Just for the record, I do not. This is why it is so important to read the scriptures in the light of the beliefs of those who wrote them. They can be interpreted in a variety of ways (as the great plethora of denominations proves) and all of them can be defended according what is “in the passage”.
There is some truth to that. There were some wolves among the sheep, like Judas, though he was a disciple, He was not one if faith with the rest. Those that were not Catholic in faith were called heretics or schismatics. They were those who “went out from among us, but were not of us”. The Church was exclusively Catholic until 1054 when the schisms and separations began to fracture the Body.
Yes. Everything that is Catholic that has been retained in the Protestant ecclesial communites does, indeed, resemble the early church.
I know that there are many catholics who hate the idea of a sinner’s prayer and altar calls, but based on altar calls that I have witnessed, Peter held one in Acts 2:38He exhorted the crowd to repent, turn back to God for forgiveness of sins, and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, and they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit!
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Yes. they are a fine tradition. However, you will notice that there was no altar involved when Peter made the call. For the Early church, the altar was the place of sacrifice, and those who were called to it were only those who had been initiated through baptism.
Evangelism should be practiced everywhere except during the Mass.
1beleevr;6543223:
Yes, I think you are right about this.
There is only ONE CHURCH, 1beleevr. All those who are saved are members of it. The gift is not restricted, but the boundaries of the Church contain only that which God has appointed.
While this is a deficient view of the Church, it does contain valid elements. It is what is lacking in your description, though, that separates us. You have not received the Church of the Apostles, but that of a “different gospel” that falls short.
This is how Catholics met for 300 years, until the Edict of Milan. It is not where the believers meet that makes them a valid church, but their unity with the bishop appointed by the apostles.
Sure. What constitutes “proof”. We can’t use the Bible, because it is, itself, a product of Catholic Sacred Tradition from the Apostles. We can’t use the thing itself to prove itself. What else will you accept?
Many of the Jewish priests became believers. Why would they stop wearing the clothing God had ordained for them?
You can see in the passages cited that the priesthood referred to there is eternal. Jesus is the fulfillment of that eternal priesthood. Those who are called into the priesthood are united into His priesthood (there is only one). Where does it say they are NOT allowed to wear ceremonially clothing?
I think it is very important to use the scriptures in prayer.
The prayers germain to the Lord’s Supper, and the remainder of the liturgy before and after it, I imagine. Why quibble on this point? You have rejected the prayers of the Apostles, because you did not receive them through the Apostolic Succession. is that a problem? You pray from scripture. that is a good thing.
The prayers you did not receive are the Prayers of the Apostles mentioned in the book of Acts. These prayers are preserved through the Apostolic Succession, from which you were separated 500 years ago during the Reformation. They include the Liturgy of the Hours and the Divine Liturgy (Mass).
I beleive this is true for you, because you cannot accept even the evidence that you are holding in your hand.
Scripture was never intended to contain the full revelation of God, before that was written, or after. Scripture was protected and canonized based upon those Sacred Tradtitions that the Apostles commanded be kept. What is it in that passage that makes you think those Traditions were no longer valid when some of them were written down?
No, we commend your faith. We challenge the heresies by which it is contaminated.
Actually, I think the opposite is true. The problems have been created by people abandoning the Apostolic command to hold fast to the Traditions, and attempting to extrapolate the meaning of the Scriptures in separation from the faith of those who penned them.
This is a good thing.
No. Even a person with the finest lineage can demonstrate a rotton character. That does not mean that the lineage is unimportant, it just means that anyone can abandon the faith and live a life of sin, and their lineage does not excuse them.
First and foremost, a praise report; my wife’s biopsy was benign! :thumbsup:Hallelujah, and thank you Jesus! Now, I’m glad that you used the word, “many”, and not ALL, when referring to Protestants. It would be like me saying that all catholics have alcohol issues(when really, just a handful that I know). I am pro-life, and I attend church every week, serve God inbetween, and believe in confessing my sins!(just not to a priest, well maybe the High Priest, Jesus.And you are right, on many issues, noncatholics do disagree, but the one thing they do all agree on is that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, born of a virgin, died on the Cross, and three days later rose from the dead.Personally, I believe that birth control is a personal issue, and since I cannot find it in the Bible, other than “go forth and multiply,” it is a moot point. Which post had those questions you so desparately want answered?
The “Seat of Moses” is the position of authority where those sit who are given responsibility by God to feed and care for the flock. The Seat of Moses was to judge how the precepts of the Law were to be applied to every day life.
It will be of little value to have any discussion apart from the Church founded by Christ. His Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth! Why would we have a discussion about theology apart from the pillar and foundation of the Truth?
You have to do what is right for your health, of course. This is a Catholic forum, so the topic is “Catholic Answers”. If you did not come here for those, then you are probably in the wrong place anyway. Perhaps you need to go to CARM, or a website that will not pose anything Catholic?
This statement does not make any sense. Since the Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth, then the Church cannot be separated from the Truth. When someone abandons the Truth, they have separated themselves from the Church. The Apostles called these persons “wolves”, “tares”, “heretics” and other choice terms.
Really?! If that is true,then you are Catholic!
Before the Edict of Milan in 325, it was illegal to be a Christian. There were many killed for this "crime’.
Since Jesus transferred the seat of MOses to the Apostles, it was their duty, and that of their successors, to interpret that which was written and preached for consistency with the Gospel.
From the link, it would appear he is embracing the beliefs of a medieval heretical sect.
LOL!
I wish this were true, but the opposite is actualy true. People have been doing this since the Scriptures were penned.
Really? Does that mean when you read Acts, you do not see any disagreement happening? How do you suppose the Apostolic Council arrived at the conclusion “it seemed right to the HS, and to us”?
