I didn't know he was married! Have I sinned?

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Certainly true; this is how our western society by and large views marriage today; as a partnership with the woman as an equal.

However, in many countries of the world, even some Christian cultures today, wives are still viewed as a man’s property, and this belief, however misunderstood or frowned upon by us modern womenfolk today, is actually a strict interpretation of ancient law.

I discussed this perplexing question tonight over dinner with a friend of mine who is a Jewish Biblical scholar, and this is how she explained it to me. Quite fascinating, actually!

In Biblical times, the Jews understood “Thou shalt not commit adultery” very differently than we do today. Adultery was the sin of “trespassing” on a man’s *property *(thus, the distinction in the Commandments between “thou shalt not commit adultery” and “coveting thy neighbor’s wife”.) Until marriage women were the property of their fathers. After marriage they became the property of their husband.

Therefore, if a man had sex with an unmarried female (most likely still living under her father’s roof, as most unmarried women did), it was adultery and he had violated the 7th Commandment. If he had sex with another man’s wife, it was certainly adulterous. Additionally, he would be violating the 10th Commandment if he tried to steal her away from her husband/owner. (In cases of prostitutes, however, this was not considered adultery, since these women were regarded as no one’s property; they were often orphans who did not have fathers or owners. Interesting stuff, eh?)

Most marriages were arranged between the fathers of the boy and girl. In other cases if a man wanted a woman, he knocked on her father’s tent, offered the marriage price, and took a wife. The girl had little say in the matter. If he liked the girl he might return with more money to marry some of her sisters! Women *were *considered property. Adultery was a violation of the husbands’ property rights, not morality, and polygyny was the standard.

However, Jesus taught that women should be equal, but didn’t address the reason other than to be equal rather than a possession. It is generally believed that Jesus’ teaching (considered revolutionary at the time!) emphasized a more loving relationship between man and wife. The Sermon on the Mount is a wonderful example of Jesus reversing legalistic laws in favor of love.

Luckily, society has evolved much over the past 2000 years, especially our attitudes on the equality of women and our interpretation that marriage should be an equal partnership.
Obviously, today there is no longer polygamy, and men as well as women who have relations outside of marriage are nowadays considered adulterers.

Adultery, more fully understood Biblically, is the willful and harmful violation (adulteration) of the primary, the permanence, and the honesty of the marriage.

Christ’s teachings of love and the golden rule support today’s loving, respecting, monogamous marriages, and were way ahead of their time in many ways! The only real difference is that women now have the same rights within a marriage that men had in the time of Christ.

Cheating adultery is clearly wrong since it involves lying and deception, practices Christ said were forbidden then and which still holds true in our society today.
 
You might want to look at some other Jewish scholars, your friend is of one idea set. There are others who show that the Jews of “Bible Times” were one of the few ancient peoples where women owned property and ran businesses, they were not the “property” that some teach they were.

That, however, is a way different thread.
 
Notice the location of the person posting the question - he is not likely to be a well-educated Catholic. (Notice also that no one has responded to him, yet.)
I’m feeling offended by your words. What do you have against my location? Why are you making conclusions about my education, based on my country?
And, I’m a female, just by the way!

I know what the church teaches about this sin; my question was directed to english speakers for better understanding of the term - because my friend was playing language games. Our original discussion was in russian and we started to consult other translations of the Bible for better understanding.
Your interpretation of the commandments agrees with mine entirely - that ANY lustful thoughts/actions of a married person towards another who is not their spouse (regardless of whether or not the object of the lust is married or not) is adultery.
Yes, this is perfectly clear. This man you spoke about in your post, committed adultery; you haven’t.

My question in my thread was about possibility to apply “thou shall not commit adultery” to unmarried persons. For my friends tries to prove that sex/lust between unmarried people is not adultery and so not a mortal sin.
 
Well, between unmarried people it isn’t adultery, but it is fornication, and that’s still mortal sin. You’re right that your friend was playing word games :confused:

And to that my answer is, would it be okay with you if your future spouse had sexual contact with whomever s/he wanted? Is it okay because s/he isn’t married to you yet?

