I don't believe in divorce, but should I separate?

  • Thread starter Thread starter marjims
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That’s great marjims!!!

Re: your marriage–ultimately it will boil down to if you can ever trust him again. You might be able to forgive him, but if you really find that over time, you can no longer trust him, it will be hard to maintain a solid marriage. And it wouldn’t be your fault. He destroyed the trust, truly. He needs to rebuild your trust back, but only you can determine how much time you can give that, or if you can ever really trust again. From an outsider looking in…not sure what to suggest. Except to say that time will tell (if you remain with him) if he becomes trustworthy again. You’ll never really know unless he is ‘tested’ again.
 
marjims said:
Urf had some questions about my devastation over my husband’s two betrayals after his affair had ended when he again tried to see this woman, and later, to give money for her daughter’s care.

I never suspected my husband was trying to visit this woman for the purposes of continuing the affair - the pain and betrayal for me comes from him planning and sharing his itinerary with me before he ever left this country - on our wedding anniversary, no less - which he had already altered to deceive me. I spoke with him every day for two weeks, praying for him at the specific times I knew he was flying or driving to other cities, asking how he was doing, as his job requires him to often work around the clock, voicing concern over the areas he was traveling to, which are very often lacking decent health care, worrying who was driving him, as he always requires a driver in that country, etc. In short, I was being reassured every step of the way in detail about his accommodations, travel and work - and ALL of it was a lie.

Even when he arrived home, telling me he was in Turkey only, when his passport clearly stated he had been to Russia, he at first lied and said it was a mistake on the passport, that he had never been there. I am upset that my husband LIES so much and so easily to me; I was not assuming any continuation of his affair.

And yes, he could have done all he wanted through a letter to her - he acknowledged that to me the first time he lied to me about this, and said he regretted not handling it that way. I would have wholeheartedly supported him in that effort, I would have been proud of him and I would now be able to trust him.

All your prayers must have worked!! I got an excellent report from all my doctors yesterday!! Go back in 3 months and then if all is still well, “graduate” to every 6 months. Thank you all so much!!
Click to expand...
Trust is not earned it is given.
If we close our hearts to suffering, we close our hearts to love.
It is our obligation to forgive.
It is your obligation to not break your wedding vows, this is the for better or worst part.
You believe your husband loves you and I would say that his confessions of conscience to you are examples of his love. Show him mercy, please for your own sake.

Pray to St. Rita she had a few rough spots with her husband as well.
 
whatevergirl said:
That’s great marjims!!!

Re: your marriage–ultimately it will boil down to if you can ever trust him again. You might be able to forgive him, but if you really find that over time, you can no longer trust him, it will be hard to maintain a solid marriage. And it wouldn’t be your fault. He destroyed the trust, truly. He needs to rebuild your trust back, but only you can determine how much time you can give that, or if you can ever really trust again. From an outsider looking in…not sure what to suggest. Except to say that time will tell (if you remain with him) if he becomes trustworthy again. You’ll never really know unless he is ‘tested’ again.
Click to expand...
No one is incapable of opening their hearts to trusting another again. Remember even St. Peter lied and Christ forgave him. Do not forget the anguish that the husband must be in over this (if he truly loves her).

She should consider not looking to test him but help him avoid the occasion of sin. I know that you probably not suggesting to test him.
 
that’s fantastic news!!! I’m so happy for you!

I agree with Whatevergirl. You need to do what feels right for you. You have to be happy. You can forgive your husband, but if the trust is gone, then a marriage is difficult to maintain.

Only time will tell what the right path is for you.
 
EvelynEVF said:
We are required to forgive, but we are not required to stay in harm’s way. There is a difference. It is quite possible for the OP to protect herself by separating from her husband, and at the same time work very hard to heal and forgive.
Click to expand...
She is not in harms way from what I can observe sense from what the OP said that their are no more extra martial affairs happening. Her heart is open to suffering because she loves her husband. Which is a testament to the good character of the OP.
 
Serap said:
that’s fantastic news!!! I’m so happy for you!

I agree with Whatevergirl. You need to do what feels right for you. You have to be happy. You can forgive your husband, but if the trust is gone, then a marriage is difficult to maintain.

Only time will tell what the right path is for you.
Click to expand...
The righteous path is forgiveness.
 
The wedding vows are already broken. He brokes them.

Why are you telling this woman that she must stay married and stay vulnerable to a person who has clearly demonstrated that he can lie with great ease and will do so right to her face, and even construct very elaborate lies?

You are more than welcome to your own opinion, but please don’t claim to speak for the church. This is really a matter for this woman and her priest to decide. The Church recognizes that for safety’s sake, separation and even civil divorce are legitimate and sometimes necessary.

Yes, there is for better and for worse, but that doesn’t mean no matter what. It means you walk through things together, not that one partner can drag the other anywhere he wants.
 
nmoerbeek said:
No one is incapable of opening their hearts to trusting another again. Remember even St. Peter lied and Christ forgave him. Do not forget the anguish that the husband must be in over this (if he truly loves her).

She should consider not looking to test him but help him avoid the occasion of sin. I know that you probably not suggesting to test him.
Click to expand...
I’m not telling her to test him. I’m saying that when he was put into a testing situation, (the woman overseas) he decided to lie and take another course of action, so time will tell, if he does that again.

God forgives us, but He does require us to be repentant? If we ask for forgiveness, we need to change our lives. This could take time, but the desire to wish to change needs to be there, and the striving needs to be there. So, let’s say, you hurt me, you beg for my forgiveness, and I forgive you…and then the next week, you hurt me again…and then beg for forgiveness again, should I trust that you will keep your word? The husband here has a responsibility to keeping his word. It is a two way street–marriage. Yes, I believe marjims to be a very forgiving person, and I believe we are called to do that in marriage, and in life in general. But, the husband needs to also change and show marjims that he is trustworthy. God sometimes allows us the consequences of our sins, not because He didn’t forgive, but because He loves us…that much. If He didn’t care about our repentance …He would not be a loving God.
 
We’re all posting at the same time. . .

She is in harm’s way. This man has demonstrated that he will go to great lengths to lie. He has a long way to go to earn back her trust. That would be the penance that goes with his confession. It sounds like he has risen to the challenge and is working on it, but she has a right to be safe from the lies until he has a proven track record.

God doesn’t tell us that because we married someone, we have to take whatever they throw at us without any protest. I’m not advocating she walk out and not turn back, but what motivation does he have to help him grow in holiness if he can do all this and have no concrete consequence?
 
EvelynEVF said:
The wedding vows are already broken. He brokes them.

Why are you telling this woman that she must stay married and stay vulnerable to a person who has clearly demonstrated that he can lie with great ease and will do so right to her face, and even construct very elaborate lies?

You are more than welcome to your own opinion, but please don’t claim to speak for the church. This is really a matter for this woman and her priest to decide. The Church recognizes that for safety’s sake, separation and even civil divorce are legitimate and sometimes necessary.

Yes, there is for better and for worse, but that doesn’t mean no matter what. It means you walk through things together, not that one partner can drag the other anywhere he wants.
Click to expand...
Evelyn, you say things better than me today. lol

I agree. Not telling you marjims what to do…only you can decide.
 
EvelynEVF said:
The wedding vows are already broken. He brokes them.

Why are you telling this woman that she must stay married and stay vulnerable to a person who has clearly demonstrated that he can lie with great ease and will do so right to her face, and even construct very elaborate lies?

You are more than welcome to your own opinion, but please don’t claim to speak for the church. This is really a matter for this woman and her priest to decide. The Church recognizes that for safety’s sake, separation and even civil divorce are legitimate and sometimes necessary.

Yes, there is for better and for worse, but that doesn’t mean no matter what. It means you walk through things together, not that one partner can drag the other anywhere he wants.
Click to expand...
First** I agree** that this is a matter for a priest.

I am not speaking for the church, but if you are irritated that I am making references to scripture, saints that a re contrary to your opinion may I suggest you counter them with your own evidence.

I think you would agree that we should surrender ourselves to god no matter what. Even if that means we suffer, out of love for God. She will not be released from her vows unto death do us part. Even if the priest who we both agree she should be talking to encourages a separation.

St. Rita was put through a horrible time by her husband. Yet at the end of his life he repented for his evil ways and his soul was saved.** I hope we both agree that good comes out of love and sacrifice**.

Would you disagree that forgiving her husband, loving him and continuing to try to make the marriage work is not the Holy thing to do? Would you make the claim that a separation from her husband is something that a Saint would do? It may not be a sin for her to do it, but why would we encourage someone to be lukewarm?
 
nmoerbeek said:
First** I agree** that this is a matter for a priest.

I am not speaking for the church, but if you are irritated that I am making references to scripture, saints that a re contrary to your opinion may I suggest you counter them with your own evidence.

I think you would agree that we should surrender ourselves to god no matter what. Even if that means we suffer, out of love for God. She will not be released from her vows unto death do us part. Even if the priest who we both agree she should be talking to encourages a separation.

St. Rita was put through a horrible time by her husband. Yet at the end of his life he repented for his evil ways and his soul was saved.** I hope we both agree that good comes out of love and sacrifice**.