This is also a false statement for many reasons. The bible does not “teach” (that is an activity that requires a person) and there are hundreds of Fundamentalist groups that disagree, precisely BECAUSE scripture is not clear on everything!
So we are back to the original problem, are we not? Who decides when the teachings are “misapplied”? You have rejected the authority appointed by Christ, and placed yourself in the Seat of Moses. So who is to know when you are not “over reaching”?
You would have to, otherwise, you would have to accept that you are out of order.
And who determines “the right mix”?
No, the Catholic Church is the HOly Bride of Christ, purified by His Blood. She is sanctified, and set apart, and cannot fall into error. She cannot commit such sins.
Jesus identifies Himself completely with His Holy Bride, the Church.
Act 9:31 So the church throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria had peace, being edified; and, walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, was multiplied.
This is certainly ideal. However, if that were the case, there would never have been 12 Apostles! All of them exhibited character flaws, abandoning Him at the trial not the least.
And who decides on the “character” and the “failure”? You see, no matter which direction you go, you are making yourself the Seat of Moses.
Well, you don’t have it, because your spiritual ancestors separated themselves from it about 1200 years ago it appears. Have you ever considered that this might actually exist, and that you did not know about it?
Interesting that it says the opposite about itself. One would think that, if it contained everything needed, it would say this about itself, don’t you think?
Certainly not to the one who refuses the evidence.
Have you ever considered investigating this?
Actually, it is the other way around. We have the Word made more sure, protected from error by His HS. Since you reject that Divine protection, then you are left to every wind. of doctrine.
No authority issues here, thank you very much! And I may be wrong(usually am when it comes to catholics), but when ANYONE does anything, “religiously”(no pun intended), to me it becomes a ritual, or a habit! And I was trying to see if anyone else could see that,“He never leaves His people without a way to get back to Him,” from 2Samuel 14:14, is a reference to Jesus! Did God create "rituals, or laws to govern behavior? Was He trying to make them obedient? Are the rituals of the cc, God ordained, or man ordained?Do you really see anything wrong with people confessing their sins to God(Hebrews 4:16)? Is there a need to compel people to go to confession every week! There are many of us who don’t believe that mortal men can forgive sins. Calling the pope holy father is more likely a rule, rather than a ritual, but then calling him that on a regular basis would be like a ritual! and confession, and forgiveness, by the awesome grace of God, is a beautiful thing! To tell you the truth, I am on a fast, as i type this reply! Two days without food, praying without ceasing, and doing His will! But I don’t necessarily fast every week! Are catholics strongly encouraged to fast from meat on Friday, or compelled to? And, please understand that we are not condemning you for doing these thngs, just saying that we don’t believe in themHow is fasting a “ritual”? Don’t you ever fast?
It seems that you think this great avenue of God’s grace is some sort of empty “procedure” or whatever you mean by “ritual”. I get the sense that you believe these spiritual practices are empty of God’s love and grace. I think they are for the faithless. I myself went thru rituals with an empty heart for many years. The problem was not with the ritual, it was with my heart.
The Rosary can be considered a “ritual” prayer, because it it practiced in a similar way over and over. I am not sure if that is what you mean by ritual. Perhaps you believe that doing something the same way more than once, invalidates it? I would be curious to know why you think that God created so much ritual for the Israelites.
Do you imagine this is a ritual, or a rule?
You seem to feel that having those perfected forever in the faith available to help with their prayers and guidance is something objectionable. I don’t understand that at all. Scripture is clear that the effectual fervent prayre of the righteous avails much. These are forever guarded by Him, and can no longer be touched by sins.
Why would I WANT to read it outside of it’s context?
Why would I want to interpret it apart from what the HS has already revealed to the Church?
To me it is a precursor to the NT idea that God desires all to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth. Salvation has always been by grace, through faith. Christ is the expiation for the world, and there is no name under heaven by which we may be saved. Christ is God’s “devised method” by which we can enter heaven.
And, I personally do not feel the NEED to have Mary pray for me. I do believe in and practice intercessory prayer.This is a false statement. All those who depart from the Apostolic faith are further and further from salvation.
A lot of them have no idea where the bible came from.
I don’t see that a person “feels” a need for a spiritual grace is equivalent to their actual need. Most people don’t “feel a need” for salvation,e ither, but they still need it. The Apostolic command is to “confess your sins to one another, that you may be healed”. It does not say wait till you “feel” the need.
No, beleevr, they are not assumptions. They are testified to in the Holy Scripture, and they have been handed down faithfully through the Apostolic Succession.They have been preserved infallibly by the HS.All of these are assumptions on the part of the catholic church; who expect us to believe it because they said so! Jesus started His church, a church for all believers!
Why is that necessarily a problem?
This is the question I am asking you. If God is so opposed to ritual, why did He create so much of it?
There are some of both.
For some reason you think that, because the priest is present, people do not confess directly to God. Instead of seeing the minister of God as an agent of His grace, you perceive him as a “blockage”. You do the same with intercessory prayer. I think it reflects a deficient understanding of the Church.
I am interested to see how you dispense with the scripture.
I am not sure it is a “rule” either. More like a custom. In the East, they follow different customs.
It depends upon the discipline of their Rite.
Oh, I think you have done this since you got here.
It is ok. I am sure she is praying for you whether you are aware of your "need’ or not.
Noncatholic Christians are Christians, only lacking the title of catholic! And just because we don’t sit in a confession box once a week, or however frequent is required, does not mean that we do not confess our sins
We believe in 1John 1:9, which tells us that God will forgive our sins if we confess them to Him. And I cannot in good conscience call anyone mortal, Holy Father; this is God’s domain! Yes, there are godly men in my life, but I do’nt call them Holy Father. I respect the pope, but he is just the leader of the catholic church!Praise God for your wife. Praise His Holy name:thumbsup: