B
buffalo
Guest
Yeah, you will have to suck it up. But be determined to learn and to explain the teachings when and if they ask. You still have the duty to transmit the truths of Catholicism to them even if you have some issues.
I disagree with some Catholic teachings... How do I deal with this?
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B
bilop
Guest
J
johnlavelle
Guest
If there are areas where you struggle for understanding and faith, then struggle. Reserve judgement and clinging to your (or the more generally popular) opinion especially when opinion conflicts with teaching developed with the guidance of the holy spirit, in great humility, over many centuries. Opinion (mine at least) tends to be pretty ephemeral and to change measurably on the basis of my most recent reading, conversation, or meal. Try not to start your own religion on the basis of a difference of opinion.
M
mercygate
Guest
It’s a demo for the oxytocin phenomenon. You wrap the upper arms of a boy and girl together with duct tape and let 'em walk around for a few minutes to demonstrate the bonding that occurs when the oxytocin kicks in during sexual intimacy. Then you unwrap the duct tape and and use it again to link one member of the couple to another girl or boy. Do it again. Each time you re-use the duct tape, the bond gets weaker.
That’s what happens with multiple sexual partners.
It really gets their attention.
B
buffalo
Guest
Free-thinking is not compatible with the faith.
Free-Thinkers
and
Chapter 14 Liberalism and Free-Thought
I
iuchewie
Guest
So in order to be faithful I need to “have faith” in all of the church’s teachings? I didn’t realize that it was an all or nothing proposition.
There is absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind that God exists, Jesus is our savior, etc. I have no proof, therefore I believe these things out of faith.
That being said, I have issues with some of the teachings of the church, which while they are divine in their inspiration they are still man-made teachings, rules, laws, etc.
I don’t think it’s a matter of learning or studying more either. There are some things that I understand perfectly and I just simply don’t agree with. I suppose I separate “faith” and “following blindly”.
B
bilop
Guest
L
lizaanne
Guest
Well then, that’s a different matter altogether.
The short answer is that you need to get yourself right with God, understand what personal issues you have that prevent you from accepting the Truth, and then live according to your Faith.
I don’t intend this to sound easy. But this is how you live the example to your children - not by pretending, but by truly loving the Faith you profess, and being a living, loving example of it.
The Church does not contain error, therefore the issues lie within you to resolve. Just because you disagree does not mean that the Church is not right. You just need to figure out how to reconcile whatever it is that is keeping you from the fullness of Faith, get over it, and live as Christ is commanding of you.
~Liza
I
iuchewie
Guest
Liza -
I think this right here is what I have the most issue with (and please don’t take this as a personal attack - it’s awesome that you have this kind of unwaivering faith).
I’d venture to say that I can find so much “error” in the church I could go on for days. Blanket statements like this show ignorance in my opinion. I simply cannot accept that “I need to figure out how to reconcile” these things regardless of the issue.
The idea that anyone but God/Jesus is completely infallible is absurd in my opinion. Again, the Church is based on divine ideas/concepts but carried out by flesh. No one besides the Almighty himself is perfect – and this INCLUDES the “Church”.
For years, women were not “allowed” to be alter servers. For years, mass was only available in Latin. For years I had to genuflect before sitting in the pew. All of these things have “changed” over the year. Change tells me that something needed to be modified, hence something was “wrong” or in your words “contained error”.
I’m not trying to be combative here – just trying to get to a place where I feel comfortable with my faith.
chewie
A
allhers
Guest
If you are going to pass on the faith you need all the help you can get, arm yourself with the facts and then adhere to them. You can’t teach what you don’t believe to be true. Have you read all of these yet? This one in particular, and all the way back?
Humanae Vitae (to educate yourself in the correct teachings).
There is one there that is for Children, it’s title is Children, written by John Paul II in 1994.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_13121994_children_en.html
The one’s written by John XXIII were written in my life time and I wish I had been reading them all ever since I was young. I’ve read a lot but not all of these.
Also these, priestsforlife.org/contraception/index.htm
to educate yourself and your brother.
Early Christian writings:
earlychristianwritings.com/
…(still learning)
The Catechism online:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm#128 (read through it more than once and still read it)
The New American Bible online:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P4.HTM
The Apologetics on this site and EWTN and Fr. Corapi, so much and so many different places to learn the real Truth.
