I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

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So here’s the thing, Larkin. Even though you haven’t articulated this, you believe that it’s always right to follow one’s conscience.
No, I don’t think this and have never stated so. I don’t know where you get this.
You will not be able to provide any scenario in which it would be morally right to disobey one’s conscience.
I am not interested in providing an example of this. I don’t know why I should. Should you?
Thus, one’s conscience is one’s moral authority
. No. I have never argued this as an absolute. If OFTEN is so, but not ALWAYS.
That is the basis for Catholic morality. That is your basis, too, although you haven’t articulated it that way…(unless you can provide me with even one example in which it would be the morally correct thing to do to disobey your conscience.)
I have no problem with sharing some ethics with Catholics, or other Christians, or followers of other faiths. I think most of us share the same basic values, anyway.
 
My point is to get you to see that you have not fully thought out your paradigm that there is no absolute moral truth.

You really do believe that there is an absolute moral truth.
What?

What absolute moral truth do I believe in? I can’t imagine, but can you be more specific, please, and articulate it for me? I have never done so myself, but I am curious now.
 
What?

What absolute moral truth do I believe in? I can’t imagine, but can you be more specific, please, and articulate it for me? I have never done so myself, but I am curious now.
That we must always follow our conscience; i.e. our conscience is our moral authority.

Unless you can provide me an example–*any scenario–*in which you believe it is moral to disobey one’s conscience.

If you cannot, then you believe that it is always the morally correct thing to do to obey one’s conscience.
 
The reason I am not 100% Catholic is because of some of the posts from some.
How would the comments of a couple of lay Catholics here at CAF, have an impact on any Christian truth…it is either true or it isn’t. If everybody based their membership in any particular religion, on the behavior or comments of a few members of that religion or denomination, then there would be no religion in this world and no God, in anybody’s life. We can all find something that is disagreeable, about a few members of any religion or denomination. Is there anything in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that you disagree with?
 
That we must always follow our conscience; i.e. our conscience is our moral authority.

Unless you can provide me an example–*any scenario–*in which you believe it is moral to disobey one’s conscience.

If you cannot, then you believe that it is always the morally correct thing to do to obey one’s conscience.
Hardly!

Where do your "must"s come from in stating what I think? You are kind of weird how you try to speak for me, when I have never made any such claim myself.

Once again, you are allowing only an either/or scenario, which is a fallacy of logic.

I believe that the best behavior is a combination of one’s own conscience informed by the morality and historical and artistic and cultural history of one’s society. There is no such thing as ONLY one’s conscience or ONLY the cultural values. Put another way, I object to the claim that EITHER one follows the cultural mores OR one must follow one’s conscience. One can, of course, find ways to combine both or ways to avoid both.

For the record, I don’t think that one “must” ever do anything, except exist and die…eventually.
 
What?

What absolute moral truth do I believe in? I can’t imagine, but can you be more specific, please, and articulate it for me? I have never done so myself, but I am curious now.
Here’s some more absolute moral truths you also believe in:
-Truth is good not evil
-Freedom is good not evil
-Equality is good not evil
-Charity is good not evil
-Justice is good not evil

-Murder is evil not good
-Rape is evil not good
-Treason is evil not good

Oh, and I’m certain you believe in the Golden Rule. That’s a moral absolute.
 
I believe that the **best behavior **is a combination of one’s own conscience informed by the morality and historical and artistic and cultural history of one’s society.
What standard do you use to make the determination that this conclusion is “best” and others are not?

God bless
 
This one,

Have you read about the Reformation? ?
Mt.7:1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2. For the same way you judge others, you will be judged,
with the same measure you use , it will be measured unto you."
Be careful,

God bless you,
bluelake

You keep making absolutes. You keep proclaiming things to be true. 🤷

Again, if* you *don’t even believe that could be speaking a truth, why should anyone listen to you?

I continue to engage you in dialogue because I want you to really think your paradigm through–to see how it falls apart in the face of logic and reason. And to see that there’s another answer that you dismissed in your youth and ought to re-consider now.
 