Some people will still say that it is hypothetically okay, but that they really, really don’t like it, because they realize how much it can damage the relationship.
 
Evelen, that’s my understanding of it. It’s not adultery unless either the man or woman (or both) in question are married.

If they are both single & having premarital sex, it’s fornication. (Even if you’re planning to get married, as in Inity’s case)

Kage, I should have mentioned your point in my original post. It is fascinating that Jewish law back then afforded more rights to women than Roman law. Although women were generally expected not to work or be educated, and were still looked upon as the property of their husbands and fathers,there were exceptions.

In situations of widowhood, the widow would inherit her husband’s property rights, including his businesses and continue to run them. Same situation with unmarried daughters, who may eventually wind up taking on the family farm or shop after the death of both parents. In cases such as these, whatever rights the women had were a result of inheritance from a man, either her father or husband.

Anyway, I know this kind of derails the original discussion somewhat, but it is fascinating to compare the ways “adultery” has often been loosely defined through the centuries. As pertaining to my situation (the subject of this thread), even the ancient interpretation of “adultery” clearly fits what this man did. He is married, and since I am unmarried (thus technically stilll the “property” of my father), it would have been considered a violation of God’s law thousands of years ago, as well as it is today.
 
If they are both single & having premarital sex, it’s fornication. (Even if you’re planning to get married, as in Inity’s case)
Just to make things clear, this is not the “case”, just a question, mostly theoretical - we’re having discussion with a friend, but we’re not going to get married! (and not going to have sex, too =)
 
I may be able to add some insight here. The man and the experience that you have described could be my husband. We have been married almost 25 years. I had no clue what was going on until about the 10th year of our marriage when I overheard his side of a phone conversation with another woman. It was such a shock that it put me into early labor.

My husband is a diagnosed sex addict. His picture is all over the internet on dating sites. He goes to Holy Mass EVERY morning, goes to confession at least once a week, goes on retreats, and prays the family rosary every night with us. Yes, it is possible for a man to do all of these things and still do horrible things. Our priests know and he is getting counseling. Somehow he manages to compartmentalize this behavior and lead a horrible double life.

I would encourage you to meet face to face with his wife and have the courage to tell her exactly what happened. Tell her you had no idea that he was married and tell her that out of concern for his soul and her safety that you felt obligated to let her know what happened even though you were sick at the thought of doing so. I wish someone would have had the courage to let me know earlier so that we could have received help sooner.

She may have suspected something was going on for years, but until someone has the guts to let her know exact details she really does not have proof of the reality of her situation and she has no way of trying to help him with his problem.

In my situation I believe that I could possibly obtain an annulment because my husband was unfaithful within a month of our marriage (I could be wrong about this because I have never asked about an annulment with a priest) but I choose to try to help him save his soul. After all, what is an annulment going to do for me. I can’t and would not remarry because I have STD’s and I have cervical cancer from HPV. We also have children that love him. By the grace of God, the children have not been negatively affected. They would be devastated if they knew. If we would divorce I’m sure that his soul would be lost. Maybe he has a chance if I love him and try to help him persevere. The world calls this being a co-dependent. I call it making the sacrifice of my live for another.

To love and not be loved. I guess this is what Christ felt like when he died for our sins. Pray for me.
 
FIAT MIHI, thank you for sharing your painful life experience with me here. Although it helps me understand the mindset of the man I’ve been dealing with, I know it can’t be easy for you to talk about, and I am so sorry for all the heartache and sorrow your husband has caused you because of his sexual addiction.

Yes, by what you described in your post, it sounds like your husband and the man I dated could be one and the same person. (Thankfully, I don’t live anywhere near Idaho, so I think we can feel assured it’s not the same guy!) But these two sound like they have the same problem and deal with it in the same way: by NOT dealing with it, living in denial and leading a double life.

