I don't believe that sinning non-believers are doomed for Hell

[Serap]

This may be controversial, but I am responding to another thread about whether or not Hell exists.

The scenario of a prostitute who went to Hell…I have an issue with this one.

Scenario:
As a little girl she was beaten by her mother and mother’s boyfriend. Her mother’s boyfriend also sexually abused her. The mother had many different live-in boyfriends who all beat this little girl and sexually abused her. She left home at 14 and went to the city. She met evil people and became addicted to crack cocaine and became a prostitute. She was often beaten by “tricks” left for dead. She was beaten by her pimp if she didn’t follow his rules.

At the age of 20, she’s emaciated from malnutricion, she’s had 5 babies whom social services has taken away from her.

She dies giving birth to her 6th baby at the age of 21.

I have a REALLY hard time believing this woman is going to Hell. She never repented while being alive either. She is ignorant and believes that God is some sick joke because her life has been so horrible.

So what happens…at the time of death this woman is given one last chance to repent? She sees God upon death and is given the chance to see her ways and repent?

If this is the case and we are given one last chance to repent at death…then why live a good Catholic life?

I know this is highly philosophical, but it’s something I’ve always pondered.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**If things were clear it would be a whole lot easier for all of us. But God is Mercy, Love, and Justice. He is wise. He is a mystery. His ways are not our ways.

So, what does that mean? It means that we either believe or we don’t. If we believe then we must make the decision to trust in Him.

In your above scenario I really don’t believe that poor woman would go to Hell. Hell is something we freely choose. We go to hell if we freely choose to turn our back on God. She couldn’t have done that freely since she didn’t even know if He exists.

God wants ALL of us in heaven with Him so I believe He will give us infinite chances to be with Him. But He will not interfere with our free will if we say “no”.

As for “if everyone get’s a chance on their deathbed/right after death why live a good Catholic life?”… that’s easy. If you love someone, you will not hurt them on purpose. To live a good Catholic life is to show your love for God.

If you love your parents you would not go out and do everything that would upset/hurt them JUST because you know they would still love you anyways. We just don’t hurt our loved ones on purpose.

We are put on this earth for 2 reasons. To know God, and to love Him. If we know Him but choose not to love Him, that is when our souls are in danger of Hell (which is the absence of LOVE).**

 

[Em_in_FL]

Your question is not uncommon… nor is it anything to be deeply distraught over. You’re showing concern for someone (hypothetical) who has never been shown the love of God in her life. I’m SURE there are plenty of people in this world that fall into this category - so it’s a very relevant question.

I think it’s important to share some quotes from the Catechism…

1037
God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

      Father, accept this offering
      from your whole family.
      Grant us your peace in this life,
      save us from final damnation,
      and count us among those you have chosen.622

So, from that we learned that persisting in mortal sin is necessary… so what is mortal sin?

1857
For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

In your scenario this woman would have to have full knowledge and deliberate consent for her sins to truly qualify as being mortal. Neither you, nor I, can judge her heart on those matters… only God. Yes, she very well could lack the knowledge of the true love and mercy of God our Father… therefore she would not be thrown into hell - but would face purification in purgatory. Once purified (brought to full knowledge of God) she would be able to go into heaven.

There are MANY people in this world that need our prayers. But have faith that our loving God is merciful to those who endure greater struggles in life than others.

God bless!

 

[DL82]

If this is the case and we are given one last chance to repent at death…then why live a good Catholic life?

If you knew that your husband was so madly in love with you that he’d forgive you and accept you back even if you had an affair and cheated on him, even if that hurt him more than you could ever imagine, would that make you fall in love with him more or would it just be an excuse for you to love him less?

 

[iluvmybabies]

**If things were clear it would be a whole lot easier for all of us. But God is Mercy, Love, and Justice. He is wise. He is a mystery. His ways are not our ways.

So, what does that mean? It means that we either believe or we don’t. If we believe then we must make the decision to trust in Him.

In your above scenario I really don’t believe that poor woman would go to Hell. Hell is something we freely choose. We go to hell if we freely choose to turn our back on God. She couldn’t have done that freely since she didn’t even know if He exists.

God wants ALL of us in heaven with Him so I believe He will give us infinite chances to be with Him. But He will not interfere with our free will if we say “no”.

As for “if everyone get’s a chance on their deathbed/right after death why live a good Catholic life?”… that’s easy. If you love someone, you will not hurt them on purpose. To live a good Catholic life is to show your love for God.

If you love your parents you would not go out and do everything that would upset/hurt them JUST because you know they would still love you anyways. We just don’t hurt our loved ones on purpose.

