I didn't know he was married! Have I sinned?

[SomeSunnyDay]

I really do appreciate all the emotional support that is being offered to me here. Can’t thank you enough for welcoming me into your community and easing my worried mind somewhat. It really does help. Just over the last 24 hours since starting this thread, I can tell you that I can already feel the burden being lifted and the pain is starting to lessen.

Yes, I agree that this man is unstable, has anger and control issues, and probably needs professional help for that plus a sexual addiction problem and marriage counseling. Of course, no one can force him to do those things, and I think he’s perfectly happy with himself. He seems to be in deep denial and doesn’t think what he’s doing is a problem.

I don’t think he even sees his own hypocrisy in claiming to be a good, prayerful Catholic on the one hand, while recklessly manipulating, deceiving, and hurting people on the other. Like someone said above, he probably thinks that whenever he cheats on his wife, he can just go confess the sin and then be free to sin again! That’s some very twisted pretzel logic, but from what I know of him, that is probably what’s really going on in his mind.

It just seems to me that if he goes to Mass daily, and confession, the fact that he is a repeat offender who has not repented should be a terrible offense to God. And if he uses prayer for vain reasons without truly repenting or seeking forgiveness for his violations of God’s commandments, those prayers would be a mockery and an abomination. At least that is how I was raised in the Baptist faith. Do Catholics believe the same?

Really interested to hear the Catholic view on this, as I must admit to my own ignorance about your faith, but it seems the same Christian principles apply to all who believe in the Commandments, regardless of denomination.

I am still praying for guidance on the question of what to do now: should I wash my hands altogether and say, “well, that’s his problem. Let him and his wife work it out, it’s really none of my business anymore,” or should I tell someone? His wife or his priest?

On the one hand, I believe that if God wants his wife and children to know the truth about this man’s hurtful actions towards them, God will find a way to intervene and bring his duplicity into the light of day so they can see who he really is. Part of me wants to trust in God and let things take their natural course according to his will. I don’t feel that I have the right to intervene in other people’s personal matters unless God instructs me to do so.

But on the other hand, one of the posters above summed up my inner struggle so well with the quote about evil only flourishing when good people do nothing. So true, that’s what is wrong with our world today, and I don’t want to be one of those people who remains silent when I see evil going on right under my nose!

This is what I am fighting inside my soul right now; I have genuine concern for his wife’s feelings and especially what kind of life his kids will have. Three of his kids are boys, and I shudder to think of them growing up like their father. If he’s the role model, they may well emulate his attitudes towards women when they get older, thus perpetuating this cycle of sin endlessly.

Maybe she knows and just wants to keep the peace and the family together, I cant say because I don’t know his wife at all and can’t read her mind. So I just keep praying on that question of what to do and hope God will show me soon what He wants me to do, or if any further action on my part is required at all.

 

[estesbob]

This is what I am fighting inside my soul right now; I have genuine concern for his wife’s feelings and especially what kind of life his kids will have. Three of his kids are boys, and I shudder to think of them growing up like their father. If he’s the role model, they may well emulate his attitudes towards women when they get older, thus perpetuating this cycle of sin endlessly.

Maybe she knows and just wants to keep the peace and the family together, I cant say because I don’t know his wife at all and can’t read her mind. So I just keep praying on that question of what to do and hope God will show me soon what He wants me to do, or if any further action on my part is required at all.

First ask yourself: do you want to tell his wife more out of concern for her OR do you want to tell her as a way to get back at the man who hurt you deeply?

The man has anger and control problems. Note his extreme anger when you would let him have sex with you. Can you imagine his reaction when you insert yourself into his relationship with his wife? i dont thnk you need to go there.

I seriously doubt that the wife of a man who seems to have time to go out on dates with other women is usnaware that something is going on. Regarldess of that i think it would be a huge mistake for you to have any more involvement with him or his family.

 

[SomeSunnyDay]

And for the record, if he is stopping by the confessional on his way to another woman, with no “firm purpose of amendment” the sacrament is not happening and he is not really forgiven. In fact, he has compounded the adultery with the sin of presumption, which says I can get away with whatever because I’ll just confess it when I’m done.

Exactly, Evelyn!! You said it so well!

