I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian? #2

[Doxiemom]

I hope not too!

Can you explain how it was that you accepted a dispensationalist view of these writings, rather than the Catholic view?

The most important item for me is the nation of israel and specifically jerusalem.

If i have come to accept that Jesus is exactly Who He says He is, then , not only must He have fullfilled , to precision, all prophecy in the Old Testament, I must accept all that is written exactly about what is to come. Most especially the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John.

When Israel was reborn in one day, that set into motion the most exciting period of fulfillment of prophecy since Jesus was born.

I am far from a scholar, and i make mistakes but I have read many items comparing the Jewish feasts to the different dispensation ages and they make absolute sense.

In addition, I love the comparison of the rapture to the calling of the bride to the bridegroom’s home by the father.

I do not, however, think that to accept any of theses views is a necessity for salvation.
.

 

[dianaiad]

I am not a Catholic because I don’t believe all the claims of Catholicism. I do believe in the claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I think that, when all the answers are boiled down, they all say pretty much the same thing I just did; just substitute the name of whatever belief system they hold for mine, and there you have it.

 

[Protestant101]

I am not a Catholic because I am a Friend. In the Society of Friends I have found a faith tradtion that to me reflects the true message of the gospel of Jesus. I do not believe the Church is an institution but a living people, joined to Christ by grace through faith.

The message of the gospel is freedom from the requirements of “ritual cleansings” and “rites”. Through Christ I partake of the benefits of his Priesthood…I need no priest or minister to perform rituals or rites on or for my behalf…all ritual requirements have been fulfilled in Christ. Rites and rituals do not bestow grace…the work of the Holy Spirit is the bestower of grace and mercy and regeneration.

In the Gospel I do not have to place my trust in the teachings of the Society of Friends…the teachings of the Society is a tool…I have direct and unmediated access to God…no priest or minister need “offer” anything to God in my behalf. I need to perform or participate in any ritual observance to be recipient of His grace and mercy. I need no “priest” to stand in for Christ.

Putting my trust in an institution to “tell me the correct thing to believe” is a foreign concept to me. It is beyond me to place my trust in any human organization no matter what their claim for themselves is. No human organization is the sole dispenser of Truth nor is it the “preserver and teacher of Truth”.

Truth is something we live…it is not a set of beliefs, rituals or dogmas. While I do accept that ritual and creeds CAN at best be “shadowy” vehicles of Truth that CAN lead us into a deeper understanding of the Holy Mystery of God’s love and mercy through Christ.

Through corporate worship I have experienced the Holy Presence in our midst as the Risen Christ has moved among us…teaching us Himself on what it means to be His disciple…“He has showed you O man what is good, and what the Lord requires of you, do justice, show mercy and walk humbly with your God.”

I have found the tools in the Society of Friends to do “what is required of me”.

I do not accept the pious history which the Catholic church claims for itself…it’s historical development was mostly political expediancy…not divine intervention or establishment.

Your philosophy is quite odd, in consideration of Bible truth where God says that the church is “the pillar and the ground of truth.” It appears from the Bible that God does have a denominated people - of course there are arguments as to which ones; but you cannot esape the fact; and neither are you an island unto yourself. If you say you don’t need anybody; then how can you be anybody’s “Friend?”

 

[guanophore]

I do not believe the Church is an institution but a living people, joined to Christ by grace through faith.

How do you see those two being different, or contradictory?

The message of the gospel is freedom from the requirements of “ritual cleansings” and “rites”.

Can you define these terms?

Through Christ I partake of the benefits of his Priesthood…I need no priest or minister to perform rituals or rites on or for my behalf…all ritual requirements have been fulfilled in Christ. Rites and rituals do not bestow grace…the work of the Holy Spirit is the bestower of grace and mercy and regeneration.

Do you believe that God ever works grace through a ritual? Not sure what you mean by “rite” so cannot be sure how to ask about that.

Putting my trust in an institution to “tell me the correct thing to believe” is a foreign concept to me.

Have you ever studied the early heresies?

**

It is beyond me to place my trust in any human organization no matter what their claim for themselves is. No human organization is the sole dispenser of Truth nor is it the “preserver and teacher of Truth”.**

What would lead you to believe that the Church founded by Christ is a “human organization”? How can anything of which Christ is the Head be of human origin?

Publisher:

Truth is something we live…it is not a set of beliefs, rituals or dogmas.

How do you see these as separate or contradictory?

While I do accept that ritual and creeds CAN at best be "shadowy" vehicles of Truth that CAN lead us into a deeper understanding of the Holy Mystery of God's love and mercy through Christ.

What do you mean by “shadowy”?

I think in this statement you are answering affirmatively to my question above about the possibility of God working grace throug ritual.

I do not accept the pious history which the Catholic church claims for itself…it’s historical development was mostly political expediancy…not divine intervention or establishment.

What kind of study have you done of the history?

 

[Australis]

Hey,

I was a protestant before and converted to catholicsm in 2005 when i was 15.

The main reason I converted was because my protestant “church” was just a hall with chairs and then my friends took me to a catholic church and I was just amazed…then i instantly converted without thinking twice and I didn’t even know what catholics believed in or anything, sure I took a 8 week course but I was mostly sleeping through it.

All this tells me is your reasons for converting were superficial.

 

[Dokimas]

Hi P101!
May I first say GOD BLESS YOU! You have been saved from drugs the mercy of the Lord.
I can assure you that as a “Cradle Catholic” there are very few who look down on other Christians who believe in Jesus. Those who do are not really Church participants in my opinion. We as Catholic’s are obliged to defend the Magisterium, but in no way have license to attack others. You can’t be Un-Christian in your defense of Christianity. I know many Baptist and a few Evangelicals, and they are good Christian people. We are all Pro-Life, help the poor and are Christian witness’s, who believe that Jesus is our Saviour.
We have different opinions on some issues, but the “core” Christainan values are the same. People from different Christain denominations will enjoy the Kingdom of Heaven one day…if we are good. God Bless!

As a non-catholic Christian, this is very refreshing. You’re a catholic that I’d be glad to call friend and go arm-in-arm with taking the Gospel to a lost and dieing world.

God bless you.

I hope you don’t get ‘persecuted’ by some here for these kind and gracious words.

 

[Dokimas]

Sometimes I have run into a meaness of spirit with certain jack Chick types of non-catholics. I simply do not want to sit in a church and hear such ugliness.

But there are certain items of catholicism that i cannot agree with.

I am also convinced that there will be a rapture. There will be a tribulation. There will be a Second Coming as described by the prophets. There will be a 1000 year reign of Christ from jerusalem. And Satan will be loosed again and finally thrown into a lake of Fire.

For all this is Written.

i go to the cathiolic church because it is my church and i will continue to do so until the day God moves within my heart to go elsewhere. Which i hope never happens.

I’m with you: I can’t stand the point of view of the ‘chick’ types. There are some here, IMO, that have a ‘chick’ type style only they are on the catholic side of things. IMO, both extremes do little to nothing for the Gospel of Jesus.

Glad to have you as a sibbling IN Christ.

 

[Dokimas]

The most important item for me is the nation of israel and specifically jerusalem.

If i have come to accept that Jesus is exactly Who He says He is, then , not only must He have fullfilled , to precision, all prophecy in the Old Testament, I must accept all that is written exactly about what is to come. Most especially the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John.

When Israel was reborn in one day, that set into motion the most exciting period of fulfillment of prophecy since Jesus was born.

I am far from a scholar, and i make mistakes but I have read many items comparing the Jewish feasts to the different dispensation ages and they make absolute sense.

In addition, I love the comparison of the rapture to the calling of the bride to the bridegroom’s home by the father.

I do not, however, think that to accept any of theses views is a necessity for salvation.
.

Makes sense to me. Have you read anything about the Jewish tradition of marriage the no doubt Joseph and Mary experienced? It’s quite amazing. It ties in so many NT verses of us being the Bride of Christ and Jesus going to prepare a place for us. WOW and praise be to God.

 

[Dokimas]

Your philosophy is quite odd, in consideration of Bible truth where God says that the church is “the pillar and the ground of truth.” It appears from the Bible that God does have a denominated people - of course there are arguments as to which ones; but you cannot esape the fact; and neither are you an island unto yourself. If you say you don’t need anybody; then how can you be anybody’s “Friend?”

Publisher wrote:

[SIGN]Through **corporate worship **I have experienced the Holy Presence in **our midst **as the Risen Christ has moved among us…teaching us Himself on what it means to be His disciple…“He has showed you O man what is good, and what the Lord requires of you, do justice, show mercy and walk humbly with your God.”[/SIGN]

In light of the quote from Publisher, I’m not sure you understood her/his position. This tells me the church is very important. The church being ALL true believers, not a ‘church’ group.

 

[Dokimas]

How do you see those two being different, or contradictory?

Can you define these terms?

Do you believe that God ever works grace through a ritual? Not sure what you mean by “rite” so cannot be sure how to ask about that.

Have you ever studied the early heresies?

**

What would lead you to believe that the Church founded by Christ is a “human organization”? How can anything of which Christ is the Head be of human origin?

How do you see these as separate or contradictory?

What do you mean by “shadowy”?

I think in this statement you are answering affirmatively to my question above about the possibility of God working grace throug ritual.

What kind of study have you done of the history?**

These are sweet questions. There’s not one statement of telling us what Publisher meant by her/his understanding. How refreshing and I hope it stays this way!!! Your other tactic, while most often incorrect, divides instead of draws to Christ, IMO.

 

[guanophore]

These are sweet questions. There’s not one statement of telling us what Publisher meant by her/his understanding. How refreshing and I hope it stays this way!!! Your other tactic, while most often incorrect, divides instead of draws to Christ, IMO.

Unity is not fostered by pretending the Truth is not important, Doki.

Some of your assertions rest upon the the premise that Jesus did not keep His promises to His Church.

It is only right to recognize that these are the premises you are using. Perhaps there is a 'sweeter" way to point out that you seem to believe that she shortcomings of man are stronger than the promises of God. If anyone can help me with that, I am ready to learn.