It’s amazing, the more I learn the more I realize that the 12 years I spent learning when I was younger is not nearly enough. A good priest I know says that we ought to all be students for life. I firmly agree.
.
My father was very devoted to St. Joseph, perhaps you need to ask his intercession to help you to be the father that God would want you to be, I will keep you in my prayers.
My parents didn’t teach me their opinions, thank God, they taught me the truth about Jesus and His Church and His teachings. Do that for your children too. God bless you and yours.
Humanae Vitae (to educate yourself in the correct teachings).
There is one there that is for Children, it’s title is Children, written by John Paul II in 1994.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_13121994_children_en.html
The one’s written by John XXIII were written in my life time and I wish I had been reading them all ever since I was young. I’ve read a lot but not all of these.
Also these, priestsforlife.org/contraception/index.htm
to educate yourself and your brother.
Early Christian writings:
earlychristianwritings.com/
…(still learning)
The Catechism online:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm#128 (read through it more than once and still read it)
The New American Bible online:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P4.HTM
The Apologetics on this site and EWTN and Fr. Corapi, so much and so many different places to learn the real Truth.
It’s amazing, the more I learn the more I realize that the 12 years I spent learning when I was younger is not nearly enough. A good priest I know says that we ought to all be students for life. I firmly agree.
.
My father was very devoted to St. Joseph, perhaps you need to ask his intercession to help you to be the father that God would want you to be, I will keep you in my prayers.
My parents didn’t teach me their opinions, thank God, they taught me the truth about Jesus and His Church and His teachings. Do that for your children too. God bless you and yours.
L
LilyM
Guest
If there’s no doubt in your mind that Jesus is our saviour, then there should also be no doubt in your mind that he really gave Peter the keys of heaven, and that He really gave the Holy Spirit to the Apostles to guide them into ALL truth (including the truth of whether or not we should eat meat on Fridays or sleep with someone we’re not married to).
In some cases, such as the meat on Fridays thing, there are different rules for different places, but then it’s a matter of obedience. Christ has taught us to be obedient to our spiritual authorities who were placed over us by God. He did this for one through St Paul who said to obey even the civil authorities, much less our spiritual leaders, since all were given their authority by God. He said it for another by directly telling the Apostles to obey even the teachings of the Scribes and Pharisees (which teachings were from God even if they personally were unGodly and didn’t live up to 'em) since the Scribes and Pharisees ‘sit in the seat of Moses’ (have spiritual teaching authority).
And above all there should be no doubt in your mind that He really meant it when He said ‘who hears you hears Me’ and ‘whatever you bind on Earth will be bound in heaven’. There’s no question of Apostolic or Church teaching (which are one and the same thing) merely being man-made.
C
CatsAndDogs
Guest
Your intial question has no answer, other than you shall simply have to accept that you are hypocritical in saying you believe in the Church qua the Church while not believing in the Church.
Then your concept of what the Church is is in error. The teachings of the Magisterium are to be accepted as dogma. If you can’t do that then do the best you can, and don’t accept the Host as that would be a lie on your part, as to not believe the Church is the Church is to accept a contradiction as your belief, which is a lie to yourself (and God, actually).
Your “error” is one of not accepting due authority, which is the basic protestant mistake.
Matters of DISCIPLINE are not matters of dogma. When your child was young you required he/she to hold your hand when crossing the street. When the child is “older” he/she is allowed to cross the street without handholding. “Handholding” is a discipline meant to ensure “safety”.
But in all cases your child is COMMANDED, via a Dogmatic assertion on your part, to BE VERY CAREFUL when crossing the street regardless of his/her age.
The “discipline” is to hold hands when young. The “dogma” is to not impact any moving objects while crossing the street.
Only if you can become “comfortable” with hypocracy can you become “comfortable” with not believing the Church is the Church qua THE CHURCH.
Keep delving into the distinction between discipline and dogma, and read the CCC as regards what you MUST believe, and why, versus what you THINK you can’t believe because “it’s against your principles”.
A close examination of those “principles” will reveal why they are examples of pride on your part.