In this particular man’s case, he seems to not only believe that he can get away with these things because he can simply confess and be done with it at church, but he is also incredibly wealthy and powerful and runs in high political circles. So when he wants to make one of his little problems (such as a woman he’s committed adultery with) disappear, he’s got the money and power to make her go away.

Fighting him in court would be very intimidating and most likely a losing proposition to any woman (including his wife if she wanted a divorce), no matter how righteous the petitioner is. As we know, our justice system too often favors the wealthy and politically powerful, so he uses this to his advantage like a license to do whatever he wants.

 

[SomeSunnyDay]

First ask yourself: do you want to tell his wife more out of concern for her OR do you want to tell her as a way to get back at the man who hurt you deeply?

Good question! In this case, the answer is easy. I really don’t want any further contact with this man AT ALL, and I have no desire for revenge. I don’t relish the idea of talking to his wife at all, because for all I know, she might be violently jealous or as much in denial as he is. I could get seriously hurt or killed if she wanted to punish me for “tempting” her husband!

Or HE might try to hurt me after he found out that I told his wife on him! I just don’t know what he is capable of, and have good reason to be afraid of him, based on past experience.

The man has anger and control problems. Note his extreme anger when you would let him have sex with you.

 

[estesbob]

Good question! In this case, the answer is easy. I really don’t want any further contact with this man AT ALL, and I have no desire for revenge. I don’t relish the idea of talking to his wife at all, because for all I know, she might be violently jealous or as much in denial as he is. I could get seriously hurt or killed if she wanted to punish me for “tempting” her husband!

Or HE might try to hurt me after he found out that I told his wife on him! I just don’t know what he is capable of, and have good reason to be afraid of him, based on past experience.

Um, I think that’s a typo. You mean when I wouldn’t

 

[estesbob]

Good question! In this case, the answer is easy. I really don’t want any further contact with this man AT ALL, and I have no desire for revenge. I don’t relish the idea of talking to his wife at all, because for all I know, she might be violently jealous or as much in denial as he is. I could get seriously hurt or killed if she wanted to punish me for “tempting” her husband!

Or HE might try to hurt me after he found out that I told his wife on him! I just don’t know what he is capable of, and have good reason to be afraid of him, based on past experience.

 

[pegelmom]

As I think you have already ascertained from the previous posts, you haven’t sinned. But also know that you are a victim of this man. You did the right thing by calling off the relationship even before you knew he was married. Although I don’t personally know this man, I do know his profile. I worked with criminal offenders for over 5 years, and this guy fits the bill of their criminal thinking. (Not saying he actually is a criminal, just that he has their irresponsible thinking.) Here are a few examples:
He sees himself as a victim, not you: He blamed you for putting himself in that position when you invited him over for dinner.
He lied by omitting the fact that he is married.
He has no respect for rights of others.
He uses sex for power and control–obvious from his anger.
He manipulates and deceives (his niceties and Catholic faith) in order to gain power and control.
He uses anger as a weapon to control others.
He puts people down in order to build himself up.

I’m glad that you’re out of that situation now, and didn’t get hurt. I do think that everyone on this site should pray for this man and his family as well as anyone else he has victimized, since you say that you weren’t the first. I also pray that he won’t do this again to another woman!

 

[Dchsknight]

RRRRRR the more i read this post the more i want to find this man and tell him to grow a pair and love his own wife!

 

[lovemysix]

In this particular situation, I think you might be putting your own safety at risk by trying to tell the wife of this man’s behavior. Do you know what church he goes to? If you do, perhaps you could anonymously phone the priest and give him a heads up about the situation. Since it appears this man is a Cassanova, he wouldn’t be likely to know WHICH of his prey had notified his priest The priest could then decide how it should be handled.

Chances are, she knows. And has probably known for 15 years or so. She could be afraid of him. His anger over you calling her to notify her could actually endanger her or her children. He sounds unstable, and you don’t want to put his family at risk just so that you can unburden your own conscience.

As to his outward signs of piety…I’m sorry to say it, but some of the most unchristian people I know attend daily mass and say daily rosaries. Outward demonstrations of piety don’t necessarily say anything about a person’s interior state. On the other hand, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was just totally lying to you about all of it.

I’m glad you are feeling a bit better. I agree with repeating the mantra that you did NOTHING wrong. A cad is a cad is a cad, and the fault lies entirely with hiim!