Would you disagree that forgiving her husband, loving him and continuing to try to make the marriage work is not the Holy thing to do? Would you make the claim that a separation from her husband is something that a Saint would do? It may not be a sin for her to do it, but why would we encourage someone to be lukewarm?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
 
nmoerbeek said:
We all decide whether or not to turn our backs on God.
Click to expand...
I just lost a long reply. So I will stick to this:

It is not your place to determine that separating would be turning her back on God.

I expect my vehemence reveals that I am walking this path myself. I hung in there to do the right and saintly thing until I nearly had a nervous breakdown. My confessor and spiritual director both sighed with relief when I finally OBEYED GOD and left. Yep, God told me in a very direct way, repeatedly, to get out. And because I couldn’t believe that God would ask me to do such a thing, I chose to disobey. So He told me again and again and finally I had the faith to follow his call.

Following God’s call does not mean following in St Rita’s footsteps. It doesn’t mean that we are lukewarm if we don’t do the “accepted” thing, or that we are better or more faithful for staying in a tough situation.

Sometimes the hardest and holiest thing to do is get out of God’s way and let Him discipline the offender.
 
Would you disagree that forgiving her husband, loving him and continuing to try to make the marriage work is not the Holy thing to do?

No, but sometimes the best way to do that is to do it from a distance.

Would you make the claim that a separation from her husband is something that a Saint would do?

YES, if that is what God calls them to. Remember that saints don’t follow our rules.

It may not be a sin for her to do it, but why would we encourage someone to be lukewarm?

There is nothing lukewarm about having to muster the courage to separate, any more than to find the strength to stay.
 
EvelynEVF said:
Would you disagree that forgiving her husband, loving him and continuing to try to make the marriage work is not the Holy thing to do?

No, but sometimes the best way to do that is to do it from a distance.

Would you make the claim that a separation from her husband is something that a Saint would do?

YES, if that is what God calls them to. Remember that saints don’t follow our rules.

It may not be a sin for her to do it, but why would we encourage someone to be lukewarm?
Click to expand...
There is nothing lukewarm about having to muster the courage to separate, any more than to find the strength to stay.

Name one saint which you can make such a statement. I have yet to find one who did it and DID NOT FEEL SORROW FOR IT LATER! One saint (can’t remember) spent the rest of her life in poverty and penance over leaving her first husband.

I am sorry for your heartache. Let us both agree she should see a priest.

It takes no courage to run away from things.
 
EvelynEVF said:
I just lost a long reply. So I will stick to this:

It is not your place to determine that separating would be turning her back on God.

I expect my vehemence reveals that I am walking this path myself. I hung in there to do the right and saintly thing until I nearly had a nervous breakdown. My confessor and spiritual director both sighed with relief when I finally OBEYED GOD and left. Yep, God told me in a very direct way, repeatedly, to get out. And because I couldn’t believe that God would ask me to do such a thing, I chose to disobey. So He told me again and again and finally I had the faith to follow his call.

Following God’s call does not mean following in St Rita’s footsteps. It doesn’t mean that we are lukewarm if we don’t do the “accepted” thing, or that we are better or more faithful for staying in a tough situation.

Sometimes the hardest and holiest thing to do is get out of God’s way and let Him discipline the offender.
Click to expand...
I did not say it was my place.

All I said was that it is never permissible to turn our backs on God. But it is a choice. So don’t put words in my mouth.
 
EvelynEVF said:
Would you disagree that forgiving her husband, loving him and continuing to try to make the marriage work is not the Holy thing to do?

No, but sometimes the best way to do that is to do it from a distance.

Would you make the claim that a separation from her husband is something that a Saint would do?

YES, if that is what God calls them to. Remember that saints don’t follow our rules.

It may not be a sin for her to do it, but why would we encourage someone to be lukewarm?
Click to expand...
There is nothing lukewarm about having to muster the courage to separate, any more than to find the strength to stay.

God would never call a priest to leave the priesthood! Just so much as he would never call a person to leave a marriage.

But he might encourage him to go on a retreat, pilgrimage, join a new order, do heavy penance. It does leave open the possibility to a separation then for a person who is married. Thy will be done.

I do believe she should not discount the option of staying with her husband though. I felt that the posters here were presenting the agreement that it was the right thing to leave her husband which I do disagree with. Or that it was an option to trust him again, or that by him breaking his vow that sealed the deal and she had to stop being charitable, or that it was a choice to forgive him.

We should forgive.
We should love.
We should trust in God.
We should endure suffering for God.

That is why I take exception to the advice given here. It is not option if we wish to stay in union with God to do these things.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top