Can such a heavily addicted person be reformed, or better yet, saved? Yes, I believe that they can, but it will not happen until they are ready to fall on their knees before God and with a clean heart, renounce their old ways, begging for God’s mercy and forgiveness. They must also ask the forgiveness from those their actions have harmed - and they need to MEAN IT.

It’s one thing to go to confession once a week or every so often and say “I messed up. Whoops, I’m sorry.” But if you walk out of that booth and continue to repeat the same mistakes/sins over and over, you haven’t learned or corrected anything. For as we discussed earlier in this thread, empty prayers and half-hearted apologies or confessions are a mockery. The Bible says God considers such prayers an abomination.

I’ve been doing a bit of Bible research on this burning question since it happened to me, trying to discover how “adultery” is defined in scripture, and if he or I had committed this sin.

Here’s a little more of what I found, for those who might be in similar situations, here are a few passages for easy reference in your Bible. Adultery is defined as:
  1. A sexual act committed outside of a marriage relationship and against the marriage (John 8:4). (note: the act does not have to involve sex itself, but rather, sexual intent - such as “lusting in one’s heart”)
  2. The act of “putting away” and marrying another (Matthew 19:9).
  3. A sin against one’s spouse, which is contrary to the marital vows (Mark 10:11).
    (The sin against the bond of exclusiveness in your monogamous relationship agreement.)
  4. Within the scope of marriage - the display of improper affection for another (Jeremiah 3:9).
  5. Ignoring the bond and considering oneself unmarried (1 Corinthians 7:15).
While the man in my case obviously did all of the above except #2 (he sure didn’t propose marriage to me! lol), the one that galls me most to read again is #5. He ignored his marital bond and displayed himself as “single” to me!!!

How was I to know? He didn’t wear a ring, never spoke of his children or any other past or present spouses! I had no cause to doubt him early on, just took him at his word. Luckily, other red flags in his behavior towards me caused me to terminate the relationship BEFORE I even found out his true marital status!

So now I think I’ve resolved the spiritual question to my own satisfaction that by dating him for 2 months, I did not commit adultery. That’s a HUGE load of my mind and heart, let me tell you!!! Now the only spiritual question that remains is whether or not I should tell someone close to him, like his wife or priest. I’ve already told my family and friends, but that doesn’t address his problem at all.

Am getting loads of conflicting advice on that question, in this thread and in real life. Opinions are strongly divided and both sides raise excellent points. I’m considering it all ways; trying to put myself in the shoes of his wife, his kids, his priest, and him as well. Given his tendency towards using anger and abusive language in bad situations, I also have to consider my safety too, first and foremost.

And so I just keep praying and listening to all points of view before making my decision. To tell or to just let it go? That is the toughest question of all for me now.
 
Thank you, Matariel. That is good to learn. I rather assumed that confession is not like an automatic “get out of jail free” card for those who are not truly sorry for the things they’ve done. If they continue to repeat those sins, it seems a total waste of time to even go to confession if the person is not sincere.

Makes me wonder how many years he’s been going to the same church, and if he always confesses to the same priest. I can almost see the look on the priest’s face when this guy walks into the booth, like, “oh boy, here we go again!”🙂
We are all “repeat offenders” but the only time wasted in going to Confession (which is a Sacrament) is if one is not truly repentant of the sins one is confessing and/or if one deliberately omits confessing sins which one knows to be sins for whatever reason (eg embarassment).

Are you sure you have your facts right about this guy? We unfortunately do not have his side of the story about that fateful night. you have said you dated for “2 months” but this really comprised of only a “few dates”. How much is a few? How many times did you date him before you felt it was safe to invite him into your home? Are you really as innocent as you make yourself out to be? It depends on your age.

If I was a guy and I had been dating someone for 2 months with little or no sexual intimacy and to be invited to a dinner for 2 at your hoime no less could I not be forgiven if I thought that maybe I could get lucky tonight and that you were having the same thoughts? After all you set the scene I am not saying the way he reacted to your “NO” is anyway justified but allowing a man to “kiss and cuddle” you wasnt the smartest thing to do if sex was not what you had in mind. Men arent mind readers. Being naive however is not a sin.
 