Lauren

 

[SomeSunnyDay]

Pegelmom, I think you characterized him perfectly, even though you don’t know him, it sure sounds like you know the type!

I too have some experience working with criminal offenders, as well as the powerful political elites (it’s getting harder to tell the two apart these days! lol) I’m a journalist by profession, so my work necessitates interaction/interviews with both sides of that coin, and it’s always amazed me how similar the thought process and personality types can actually be.

I’ve interviewed Governors who think and act like the armed robbers and white collar criminals behind bars, so I guess that background helped me see through this man’s carefully-crafted facade and anger/control issues early on in the dating process. Thank God for that…I can only imagine how betrayed and hurt I would have felt if I had been in the dark for 6 months (or perhaps like his wife, for 15 years) before discovering his true colors!

You also said that everyone on this board should pray for him, and I actually think that is a wonderful idea!!!

Although he is not my favorite person right now, to say the least, I do pray for God to intervene in his life and help him see the error of his ways. Or, if he’s just too blind or selfish to see, it may take a more drastic intervention or revelation to shock him into correct behavior, but I still pray that it happens for the sake of the innocent people who are being hurt by his actions; his wife, kids, immediate family, friends, the other women he’s done this to, etc…

 

[SomeSunnyDay]

In one of my longer posts earlier I think this question of mine may have gotten lost among other issues I raised, but am hoping someone can shed some light on this question for me, as it is still something I’m unclear on:

"If he uses prayer for vain reasons without truly repenting or seeking forgiveness for his violations of God’s commandments, would those prayers be a mockery and an abomination?

That is what I was raised to believe in the Baptist faith. Do Catholics believe the same?

Really interested to hear the Catholic view on this, as I must admit to my own ignorance about your faith, but it seems the same Christian principles apply to all who believe in the Commandments, regardless of denomination."

I also asked my Mom about this question today (she is Baptist), and she said I should have laughed out loud in his face when he said he would pray for me!)

She thought that was just hilarious…and quite galling, too. But as you can imagine, she’s my Mom and isn’t exactly objective about this subject. Any man who insults her daughter really gets her Irish up!

So hoping someone here can offer a more objective and Catholic point of view on this question of false prayers being an abomination and/or a mockery. Does the scripture diffferentiate between what is a mockery and what is an abomination, or are they the same thing? And would his prayer be considered as such? Would God even listen to him when he prays?

 

[EvelynEVF]

I think we would agree that his prayers are a mockery, though I have no official church quote on that. Jesus told us that God doesn’t want our sacrifices when we have something against a brother, and I think that applies here, as well as the minor prophets who lament about people who are so careful to observe feasts and fasts and all the outward signs while ignoring the poor and needy among them. God is not pleased with hypocrites.

However, I think you’ll find Catholics more concerned with the fact that he is misusing the confessional, and committing a sacrilege so great it can’t be exaggerated–knowingly receiving the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin. Scriptures tell is that in the apostles’ time there were people who actually DIED for doing this. He is pretty much shredding his soul, and that’s really scary.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

I think we are with you on this one. Prayers that are vain, empty, and without repentance offend God. However, sincere repetious prayers are pleasing.

It is not up to me to judge someone. I would say forgive this guy and move on. I guess your story really points out the need to know who you are dating.

Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, “do not heap up empty phrases” in prayer.
Matt. 26:44 - Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.
Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.
Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.
Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.
1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.
Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God. Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.
MOstly taken from:scripturecatholic.com/vain_and_repetitious_prayer.html

 

[Tarek_Chidiac]

Hi SomeSunnyDay …
I have just finished reading all posts in your thread. I felt so sorry about what happened with you.
No doubt that this man has committed a sin, a grave one. He, obviously, has committed an adultery.
No doubt also, that he dosen’t represent all catholic men, so I beg you not to judge all by the sin of one. God, Himself doesn’t.
In the other hand, let us, dear SomeSunnyDay be quite frank …
You ask if you should tell his wife about her husband act with you. let me ask you what for?
Don’t you think that after 15 years of marriage his wife should know everything about him? Do you really think that his wife is “blind”? so … what for?
Perhaps she requested divorce, who knows? (By the way in our church there is no an absolute divorce, may be just a separation of mutual life)
let me also be more frank …
you have known this man 2 months ago. he seemed to be a good catholic man. He apologise after the “accident”, he went out when you have asked him to do, he apologised the day after, and after he called you to say that he prayed for you. It seemed that he is not a very very bad man or he is a very very good actor.
Am I telling you that you are wrong in some way? …
Not at all … I repeat, no doubt that this man has committed a grave sin, but I do not judge him. Nor I judge you, in inviting a guy over alone that you don’t really know. Only God knows what is in our minds.
So … what you should do now, I believe, is to pray:

• Pray for him so he will repents and receives god’ forgiveness.
• Pray for his wife and children, for his family to be fiirm in the eyes of God, that “What God has joined together, let man not separate”.
• and Pray for yourself to forget and forgive.
  Warmly Tarek

 

[GraceDK]

I’d advise you to start a new thread, as this topic will quickly derail this one.

Short answer, my husband and I discussed this long ago. Any sin we commit is between that person and God. Should one of us sin, we will go to confession and obey the advice of our confessor. If given the choice in the matter, no, I do not want to know. Neither does he.

Yeah?
well me and millions of other women and men believe there are things we have a right to know.
I think you are in the minority.
I would wanna know and I can never understand people who just stand by watching while somebody gets cheaten so badly by some unrepentant player.
Especially if the people in question are married and the cheater does not show any sign of remorse.

You might have some idea that you can live in ignorant blizz while your husband is having sex with another lady or tries to but that idea is yours alone and privately. You cannot expect others to have the same and live their life on a lie.

You may wrong someone terribly and go to confession… in most cases I think both God and man finds it most healthy for the sinner to ALSO ask forgiveness from the person(s) here on earth whose life and trust he has violated.

By the way… I am not derailing the tread.
The OP asks for advice.
I say: Get it off your chest by doing the right thing which is letting the wife know what is going on.

 

[Eucharisted]

Hello, I am new here and this is my first post. I’ve been reading the forums for a while and have learned so much, but haven’t yet found a thread that addresses my specific situation, so I will post my story here and hope someone can share some Catholic insights.

First, I should say that I am a non-Catholic and a single female. I recently met a Catholic man and we started dating. He was charming, handsome and seemingly very devout in his faith. He often spoke of his faith, how he attends mass daily; and when I was having a family crisis he prayed the rosary for me on several occasions. I began to care for him so much that I started seriously considering converting to the Catholic faith.

One night we were at my house watching a movie together and he wanted to engage in some more physical intimacy. Kissing, hugging, embracing was fine with me, it was very nice, but we had only been on a few dates so I didn’t feel comfortable going any further than that, so when he tried to touch me under my clothes, I politely declined and asked him to stop.

Well, at that point my Prince Charming suddenly turned very insulting and rude - just a total turn-around in his behaviour, a side of him I’d never seen before. He tried to draw me into a verbal argument by insulting my intelligence and my honor, saying that by inviting him over for dinner and a movie at my house (I had cooked a nice meal for us), I was somehow “inviting him” to have sex? Then he said that by letting him kiss and hold me, then refusing to go any further, I was “teasing him.” I mean, he was really upset!

I asked him to please leave and he did, but called me 20 minutes later to apologize for saying such mean things acting like a demanding, unreasonable jerk. I said I forgave him, and even apologized to him if I had somehow given him ANY impression by inviting him over for dinner and a movie that I was implying anything more was going to happen. I’m not sure if I should have apologized, I had no such ideas in mind and didn’t feel that I needed to apologize after the way he spoke to me, but I did anyway just to keep the peace.

The next day, he called me again to apologize a second time, saying he still felt really bad. I told him that I appreciated the gesture, but had thought about it overnight and decided that I didn’t think we should date anymore. Said my reason was because I felt he was wanting to take things faster than I was ready to go physically. I offered him my friendship and said it would be best if we just left it at that.

Well, a couple weeks later, I was talking to a mutual friend who knows this man (they work at the same place) and she told me he is MARRIED with CHILDREN!!!

My jaw dropped, my heart sunk, and I felt so foolish for ever being interested in this man. He had presented himself to me the whole time as though he were single - never any mention of kids or prior/current marriages the whole time we dated, which was about 2 months! That’s enough time to get to know someone (or so one might think), but I guess he was a really talented actor; he sure had me fooled!