Jesus promised to lead His Church into all Truth. You believe that He stood by watching while they walked down the road of error.

Catholics believe that He loves His Bride so much that he would allow lots to hang in the air if that is what it would take to lead them into all truth.

 

[Dokimas]

Unity is not fostered by pretending the Truth is not important, Doki.

Correct.

Some of your assertions rest upon the the premise that Jesus did not keep His promises to His Church.

 

[eddy714]

Correct.

 

[eddy714]

I am not a Catholic because I don’t believe all the claims of Catholicism. I do believe in the claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I think that, when all the answers are boiled down, they all say pretty much the same thing I just did; just substitute the name of whatever belief system they hold for mine, and there you have it.

So peter was actually an LDS?

 

[Dokimas]

Dokimas;6854149:

The Gates of hell shall not prevail and never will let that be in the conscience of those men and let God judge them and give them there proper verdict.

Why did God let Martin Luther form his own belief or beliefs and the people who followed them?

Plain and simple is this, you follow sola scrpitura when Jesus gave traditions and his church didn’t he?

Please check out Tim 3 14:15

& Tes 2 15

You claim to be Christian in your title but do you par take in his supper of the Eucharist?

Do you go to the church that he established and follow his commandments?

Or do you follow Martin Luther or fallible men that if you read the bible it warns us about them? Col 2 8

You think if Jesus where to come to you 1 day and tell you to go to the church that he established where would you actually take him?

I find it best not to judge anyone’s relationship with Jesus based on what church they go to. I’m not anyones judge. That’s God’s job.

 

[Doxiemom]

Makes sense to me. Have you read anything about the Jewish tradition of marriage the no doubt Joseph and Mary experienced? It’s quite amazing. It ties in so many NT verses of us being the Bride of Christ and Jesus going to prepare a place for us. WOW and praise be to God.

I have read a lot ( need to read more).

So much of God’s Word is really about marriage.

We, Christians, of course, are the Bride of the Bridegroom

but

the people Israel are the spouse of God, the Father

Even the 'last trump" is that of the father blowing the horn to call the bride to come , prepared for her husband, to the room which has been prepared for the couple. The room which is built within the father’s house.

I think we can agree on a whole lot of things, If not, i pray i can learn from you

 

[guanophore]

Incorrect

If Jesus promised to lead the Church into all Truth, and immediately he abandoned them,left them orphans, and failed to guide them, then He did not keep His promises.
He told them He would be with them till the end of the Age, yet you assert He abandoned them when they cast lots!

The more you try the less you correctly represent what I say.

I understand that, from your point of view, the weakness of man is what caused the 'mistakes" of the Apostles. You assert that they did not listen to Him, and got out of order, acting without His guidance.

Incorrect understanding of my position.

When I point out that, for your assertion to be true, Jesus had to abandon HIs promises, you say, “no, God does guide, people just don’t listen”. That means that God’s guidance is weaker than the rebellion of men. It also means that NONE of those in the upper room in prayer after the resurrection, NONE of the Apsostles, and NONE of those disciples present had any inclination to seek or to hear God’s will. ALL of them must have been so focused on themselves, the world,the flesh, and the devil that they could nto “hear” God telling them they were making a mistake.

I keep trying to help but you continue to refuse help.

I am open to alternatives. It is preposterous in my view for Jesus to abandon His promises. It is equally preposterous that the weakness of men is stronger than His ability to reveal His will. I also can’t imagine that there was not at least one person among them that was willing to listen to God.

Let’s look at the end of what you are saying. Let’s do so by asking the logical question based on your assumptions. Why did Jesus stand by and let the CC ordain men that He knew would be pedophiles?

Matthias was not a pedophile, Dokimas. They prayed and asked God to reveal who He had chosen. The lot fell to Matthias. Any of the Apostles could still (and some did) sin after they were ordained. God’s choice of a person does not prevent them from sinning. God chose Judas, though He knew He would sin. The issue here is how God chooses. You deny that God chose Matthias.

Again using the logical conclusion of your assertion: Jesus didn’t love the CC to keep it from the present day scandals of sex abuse in the CC clergy.

Actually, the opposite. Jesus loves His Holy Bride, the Church, so much that He has been able to preserve her from the scandals and abuse of sinful men who abandon His teachings that are infallibly preserved in her.

You tend to bring up this issue when you are desperate, Dokimas. The actions of sinful men in this generation has absolutely no bearing on whether the HS was acting through the Apostles when they chose Matthias.

 

[dianaiad]

So peter was actually an LDS?

Well, except for the 'Latter-day" part, Yes, pretty much.

 

[cheese_sdc]

I don’t get it…if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?

Why do you have to “get it”? Be content to live your life, and be content to let others live their lives.

 

[catholicarchie]

eddy714;6854430:

I find it best not to judge anyone’s relationship with Jesus based on what church they go to. I’m not anyones judge. That’s God’s job.

i must say, the first order in having a relationship with Jesus is understanding who Jesus is.
Unfortunately many claim relationships with Jesus, even those who reject his Divinity.

Now if you will argue that you believe his Divinity, a full relationship with Jesus would naturally involve all his teachings which he left to his Church, the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.