We are all “repeat offenders” but the only time wasted in going to Confession (which is a Sacrament) is if one is not truly repentant of the sins one is confessing and/or if one deliberately omits confessing sins which one knows to be sins for whatever reason (eg embarassment).

Are you sure you have your facts right about this guy? We unfortunately do not have his side of the story about that fateful night. you have said you dated for “2 months” but this really comprised of only a “few dates”. How much is a few? How many times did you date him before you felt it was safe to invite him into your home? Are you really as innocent as you make yourself out to be? It depends on your age.

If I was a guy and I had been dating someone for 2 months with little or no sexual intimacy and to be invited to a dinner for 2 at your hoime no less could I not be forgiven if I thought that maybe I could get lucky tonight and that you were having the same thoughts? After all you set the scene I am not saying the way he reacted to your “NO” is anyway justified but allowing a man to “kiss and cuddle” you wasnt the smartest thing to do if sex was not what you had in mind. Men arent mind readers. Being naive however is not a sin.
Well said.
Reasonnable questions need answers.
 
The answers to your questions are:
  • We dated over a period of 2 months, but had only been out 4-5 times. Due to our hectic work schedules and because he wasn’t available that often (come to find out later, the reason for his unavailability in the evenings was because he had a wife and kids!), we had only a few actual “dates.”
Most of our contact was by phone, email or text (which I always thought a little odd at the time, but after finding out his marital status, now I see he did that to avoid detection of his affairs).

The few dates we did have were always in public places – going out to dinner, movies, to the park, etc…so we were not alone together until the 5th date, which turned out to be our last.

Perhaps I was foolish to ask him over to my home for dinner and a movie, but after two months, I felt safe with him and felt it was time for us to finally have some alone time together. That did not mean, however, that I was inviting him over to have sex! To my mind, it was simply escalating intimacy in the relationship to the next level - cuddling up on the couch and watching a movie together is always a good place to go next. But I like to take things slowly in relationships and was not looking to go from first base to home plate in a single evening!

That, to my mind, is not how healthy relationships develop. And considering all his talk about being such a devoted Catholic, I naturally assumed that like most good Catholic men, he did not believe in pre-marital sex, so having him over for a meal and a movie seemed like a safe bet at the time.

Obviously, I found out differently. Not only did my good Catholic friend believe in pre-marital sex, extramarital sex was not a problem for him, either. :mad:
 
He is the one at fault, because he was not honest with you from the start. He also sounds like a dangerous wacko, so unless you are prepared to move should you tell his wife, you had better drop all communication with this man.

Speaking as a betrayed spouse, I would want to know. But **not **if it puts a person like you (innocent of his marital status) in danger. It sounds like this man is capable of doing hurt to you because he is already emotionally abusive. He is blameshifting, because he does not want to face himself and his own dishonesty.

My advice would be to stop taking any calls from him, to stop all communication. He will likely move onto a new victim, but since you can’t warn that person in advance, there is no point pursuing this any further.
 
We are all “repeat offenders” but the only time wasted in going to Confession (which is a Sacrament) is if one is not truly repentant of the sins one is confessing and/or if one deliberately omits confessing sins which one knows to be sins for whatever reason (eg embarassment).

Are you sure you have your facts right about this guy? We unfortunately do not have his side of the story about that fateful night. you have said you dated for “2 months” but this really comprised of only a “few dates”. How much is a few? How many times did you date him before you felt it was safe to invite him into your home? Are you really as innocent as you make yourself out to be? It depends on your age.