So here is my question: because I don’t understand the Catholic faith very well, did this man commit a grave sin in what he did with me? What sins did he commit, and how does the church and the scriptures address these sins? How can he atone for them? If his wife knows of this behavior (I’m now hearing from my friend that he’s quite the Don Juan and I wasn’t the first girl he’s tried this with), should she divorce him or stay with a serial philanderer for the sake of their kids and because the church says she has to? Does the Catholic faith command women to remain married to serial cheaters?

In the eyes of your faith, did I commit a sin by dating him for awhile, even though I had NO IDEA he was married with children?

I’m still hurting from this situation, and for some reason I feel guilty, although I can’t figure out why I do. I trusted him, began to let him into my heart, thought he was a moral and good person, and was ignorant of his marital status until weeks after I had already stopped seeing him.

I just can’t believe I was so deceived by a man who represented himself to me as such a “good Catholic”. I can’t believe he managed to pull this off, somehow managing to slip away from his family to go on dates with me in the evenings, never giving the slightest hint that he was spoken for. In retrospect, the only red flag I can see now is that he never invited me over to his house.

Please help, sorry this was long but I wanted to tell the whole story. I’m trying my best to recover and put it behind me so I can start dating again, learn to open my heart and trust again, and not take away from this bad experience a distrust of men.

Thank you for listening and any advice you can help with!

You didn’t sin. Be at peace.

 

[SomeSunnyDay]

I was just thinking: if I had truly “washed my hands” of the situation already, I wouldn’t still be wondering if I have an obligation to help this man stop sinning, would I?

I would have just forgotten the whole thing, erased it from my memory, and I wouldn’t be here looking for advice.

I wouldn’t include him and his family in my prayers. I would not be asking God for guidance about what I should do.

So I’m starting to think there is a reason why this question still nags me, and that reason is probably my concern for his wife and children, and the women he will target in the future.

I can clearly see that there is NO BENEFIT FOR ME personally by telling his wife or his priest on him. Actually, it may be a huge risk to so so, one that could put me in danger physically.

Therefore, why do it, if I could potentially get hurt even worse than I’ve already been?

On the other hand, something in my conscience keeps telling me I should say or do something about it. But what?

What is the best way to handle this problem without putting myself in unnecessary danger of retaliation or harm?

Some good ideas have been offered up already: such as an anonymous phone call or email to his priest. If there is a way to do that while truly remaining anonymous (in this digital age w/ caller ID, IP lookups, etc.), it is increasingly difficult to truly remain anonymous when making a complaint, especially against powerful well-connected people who have the ability to track down the complainant and find out their identity.

Another thought I had was writing an anonymous letter to his wife. Again, I have concerns about how to keep it truly anonymous (might have to mail it from another city/postmark, and take other steps to carefully protect my identity), as email and phone calls would be too easy to trace back to me if retaliation against me was foremost on their minds.

By the way, I want to thank the posters above who offered insights and info on how the Catholic church views prayers of unrepentant mortal sinners being a mockery and an abomination. Any further thoughts on this would be very much appreciated.

 

[estesbob]

What is the best way to handle this problem without putting myself in unnecessary danger of retaliation or harm?

.

As I said before pray for him and let it go.

 

[SomeSunnyDay]

Believe me, estesbob, I have tried, and am still trying. I’d love it if this whole thing would just go AWAY and leave my thoughts forever!!!

But you know what they say about that “nagging little voice” inside you…?

I’d be delighted to forget it and let this go. No one likes to be reminded of an embarassing situation, and I am definitely embarassed for dating a married man, even if I didn’t know he was married at the time.

(Gotta love those married guys who don’t wear a ring! I always thought wedding rings were not just for the ceremonial exchange, but also to tell members of the opposite sex, “don’t approach me, I’m taken!”)

 

[Tarek_Chidiac]

Believe me, estesbob, I have tried, and am still trying. I’d love it if this whole thing would just go AWAY and leave my thoughts forever!!!

But you know what they say about that “nagging little voice” inside you…?

I’d be delighted to forget it and let this go. No one likes to be reminded of an embarassing situation, and I am definitely embarassed for dating a married man, even if I didn’t know he was married at the time.

(Gotta love those married guys who don’t wear a ring! I always thought wedding rings were not just for the ceremonial exchange, but also to tell members of the opposite sex, “don’t approach me, I’m taken!”)

you seemed like you judge yourself.
Put your burden in Jesus’ shoulders