I didn't realize something when I consecrated myself to Mary

[Tis_Bearself]

Yes, like that. Then she and Jesus go over the notes together.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Marian consecration is not obligatory and there is no movement to make it obligatory

I was referring to the petition for Mary co-redemptrix as a declared dogma. I think the pope called it “foolishness”

U seem to have missed my point.
“For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR between God and mankind, the man CHRIST JESUS , who gave himself as a ransom for all people.” 1Timothy 2: 5-6 (NIV)

Why are passages like this being contradicted?
Or why do you choose to ignore these kind of passages?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I was referring to the petition for Mary co-redemptrix as a declared dogma. I think the pope called it “nonsense”

Off topic for this thread. We have another thread discussing Co-Redemptrix theory and it has not been mentioned here. Please discuss the Co-redemptrix theory on the appropriate thread for it.

Regarding Mary as Mediatrix, that is different from Co-Redemptrix. Mary as Mediatrix is already established Church teaching for a long time, as shown by the Catechism, CCC 969:

969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

This section of the Catechism references Lumen gentium, section 62, which uses the same language.

Mary as Mediatrix is not a subject for debate. The Church has settled that issue. Our Pope is not going to be calling Lumen gentium, the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church from Vatican II, “foolishness”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

No one is contradicting or ignoring Scripture here. It’s been repeatedly explained to you that the basis for Mary as our Mediatrix is Scriptural.

A simple question for you: Why are you continuing to argue this point when at least a half dozen posters have explained to you that you are both in error/ at odds with Catholic teaching, and also veering off-topic for the thread?

 

[TK421]

A simple question which no one wants to answer.
Why do people willingly contradict or ignore scripture?

Brother,

Okay, this will post will be a bit long.

You are using the passage in a way as though it were mutually exclusive from prayers to the saints (and to Mary) and it is not. This is why prooftexting isolated verses of scripture leads to endless confusion, endless conflicting interpretations, and endless distinct Christian denominations into the thousands and tens of thousands. Jesus Christ is our mediator because his Passion & Death is the expiation of our sins. Paul quite literally explains this in the next verse, which you chose to not quote for reasons that are unclear to me. I will assume it was an innocent mistake.

Jesus Christ as mediator is not mutually exclusive with the divine command to make intercessions, supplications, and petitions. Nor is it even a concept that began with Christianity. Pious Jews were already making prayers to the dead before the time of Christ, such as in Maccabees.

Continued…

 

[TK421]

• Jesus commands us to “pray for those who abuse you” (Luke 6:28; cf. Matt 5:44).

• Jesus says that some demons can only be driven out by prayer (Mark 9:23), which most likely involves the idea of praying for the one possessed.

• The apostles pray for Stephen and the other newly appointed seven deacons (Acts 6:6).

• With his dying breath, Stephen asks the Lord to forgive his killers: “Lord, do not hold this sin against them” (Acts 7:60). The conversion of Saul would seem to be an answer to this prayer, as Augustine long ago observed.

• The Christian community prays for Peter after he has been arrested (Acts 12:5).

• The early Christians pray for Paul and Barnabas (Acts 13:3).

• Paul repeatedly says that he prays for other Christians (cf., e.g., Rom 1:9; 2 Cor 13:9; Eph
1:16; Phil 1:4, 9; Col 1:3; 1 Thess 1:2; 5:26; 2 Thess 1:11; 2 Thess 3:1; 2 Tim 1:3; Phil 4). For example, he tells the Corinthians, “we pray God that you may not do wrong” (2 Cor 13:7)
.
• Paul prays for the salvation of Israel (Rom 10:1).

• Paul asks the Christians to pray for him, explaining to them that by doing so they “strive together with me” (Rom 15:30; cf. also Phil 1:19; Col 4:2). Prayer thus brings about a kind of communion.

• Paul says that Christians pray for one another (2 Cor 9:14; Col 4:11). In fact, he instructs them to do this: “pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints” (Eph 6:18; here as throughout the New Testament the word “saints” refers to Christians on earth).

• The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews bluntly asks his readers, “Pray for us” (Heb 13:2).

• James makes it abundantly clear that we should pray for one another and that we should even confess our sins to one another in that context: “Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.” (James 5:14–16).

• John says that, with the exception of one guilty of “mortal sin,” praying for one another can restore a sinner: “If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that” (1 John 5:16).

John prays for his fellow Christians (3 John 2).

Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne.And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand. Revelation 8: 3-4

Peace.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Marian Consecration is an OPTIONAL spiritual practice for people who wish to be closer to Our Blessed Mother. It was originated by the great St. Louis de Montfort.

Marian Consecration is much older than St Louis de Montford. Carmelites have been entrusting themselves to the Blessed Mother long before “True Devotion” as well as several other religious orders, I’m sure.

 

[TK421]

Tis_Bearself:

Marian Consecration is an OPTIONAL spiritual practice for people who wish to be closer to Our Blessed Mother. It was originated by the great St. Louis de Montfort.

Marian Consecration is much older than St Louis de Montford. Carmelites have been entrusting themselves to the Blessed Mother long before “True Devotion” as well as several other religious orders, I’m sure.

The process of “Total Consecration to Mary” is a specific devotion that came from the book of St Louis de Montfort. In the broader sense, Marian devotion goes back to the very beginnings of the Church in the early centuries.

 

[Justin_Mary]

I don’t understand this consecration stuff. Aren’t the sacraments enough for our salvation? It’s hard for me to understand these discussions about consecration to Mary without some explanation of exactly what it is. Can somebody summarize this for me?