If I was a guy and I had been dating someone for 2 months with little or no sexual intimacy and to be invited to a dinner for 2 at your hoime no less could I not be forgiven if I thought that maybe I could get lucky tonight and that you were having the same thoughts? After all you set the scene I am not saying the way he reacted to your “NO” is anyway justified but allowing a man to “kiss and cuddle” you wasnt the smartest thing to do if sex was not what you had in mind. Men arent mind readers. Being naive however is not a sin.
Wow, the fact is that the man IS MARRIED, AND SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DATING ANYONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Wouldn’t it be nice if we were all mind readers and could see another person’s character right off the bat. I’ll have to be careful who I invite to my home, be they male or female. You never know if someone might be homosexual, don’t forget!
 
The answers to your questions are:
  • We dated over a period of 2 months, but had only been out 4-5 times. Due to our hectic work schedules and because he wasn’t available that often (come to find out later, the reason for his unavailability in the evenings was because he had a wife and kids!), we had only a few actual “dates.”
Most of our contact was by phone, email or text (which I always thought a little odd at the time, but after finding out his marital status, now I see he did that to avoid detection of his affairs).

The few dates we did have were always in public places – going out to dinner, movies, to the park, etc…so we were not alone together until the 5th date, which turned out to be our last.

Sunny, I read your thread right thru before I felt the need to respond. Forgive me if my questions were hurtful it was not my intention to put you on the defensive. I did not mean for you to answer those questions for me but for yourself but neglected to say it in my post.

Perhaps I was foolish to ask him over to my home for dinner and a movie, but after two months, I felt safe with him and felt it was time for us to finally have some alone time together. That did not mean, however, that I was inviting him over to have sex! To my mind, it was simply escalating intimacy in the relationship to the next level - cuddling up on the couch and watching a movie together is always a good place to go next. But I like to take things slowly in relationships and was not looking to go from first base to home plate in a single evening!

**Most people are vilifying this person actions but we only have your interpretion of what your relationship was like. You come across as a single, independent woman but young and naive in my view yet you are very articulate and meticulous in the details in your assessment of his behaviour and his character which belies the fact that you arent as young as I think you are to be so innocent

I want to believe you are genuine and naive but it does sound a bit contrived to me…no offence just need to say it how I see it.**

That, to my mind, is not how healthy relationships develop. And considering all his talk about being such a devoted Catholic, I naturally assumed that like most good Catholic men, he did not believe in pre-marital sex, so having him over for a meal and a movie seemed like a safe bet at the time.

Sunny, even “devoted Catholics” fall occassionally. Catholics certainly do not believe in sex before marriage but many times they fall and do not practise what they believe…we are all sinners on different journeys but on the same road.

Obviously, I found out differently. Not only did my good Catholic friend believe in pre-marital sex, extramarital sex was not a problem for him, either. :mad:

**So Im gonna assume you are still a virgin being that you are a good Christian girl 👍

From one girl to another my advice is to let this go. Forgive and learn from it. But you seem to want to prolong this “relationship” by trying to analyze his audacity to hurt you this way. I am sorry for your pain but the pain you can cause by meddling in his affairs could be more devasting to his family than to him. It is not you duty to tell his wife. Like you said you do not know her nor how she would react or he for that matter. You are going to do as you see fit of course but even the purest of intents you will be hurting others by speaking out. His marriage is not your business,

You are certainly still hurting and though you may deny it probably still very angry with him and would like for him to know how much you feel betrayed. Although you had only been on a few dates it was enough for you to consider looking at changing to his faith because you thought he was such a decent guy 🤷 You said you texted him and when he rung you you wouldnt answer the phone yet it was you that instigated the connection Dont be playing silly female games ok!!

Do remember he is guilty of adultery…not murder. And his betrayal of his wife is vastly more atrocious than his betrayal of you. She should have some who knows and loves her tell her if she doesnt know already not some stranger her husband was temporarily attracted to. Please dont take what I have said personally. Peace and God bless.**
 
You come across as a single, independent woman but young and naive in my view yet you are very articulate and meticulous in the details in your assessment of his behaviour and his character which belies the fact that you arent as young as I think you are to be so innocent
I want to believe you are genuine and naive but it does sound a bit contrived to me…no offence just need to say it how I see it.
**I think that any reasonable person would find your comments making presumptions about my virtue (or lack thereof) as offensive.