BUT,… in the meantime do what you can to “be a good Catholic” while realizing you exist in mortal sin. God is more than a little merciful to folks like you and me who spend longer or shorter periods of time in the state of mortal sin.
Live and learn, and do your best!
M
mercygate
Guest
There is change and there is change; somethings are “changeable” – such as the meat-on-Friday discipline, and some things are not, such as the teaching on marriage. BTW, we still genuflect in the presence of the blessed sacrament.
Sounds like you’re a member of the “forgotten” generation of Catholics whose catechesis and spiritual development were ignored in the wake of the Council.
So how about starting a thread where you DEFEND one of teachings that bothers you? See if you can mount the Catholic case in a credible way. Play the defense attorney instead of the prosecution. But be prepared to field all the prosecution’s arguments. And you have a head start because you ARE also the prosecution.
B
buffalo
Guest
Faith is opening our hearts and minds to God. St Paul exhorts us not to follow blindly but to test all things.
Which man-made teachings do you have an issue with?
F
Franciscan
Guest
“Your “error” is one of not accepting due authority, which is the basic protestant mistake.”Your intial question has no answer, other than you shall simply have to accept that you are hypocritical in saying you believe in the Church qua the Church while not believing in the Church.
Then your concept of what the Church is is in error. The teachings of the Magisterium are to be accepted as dogma. If you can’t do that then do the best you can, and don’t accept the Host as that would be a lie on your part, as to not believe the Church is the Church is to accept a contradiction as your belief, which is a lie to yourself (and God, actually).
Your “error” is one of not accepting due authority, which is the basic protestant mistake.
Matters of DISCIPLINE are not matters of dogma. When your child was young you required he/she to hold your hand when crossing the street. When the child is “older” he/she is allowed to cross the street without handholding. “Handholding” is a discipline meant to ensure “safety”.
But in all cases your child is COMMANDED, via a Dogmatic assertion on your part, to BE VERY CAREFUL when crossing the street regardless of his/her age.
The “discipline” is to hold hands when young. The “dogma” is to not impact any moving objects while crossing the street.
Only if you can become “comfortable” with hypocracy can you become “comfortable” with not believing the Church is the Church qua THE CHURCH.
Keep delving into the distinction between discipline and dogma, and read the CCC as regards what you MUST believe, and why, versus what you THINK you can’t believe because “it’s against your principles”.
A close examination of those “principles” will reveal why they are examples of pride on your part.
BUT,… in the meantime do what you can to “be a good Catholic” while realizing you exist in mortal sin. God is more than a little merciful to folks like you and me who spend longer or shorter periods of time in the state of mortal sin.
Live and learn, and do your best!
Yes. I think even he agrees with this. It’s prise issue.
One of the ways to overcome this is to read or listen to conversion stories from people who you consider more intelligent than you.
If thinkers and geniuses like G.K. Chesterton, Newman, Hahn, Adler, and Edith Stein submitted–the church must be supernatural not only in it’s origins but in it’s ongoing life.
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iuchewie
Guest
I suppose the only way that I would respond to this would be to say if it’s the “Truth” then I’d expect them to find their way there on their own.
“Leading” them to a truth does not allow them the journey or the acceptance that I feel is necessary to embrace our faith fully.
chewie
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
Since you allow yourself the right to dissent from Church teachings, in all fairness don’t you think you should extend that same right to all Catholics–like your kids? Regardless of what the issue is?
Have you told them certain dissentions from Church teaching are wrong, like lying, cheating, and stealing? If you’ve ever punished your kids, then haven’t you already told them some things are right, and some things are wrong? If so, you didn’t expect them to find their way to the truth about these things on their own.
BTW, if it’s okay to dissent from Church teachings, I guess I can get rid of those pesky issues I don’t much feel like doing, like feeding the hungry or loving my neighbor or telling the truth or . . . well, I think you get the idea.
I
iuchewie
Guest
There’s a lot here and I’m going to try and respond to all of it in a constructive manner. I do have to say though that I think it’s this line of thinking that causes alot of the “crazy Catholic” sentiment across the world.
chewie
This may be where my big issue is and I’ve never realized it before. I have a hard time believing that all things tht the Magisterium teach are to be accepted as dogma. The Pope is human. He was fallible before he was Pope and he continues to be now that he’s been appointed (again, my opinion)
There is nothing that I “must” believe. I have a hard time with being called a hypocrite because I question something. I started the thread so I’m completely open for it, but I’d rather come to the Truth after answering my questions. Blindly following (or following on faith because “that’s what we’re told”) leads to the type of actions that caused Christ to be crucified.