We are put on this earth for 2 reasons. To know God, and to love Him. If we know Him but choose not to love Him, that is when our souls are in danger of Hell (which is the absence of LOVE).**

WOW very well said Malia!! Awesome! I couldn’t have even thought of explaining it any better! Thanks for sharing this…It’s helped me understand a lot as well!!!

 

[iluvmybabies]

I have a question…

One of my good friend’s hubby is athiest…He’s had a rough life, he’s been into drugs, hanging around with the bad crowd through most of his life, he was burned around his face once by some “bad” people, his parents divorced and they had a really bad relationship before and after when he was just a boy…

But he’s married through a church with his wife because that pleased her… He didn’t really take the Church’s blessings seriously he told me that it made her happy so he did what she wanted…

So where does that put him??

I know he’s trying to live his life well after he got married but sometimes he’s really hurtful to his wife, like when she got pg with their second baby, he was like “you wanted the kid not me!” Well my ex did that too…but anyhow, he’s never been violent with her and his outbursts such as the one above happen once in a while…

When he got terminally ill, he’s only 25, from his job, that they took one lung out, very sad, and he’s still terminally ill, I asked the church to pray for him, and told him that he just looked at me like whatever…

Where does that leave him in the end?

Would GOD forgive someone whom might know about HIM but not willing to admit???

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

WOW very well said Malia!! Awesome! I couldn’t have even thought of explaining it any better! Thanks for sharing this…It’s helped me understand a lot as well!!!

Thanks

Where does that leave him in the end?

Would GOD forgive someone whom might know about HIM but not willing to admit???

**That is the point, we just don’t know. All we can do is hope and pray. Only God knows your friend’s heart.

We can hope for God’s mercy, but we should never count on/expect it. That could lead to dangerous thinking (like, well, since I don’t really know I will just do this bad thing and God will forgive me because I am ignorant of His teachings).

While God is merciful, He also expects us to learn and grow and WANT to love Him.
**

 

[1ke]

So what happens…at the time of death this woman is given one last chance to repent? She sees God upon death and is given the chance to see her ways and repent?

The Church does not teach we have “one last chance” to repent. We are judged at death.

Only God knows the state of one’s soul at death. Those who are in mortal sin cannot enter Heaven. As has been pointed out, mortal sin requires grave matter, full knowledge, and free will.

God will judge our souls based on our knowledge and our actions.

You can throw up all the hypotheticals in the world, but we can give only one answer:

God will judge us based on our knowledge and our actions. God has laid out what is necessary for salvation. Those who know God’s requirements are bound to keep them.

Those who are invincibly ignorant will be judged on what they do know and how they sought God despite not having access to the Sacraments and Grace.

If this is the case and we are given one last chance to repent at death…then why live a good Catholic life?

There is no “last chance” to repent after death. If you die in a state of unrepentent mortal sin, you do not get a “last chance.” That is why one must live a good Catholic life, frequent the Sacraments, and be prepared… we do not know the day or the hour when we will face judgment.

 

[cthulhubryan]

We know for absolute certainty that hell exists. What we do not know is if anyone is there or ever will be. God is Love, God is Mercy.

All of us deserve hell, but God’s love for us allows us to escape hell through the sacrifice of His Son and the Church that His Son created.

 

[montanaman]

Fortunately, where people ultimately end up is up to God and not us. Making guesses, however educated they may be, is just a waste of time.

 

[iluvmybabies]

Thanks

**That is the point, we just don’t know. All we can do is hope and pray. Only God knows your friend’s heart.

We can hope for God’s mercy, but we should never count on/expect it. That could lead to dangerous thinking (like, well, since I don’t really know I will just do this bad thing and God will forgive me because I am ignorant of His teachings).

While God is merciful, He also expects us to learn and grow and WANT to love Him.
**

Good point… Thanks again…

 

[withwind]

So what happens…at the time of death this woman is given one last chance to repent? She sees God upon death and is given the chance to see her ways and repent?

If this is the case and we are given one last chance to repent at death…then why live a good Catholic life?

I know this is highly philosophical, but it’s something I’ve always pondered.

How many times we know it is wrong to do something and we still do it anyways? Temptations of the Devils win!

At death, temptations from the Devils even stronger. Don’t wait til then and say I would say “yes” to God. One can still reject God even if He is there for him to see.

Living a good life and receiving graces from God will help one during the time he is on his death bed.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

didn’t read replies

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um, no one here should believe that b/c the Church does not teach that.

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the only thing we can safely say about sinners in general, believers or otherwise, is that they are reducing their odds of attaining heaven if they don’t repent and amend their ways.

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who goes to hell or not, is not only not up to us, it is unknown to us.

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knowing the sinners history doesn’t make a lick of difference to that fact