From the cross, Jesus looked to his mother & said, “Woman, behold your son.” & to the disciple whom he loved, “Behold your mother.”

To me, consecration to Mary is just that. You are the disciple whom he loved & he has entrusted you to his mother. We take her into our home, which is our heart, and follow Jesus being obedient to her. The Mother of God, God’s favored daughter, the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

In a way, the Church.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

A simple question for you: Why are you continuing to argue this point

I only brought up this point 4 or 5 posts back. Im not making any argument, im not claiming to be well educated in Catholic theology. I’m just asking questions so I can understand.

When I started coming back to God about 18 months ago my knowledge of Catholicism was simple. I thought the hand full of statements read out in the Holy Sacrament of Confirmation was basically all of it. I had no idea about all these other doctrines, i never imagined there was so much disagreement over the Word, so many bitter divisions, so much politics. I recently wept in learning that there is over 45,000 Christian denominations and prayed deeply for God’s grace to all Christians upon their deaths.

Anyway that’s why I might say things that are against the teaching of the Church, cos I don’t know? So sorry if I hurt peoples feelings but I have to ask questions, so I can learn.

Brother,
Okay, this will post will be a bit long.

No problem. I appreciate your explanation… God Bless.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When I started coming back to God about 18 months ago my knowledge of Catholicism was simple. I thought the hand full of statements read out in the Holy Sacrament of Confirmation was basically all of it.

Well, being simple is a good thing, actually. Our Lord says we should be like little children when we approach him.

A lot of the stuff you read on CAF falls in a category of advanced theology or advanced spiritual practices. It’s not something every Catholic needs to do, or even know about.

It’s good that you are coming back to the Church. Just be careful of being overly critical of things that you might not be totally familiar with.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Well, being simple is a good thing, actually.

I miss that simplicity and to be honest i never felt as close to our Lord than I did during that most trying time of my life.

Our Lord says we should be like little children when we approach him.

That’s so true. Thx for that moving reminder.
The things I knew about Catholicism were taught to me when I was a kid, growing up.

A lot of the stuff you read on CAF falls in a category of advanced theology or advanced spiritual practices.

True. I find that Im not getting closer to God by learning more theology as I thought I would.
And it’s not helping with my spiritual war against the evil one either.

It’s not something every Catholic needs to do, or even know about.

I might start another thread asking for the most basic fundamentals Catholics should know. Simple Catholicism for children… LoL…
Thx and God Bless…

 

[TheLittleLady]

Her 4 dogmas have already puzzled so many people, why invent more?

??? Consecration is not a dogma. It is an optional pious devotion.

Why are people so prepared to risk their souls on a gamble with Mary when Jesus provides a no error guarantee?

If you and I were real life friends, and I made such a statement about your mother “Why gamble on Pai’s mom to give him the message?” would that be the sign that I love your mom?

No words to answer this, I would suggest perhaps studying Marian devotion. Begin with Bishop Sheen’s “The World’s First Love”.

People can already go to Mary yet they want to make it obligatory that everyone does, why?

Optional private devotion.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I thought the hand full of statements read out in the Holy Sacrament of Confirmation was basically all of it.

The people who gave you this “handful of statements” hid the other thousands of years of teaching from you? Faith began at the creation of our world, carried on through Moses and the Prophets, the Church was born almost 2000 years ago, 33 AD. It would be impossible to sum that up in a “handful of statements”.

Ask your priest when the instruction in the Catholic Faith classes happen at your parish.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

No words to answer this, I would suggest perhaps studying Marian devotion. Begin with Bishop Sheen’s “The World’s First Love”.

You have missed the conversation and the direction it took. I love Fulton Sheen we need someone like him giving daily sermons at 7pm mainstream TV.
The problem is that I’ve studied Marian theology too much really. It’s all too confusing and unnecessary for me. My focus needs to be elsewhere.

The people who gave you this “handful of statements” hid the other thousands of years of teaching from you?

Do u remember doing your Confirmation in church? I was about 14yo.
This is how it went.
Bishop: Do you reject Satan and all his works and all his empty promises?
Candidates: I do.
Bishop: Do you believe in God the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Candidates: I do.
Bishop: Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
Candidates: I do.
Bishop: Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who came upon the apostles at Pentecost and today is given to you sacramentally in confirmation?
Candidates: I do.
Bishop: Do you believe in the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
Candidates: I do.
Bishop: This is our faith. This is the faith of the Church. We are proud to profess it
in Christ Jesus our Lord.
All present: Amen.

This is the handful of statements I was referring to. I didn’t know much more than this at that age and it was the same only a year ago. I apologize if my ignorance offends you.
Anyway I reached peace on this earlier. I encourage u to read as it will explain a few things.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I apologize if my ignorance offends you

No offence, simply sadness that you were not taught by those who had the responsibility.

 

[Sarcelle]

I was raised atheist but I have found out that way too many cradle Catholics I talk to don’t know even the basics of Catholicism.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Ament !,

 

[twf]

In addition to what others have said…even St Paul makes it clear that he is a “mediator” in salvation… check out Col 1:24.
Mary, the saints, and all of us, participate in Christ’s role as mediator. We don’t need to. He doesn’t need us. But He wills our participation.

 

[Mark121359]

Instead of getting all emotional over some simple questions how about addressing some of them.

I’m not emotional over it. No, in fact I’m quite POed about it to be honest. I get sick of Catholics who dishonor her on this forum. As for addressing these “simple” questions? They have been addressed, a gazillion times. That’s what the search function is used for!