I don't get it...Benedict XVI says that Religion can never be used to justify violence

[Pope_Noah_I]

Benedict XVI says that Religion can never be used to justify violence, right? Urban II launched the first crusade, another Pope condoned torture, others supported the death penalty. So my question is, which Pope is right? How can one Pope say that killing is not a sin, but another says that it is?

 

[Ahimsa]

Benedict XVI says that Religion can never be used to justify violence, right? Urban II launched the first crusade, another Pope condoned torture, others supported the death penalty. So my question is, which Pope is right? How can one Pope say that killing is not a sin, but another says that it is?

Don’t worry about it. It’s not ex cathedra.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

Don’t worry about it. It’s not ex cathedra.

But it’s a matter of faith and morals. “Thou shalt not kill” sounds pretty, um, *ex cathedra *to me.

 

[Ahimsa]

But it’s a matter of faith and morals. “Thou shalt not kill” sounds pretty, um, *ex cathedra *to me.

Yeah, but “Thou shalt not do violence” is not part of the 10 commandments.

 

[1ke]

Benedict XVI says that Religion can never be used to justify violence, right? Urban II launched the first crusade, another Pope condoned torture, others supported the death penalty. So my question is, which Pope is right? How can one Pope say that killing is not a sin, but another says that it is?

There is no contradiction.

In none of these examples is *religion *being used to *justify *violence nor do they contradict what Benedict said.

As to “thou shall not kill,” it applies to innocent persons. The Church teaching has not changed. Self defense, just war, the death penalty, etc, do not contradict the Fifth Commandment.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

There is no contradiction.

In none of these examples is *religion *being used to *justify *violence nor do they contradict what Benedict said.

As to “thou shall not kill,” it applies to innocent persons. The Church teaching has not changed. Self defense, just war, the death penalty, etc, do not contradict the Fifth Commandment.

Then why does the Catholic Church want to abolish the death penalty?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Benedict XVI says that Religion can never be used to justify violence, right?

That is correct. Religion cannot condemn violence. The Church never condemn violence.

Urban II launched the first crusade, another Pope condoned torture, others supported the death penalty.

The crusade was a defensive means to protect Christian pilgrims going the Holy City. Um, I’m not so sure which Pope support the death penalty? I hardly think any Pope ever declare those infallible. Name a Pope who did, and I like to know what document. The entire document.

So my question is, which Pope is right? How can one Pope say that killing is not a sin, but another says that it is?

The Pope is right; religion cannot be an excuse for violence. Muslim extremist have distorted Religion to justify their so called Holy War.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Then why does the Catholic Church want to abolish the death penalty?

The Church is very much throughout her history does not condone the death penalty nor teach that it is morally right.

 

[1ke]

Then why does the Catholic Church want to abolish the death penalty?

The Church does not teach the death penalty is intrinsically wrong when it is the only way to protect innocent persons from the unjust aggressor. In times past, it often was the only way to protect innocent people. In modern times, that is not the case in most places in the world.

If you read what the Church actually teaches on the death penalty you will see that it both teaches it is a legitimate means of defending the public and maintaining the social order **AND **that with our advances in modern society it is rarely necessary to apply it.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

Well, then, what did our Lord mean when he said “If your enemy strikes you on your right cheek, offer him your left.”?

 

[1ke]

Well, then, what did our Lord mean when he said “If your enemy strikes you on your right cheek, offer him your left.”?

Christ was speaking about forgiveness-- a subject which the church teaches on extensively-- and refraining from vengance. And he was not speaking literally BTW.

The death penalty cannot legitimately be used as *revenge *or punishment– this is reserved for God’s judgment alone. The Church teaches the only *just *use of such a penalty is the case when it is necessary for the protection of innocent persons.

.

 

[Exalt]

The crusade was a defensive means to protect Christian pilgrims going the Holy City. Um, I’m not so sure which Pope support the death penalty? I hardly think any Pope ever declare those infallible. Name a Pope who did, and I like to know what document. The entire document.

Did you know that Popes very, *very *rarely invoke infallibility when making statements and such?

 

[JFonseka]

It was not only Benedict who said that, it was a bunch of other church leaders as well as the Anglican head.

What is so hard to get ?

The Crusades…instead of being like every other uninformed person about the “crusades”, why not GOOGLE it, and learn the main motives behind it as well as other important information so that you wouldn’t need to ask silly questions.

Someone here already addressed a main issue of it here. It was to protect Christians in the Holy Lands, the main aim. However what some of the soldiers and knights did there was unacceptable. The Pope could not control everything, and as you know in those days, it’s not like news got from one end to the other that quickly, it would be months before word was gotten and then months until new orders got back to the Holy Lands.

 

[JFonseka]

Don’t worry about it. It’s not ex cathedra.

You must be a big hit with everyone, the life of the party

 

[Ahimsa]

You must be a big hit with everyone, the life of the party

:dancing: :extrahappy: :tiphat:

 

[Peregrino]

There is no contradiction.

In none of these examples is *religion *being used to *justify *violence nor do they contradict what Benedict said.

As to “thou shall not kill,” it applies to innocent persons. The Church teaching has not changed. Self defense, just war, the death penalty, etc, do not contradict the Fifth Commandment.

Deus Vult (God wills it) sounds fairly religious to me…

 

[Peregrino]

Don’t worry about it. It’s not ex cathedra.

 

[Brendan]

Benedict XVI says that Religion can never be used to justify violence, right? Urban II launched the first crusade,

The Crusades were defensive wars against invading Turks and Arabs.

Remember that the Turks were not from Asia Minor, but rather began an invasion of Greek Asia Minor. The Byzantine Emperor requested Western aid in repellign the invaders.

The same holds true for North Africa, which was Roman and Coptic and Spain.

All of which were invaded by Arabs.

Defending against invasion, or helping an ally recover land lost to an invader is not unjust.

If so the Allies were at fault for the D-Day invasion.

 

[guanophore]

Benedict XVI says that Religion can never be used to justify violence, right? Urban II launched the first crusade, another Pope condoned torture, others supported the death penalty. So my question is, which Pope is right? How can one Pope say that killing is not a sin, but another says that it is?

There is a difference between the use of force in the interest of justice, and violence.

 

[TMC]

There is no contradiction.

In none of these examples is *religion *being used to *justify *violence nor do they contradict what Benedict said.

As to “thou shall not kill,” it applies to innocent persons. The Church teaching has not changed. Self defense, just war, the death penalty, etc, do not contradict the Fifth Commandment.

The crusades were not an example of using religion to justify violence ? Thou shalt not kill only applies to the innocent? (Who gets to decide who is innocent?)

That is correct. Religion cannot condemn violence. The Church never condemn violence.

The crusade was a defensive means to protect Christian pilgrims going the Holy City. Um, I’m not so sure which Pope support the death penalty? I hardly think any Pope ever declare those infallible. Name a Pope who did, and I like to know what document. The entire document.

The Pope is right; religion cannot be an excuse for violence. Muslim extremist have distorted Religion to justify their so called Holy War.

The crusades were defensive? Really? All of them, I mean arguably the first, but all of them?

Sometimes we have to face facts and admit that there are uncomfortable things in our own past. We lose our intellectual integrity if we do not. The Church has condoned the use of violence as a means to achieve ends in the past. This violence was motivated by secular events, but did use religion as a justifier. The Church doesn’t do that anymore.