I’m living in mortal sin because I’m questioning the church’s teachings?!?!? I’m sure there is a Bible passage to back this statement up but I’d like some clarification on it if you would.BUT,… in the meantime do what you can to “be a good Catholic” while realizing you exist in mortal sin. God is more than a little merciful to folks like you and me who spend longer or shorter periods of time in the state of mortal sin.
Live and learn, and do your best!
chewie
I
iuchewie
Guest
I’m not suggesting that I’m allowing myself to dissent from the Church teachings. I’m merely saying that I have issue with some of those teachings. To go back to my original examples (which again were probably poorly chosen) I DO in fact not eat meat on Fridays, I DIDN’T live with my wife prior to being married.
I suppose this opens another door… If I’m ACTING like the Church wants me to act but I’m having issue while doing it, am I as much in the “wrong” as if I weren’t “going through the motions”?
chewie
F
Franciscan
Guest
This is not just a recommendation it’s a duty…
The duties of parents
2221 The fecundity of conjugal love cannot be reduced solely to the procreation of children, but must extend to their moral education and their spiritual formation. "The role of parents in education is of such importance that it is almost impossible to provide an adequate substitute."29 The right and the duty of parents to educate their children are primordial and inalienable.30
2222 Parents must regard their children as children of God and respect them as human persons. Showing themselves obedient to the will of the Father in heaven, they educate their children to fulfill God’s law.
2223 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues. **This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the "material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones."31 Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children. By knowing how to acknowledge their own failings to their children, parents will be better able to guide and correct them: **
He who loves his son will not spare the rod. . . . He who disciplines his son will profit by him.32
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.33
2224 The home is the natural environment for initiating a human being into solidarity and communal responsibilities. Parents should teach children to avoid the compromising and degrading influences which threaten human societies.
2225 Through the grace of the sacrament of marriage, parents receive the responsibility and privilege of evangelizing their children. Parents should initiate their children at an early age into the mysteries of the faith of which they are the “first heralds” for their children. They should associate them from their tenderest years with the life of the Church.34 A wholesome family life can foster interior dispositions that are a genuine preparation for a living faith and remain a support for it throughout one’s life.
2226 Education in the faith by the parents should begin in the child’s earliest years. This already happens when family members help one another to grow in faith by the witness of a Christian life in keeping with the Gospel. Family catechesis precedes, accompanies, and enriches other forms of instruction in the faith. Parents have the mission of teaching their children to pray and to discover their vocation as children of God.35 The parish is the Eucharistic community and the heart of the liturgical life of Christian families; it is a privileged place for the catechesis of children and parents.
2227 Children in turn contribute to the growth in holiness of their parents.36 Each and everyone should be generous and tireless in forgiving one another for offenses, quarrels, injustices, and neglect. Mutual affection suggests this. The charity of Christ demands it.37
2228 Parents’ respect and affection are expressed by the care and attention they devote to bringing up their young children and providing for their physical and spiritual needs. **As the children grow up, the same respect and devotion lead parents to educate them in the right use of their reason and freedom. **
2229 As those first responsible for the education of their children, parents have the right to choose a school for them which corresponds to their own convictions. This right is fundamental. As far as possible parents have the duty of choosing schools that will best help them in their task as Christian educators.38 Public authorities have the duty of guaranteeing this parental right and of ensuring the concrete conditions for its exercise.
2230 When they become adults, children have the right and duty to choose their profession and state of life. They should assume their new responsibilities within a trusting relationship with their parents, willingly asking and receiving their advice and counsel. Parents should be careful not to exert pressure on their children either in the choice of a profession or in that of a spouse. This necessary restraint does not prevent them - quite the contrary from giving their children judicious advice, particularly when they are planning to start a family.
2231 Some forgo marriage in order to care for their parents or brothers and sisters, to give themselves more completely to a profession, or to serve other honorable ends. They can contribute greatly to the good of the human family.
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