What?

What absolute moral truth do I believe in? I can’t imagine, but can you be more specific, please, and articulate it for me? I have never done so myself, but I am curious now.
And here’s another argument that you believe in absolute moral truths: the fact that you post your thoughts here.

Otherwise, if there’s no truth all we’re doing here is discussing subjectivities like,
PR:: “I feel cold”
Larkin: “No! I feel hot”

Clearly, a discussion about subjective data is ludicrous.

If you don’t believe in a moral truth then your posts have as much meaning as your saying, “I feel hot.” 🤷
 
What standard do you use to make the determination that this conclusion is “best” and others are not?

God bless
The “combination” I described above in that same post. It’s how we all operate. Just some of us move religion more centrally. Others, the teachings of their parents. Others, something else…
 
And here’s another argument that you believe in absolute moral truths: the fact that you post your thoughts here.

Otherwise, if there’s no truth all we’re doing here is discussing subjectivities like,
PR:: “I feel cold”
Larkin: “No! I feel hot”

Clearly, a discussion about subjective data is ludicrous.

If you don’t believe in a moral truth then your posts have as much meaning as your saying, “I feel hot.” 🤷
So, when someone asks, “Did you have a good day?” you consider that a waste of time?

So, when I post “I don’t believe that there are moral absolutes” your response is “When you post that here you make clear that you believe that there are moral absolutes because no one would post here if they did not believe in moral absolutes.”

HAHAHA
 
Here’s some more absolute moral truths you also believe in:
-Truth is good not evil
-Freedom is good not evil
-Equality is good not evil
-Charity is good not evil
-Justice is good not evil

-Murder is evil not good
-Rape is evil not good
-Treason is evil not good

Oh, and I’m certain you believe in the Golden Rule. That’s a moral absolute.
Nope.

I would never state any of those things, and have never. There are exceptions to each of those absolute claims.
 
The “combination” I described above in that same post. It’s how we all operate. Just some of us move religion more centrally. Others, the teachings of their parents. Others, something else…
Setting aside the fact that you used a subjective standard to support a subjective statement; 😉 your standard is subjective then? It being subjective then your thinking it “best” is also subjective? That is it best for you and not necessarily best for everyone? Or do you believe this “combination” is an absolute?

God bless
 
Hardly!

Where do your "must"s come from in stating what I think? You are kind of weird how you try to speak for me, when I have never made any such claim myself.

Once again, you are allowing only an either/or scenario, which is a fallacy of logic.

I believe that the best behavior is a combination of one’s own conscience informed by the morality and historical and artistic and cultural history of one’s society. There is no such thing as ONLY one’s conscience or ONLY the cultural values. Put another way, I object to the claim that EITHER one follows the cultural mores OR one must follow one’s conscience. One can, of course, find ways to combine both or ways to avoid both.

For the record, I don’t think that one “must” ever do anything, except exist and die…eventually.
Just repeating this, because it is where I stated what I believe about the best approach to morality.
 
Setting aside the fact that you used a subjective standard to support a subjective statement; 😉 your standard is subjective then? It being subjective then your thinking it “best” is also subjective? That is it best for you and not necessarily best for everyone? Or do you believe this “combination” is an absolute?

God bless
It is subjective, like ALL morality (which exists only in the minds of sentient beings), not anywhere else in the universe (that we have found).
 
It is subjective, like ALL morality (which exists only in the minds of sentient beings), not anywhere else in the universe (that we have found).
Great okay now we are getting somewhere.

Do you believe the holocaust was absolutely evil? Or do you believe that it was only evil in certain communities where their “combinations” would lead them to believe it was evil and therefore could have been good considering other “combinations”?

God bless
 
Or this one: “I am tiring of these claims that any declarative sentence is an ‘absolute claim.’”
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
larkin you made the claim that all absolutes have an exception which is in fact an absolute claim. If you are going to be a skeptic why not be the ultimate skeptic? 😉

God bless
 
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