A woman does not have to be young to believe (perhaps naively) that a grown man can be trusted to refrain from unwanted sexual activity when he is alone with her.

Under civil law in most states, unwanted sexual touching is called SEXUAL ASSAULT and/or SEXUAL BATTERY. I made it clear that the touching was unwanted and asked him to leave. What else was I supposed to do? Call the cops on him?**
You said you texted him and when he rung you you wouldnt answer the phone yet it was you that instigated the connection Dont be playing silly female games ok!!
**My text to him was very clear: DO NOT CONTACT ME AGAIN.
If he chose to pick up the phone, ignoring my stated wishes for no contact, and contact me again, that is not my problem. Of course I’m not going to answer his call!

That’s not “playing silly female games.” That is setting a clear boundary and sticking to it. I made it plain that I wished for no further contact. Period.

I conveyed this is a text message to leave a paper trail since texts are a written record and are stored on servers. Should he turn stalker-ish, I will be able to prove that I told him plainly and in writing not to contact me again. My phone records will also show that I have since blocked his number. Any further attempts on his part to contact me will be considered harassment and reported to the authorities.

I don’t know how I could possibly be any clearer than that. **
 
Wow, the fact is that the man IS MARRIED, AND SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DATING ANYONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Wouldn’t it be nice if we were all mind readers and could see another person’s character right off the bat. I’ll have to be careful who I invite to my home, be they male or female. You never know if someone might be homosexual, don’t forget!
Hello there , obviously he shouldnt be dating if he is married…your point is? The relationship was for TWO MONTHS in which time she did a lot of assuming and dreaming rather than asking the right questions to get to know him. Was he aware that she felt so strongly against pre-marital sex? I doubt it very much or he may not have reacted as badly as he did. No one is giving this guy the benefit of doubt.

I think many males can relate to this situation and have made the same grave mistake…believed that the girl is willing but was deliberately being a tease by letting it get so far. Men are human they can get angry at times for the most selfish reasons as we woman do too. His reaction was inexcusable but understandable if he felt she was being a tease. He wasnt a happy chappy to be told “NO” but he did not try to force it on her. Sunny did not know he was married till 2weeks later. That wasnt why she dumped him but now she is making it an issue. She should get over it and move on. If think it would be better all round that she prays about this and leave it to God.

Im sorry Im too sleepy to think straight right now but Im trying to see it from the guys perspective. Peace and goodnight 🙂
 
I think many males can relate to this situation and have made the same grave mistake…believed that the girl is willing but was deliberately being a tease by letting it get so far.
And what, exactly, does the woman “owe him” by going on a few dates, or inviting him over for a home-cooked meal?

(Hey, I just saved him some money - he paid for the first four dinner dates!)

So I think that’s a fair trade. For him to assume that not only am I going to cook for him AND have sex with him upon the occasion of his first visit to my humble abode, is dreaming

I’m his date, not his wife! (Turns out, he already has one!)
 
Not only did my** good Catholic **friend believe in pre-marital sex, extramarital sex was not a problem for him, either. :mad:
He was not a GOOD Catholic. :nope:

Reading some of these responses makes me glad I’m not single if a home cooked meal = sex in some men’s minds.

Gads!
 
Reading some of these responses makes me glad I’m not single if a home cooked meal = sex in some men’s minds.
It’s a jungle out here these days! The culture expects single women to be like the girls in “Sex and the City!” (lol) People watch way too much TV, I guess…
 
He was not a GOOD Catholic. :nope:

Reading some of these responses makes me glad I’m not single if a home cooked meal = sex in some men’s minds.

Gads!
Yeah, I know. Same here. Things were bad enough 25 years ago. It seems that things have gotten a lot worse out there. I feel sorry for single women today, what they have to put up with.

imasinner:
So Im gonna assume you are still a virgin being that you are a good Christian girl. 👍
Would it be okay by you for her to be assaulted against her will in her own home, if she were not? :mad:
 
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