part of them yet alcohol abuse among Jews is extremely low. I think a total abstinence of alcohol is more of a discipline and if someone feels that this should be part of their spiritual discipline then that can be respected. Some religious orders do not eat meat and are vegetarian as a parallel comparison.
 
I think the article is interesting as well. But I don’t agree with her conclusions. I was raised by Evangelical/Fundamentalist parents who were complete hippocrits on this matter. They thought it perfectly fine to drink heavily and smoke like trains AS long as you did it on the sly at the same time condemning those who did the same things openly to hell. Drinking, smoking, dancing, and for some reason playing cards were all tabu to them. Both of them died from smoking, dad from lung cancer when he was only 34! And mom later from emphasema. It is smoking that really made me angry. You can drink within reason, but smoking is addictive and you can’t smoke with reason or in reason. I found it odd when dad called people ‘junkies’ when he could not survive long enough to go to church without 4 or 5 cigarettes.

I think a lot of Protestants are brought up so that drinking becomes an exciting challenge. so many cannot have just one drink and then stop, they have to go whole hog.

I prefer the Jewish approach, for Jews wine is like a sacrament, and all drink wine tho for children it is watered down. At Passover 4 or 5 cups of wine are drank, and it is just a normal part of life not exciting or tabu. And I have never heard of or met a Jewish achoholic.
 
Hey, don’t ignore the companion piece, “The Teetotalers I Never Knew,” which gives more of the historical background. It happens to be written by my wife 😛
 
Contarini said:
Hey, don’t ignore the companion piece, “The Teetotalers I Never Knew,” which gives more of the historical background. It happens to be written by my wife 😛
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Cool! Can you provide the link? Thanks!
 
andrewstx said:
I think the article is interesting as well. But I don’t agree with her conclusions. I was raised by Evangelical/Fundamentalist parents who were complete hippocrits on this matter. They thought it perfectly fine to drink heavily and smoke like trains AS long as you did it on the sly at the same time condemning those who did the same things openly to hell. Drinking, smoking, dancing, and for some reason playing cards were all tabu to them. Both of them died from smoking, dad from lung cancer when he was only 34! And mom later from emphasema. It is smoking that really made me angry. You can drink within reason, but smoking is addictive and you can’t smoke with reason or in reason. I found it odd when dad called people ‘junkies’ when he could not survive long enough to go to church without 4 or 5 cigarettes.

I think a lot of Protestants are brought up so that drinking becomes an exciting challenge. so many cannot have just one drink and then stop, they have to go whole hog.

I prefer the Jewish approach, for Jews wine is like a sacrament, and all drink wine tho for children it is watered down. At Passover 4 or 5 cups of wine are drank, and it is just a normal part of life not exciting or tabu. And I have never heard of or met a Jewish achoholic.
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I’m sorry this was your experience. It has not been my experience.

I’ve known many Evangelical Protestants all my life (I’m 57), and they truly do not drink. They are not hiding anything or living double lives. They are not hypocrites.

They live life joyously without any alcohol. Truly.
 
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