I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

[JRKH]

Maybe they don’t like the Pope… The current one really scares me. And he makes comments that can be summed up as ‘I tolerate other views, but only if they are the same as mine.’

I’m sorry that the Holy Father frightens you.
Do you have examples of the comments you mention?
I don’t want to derail this thread, but am curious.

If you think it mught be too derailing perhaps a new thread…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

:twocents:

I have read a few non-Catholic responses to this thread and a lot of them mentioned Mother Mary as a reason why they wouldn’t join the CC. I can only say that if it weren’t for her intercession…well, nevermind.
Catholics, have we really given them such a bad impression of our Mother??

That’s what I’d like to know.
LFL

In a word - Yes - I think we have.
Not directly or even intentionally but yes we have given our seperated brothers a bad impression of the Blessed Mother AND other teachings.

Much of this is not the fault of us today, whether catholic or protestant, but rather the result of ideas developed long ago and also misinformation passed from generation to generation.
The use of statues gives the wrong impression to those taught that statues are not allowed.
Prayers to saints gives the wrong impression to those taught that we should pray only to the Father through Jesus.

As to our lady, it seems that, it isn’t just that we honor her, but that there are dogmatic teachings that catholics must accept. We may not reject these teachings known as the “Marion Dogma’s”. If these teachings were not dogma’s,but instead were pious teachings we were free to accept or reject, then Mary would be less of an issue for non-catholics.

Peace
James

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

In a word - Yes - I think we have.
Not directly or even intentionally but yes we have given our seperated brothers a bad impression of the Blessed Mother AND other teachings.

Much of this is not the fault of us today, whether catholic or protestant, but rather the result of ideas developed long ago and also misinformation passed from generation to generation.
The use of statues gives the wrong impression to those taught that statues are not allowed.
Prayers to saints gives the wrong impression to those taught that we should pray only to the Father through Jesus.

As to our lady, it seems that, it isn’t just that we honor her, but that there are dogmatic teachings that catholics must accept. We may not reject these teachings known as the “Marion Dogma’s”. If these teachings were not dogma’s,but instead were pious teachings we were free to accept or reject, then Mary would be less of an issue for non-catholics.

Peace
James

Yes this really sums it up well, I wouldnt say it is Mary that is disliked but rather her treatment.

 

[JRKH]

Yes this really sums it up well, I wouldnt say it is Mary that is disliked but rather her treatment.

Most of the testimonies I have heard from converts seems to indicate that, once they were convicted of the other truths of The Church, Mary became less of an issue for them.

Peace
James

 

[gcnuss]

Most of the testimonies I have heard from converts seems to indicate that, once they were convicted of the other truths of The Church, Mary became less of an issue for them.

James,

Although I am not a convert and likely will never be (but who knows what the Holy Spirit has in store for me?), Mary is not a big issue. Marian doctrines/dogmas are another story. I don’t see belief in the Immaculate Conception, Mary’s perpetual virginity, and the Assumption as requisite for being a faithful Christian. I don’t necessarily reject these teachings, but they don’t add to nor detract from my faith in Jesus Christ. And, I do celebrate Mary as the Mother of God, the Theotokos, and the epitome of faith and obedience.

Just a couple of thoughts.

 

[JRKH]

James,

Although I am not a convert and likely will never be (but who knows what the Holy Spirit has in store for me?), Mary is not a big issue. Marian doctrines/dogmas are another story. I don’t see belief in the Immaculate Conception, Mary’s perpetual virginity, and the Assumption as requisite for being a faithful Christian. I don’t necessarily reject these teachings, but they don’t add to nor detract from my faith in Jesus Christ. And, I do celebrate Mary as the Mother of God, the Theotokos, and the epitome of faith and obedience.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Thank you for reenforcing my point.

I, on the other hand, accept the Marion Dogmas, not because of any deep theological understanding of them but because I accept The Church’s authority to declare them.
Whether Mary was or was not “Immaculately Conceived”, or remained a “perpetual virgin” or the other dogma’s may not directly affect my daily faith walk, but my firm belief in the authority of The Church does directly effect my daily walk.

On the one hand, based on my own understandings, I cannot say that these doctrines are true. On the other hand, and for the same reason, I have no way of saying that these doctrines are false. I simply do not “understand” them any more than I “understand” the trinity, the sacrifice of the cross, transubstantiation or any of a host of other theological subjects.

My acceptance of them is based, not on any requirement for understanding, but rather on my belief that Christ intended for His Church to be "One as (He) and the Father are one… and to accomplish this Christ instituted a Church, a community, with authority to “Bind and Loose”…“Whatever”.

I know that others disagree with this, but I just wanted to explain how I can, on the one hand accept the Marion Doctrines, without understanding them.

peace
James

 

[Proallen]

http://fratres.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/pope-benedict-xvi-blessing-of-the-host.jpg
I don’t get it…if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?
This is a serious question, so please post your reason here… Please, don’t be afraid to voice your opinion and to defend your own particular denomination.
I am not the only Catholic here at CAF, or elsewhere, who wonders and wants to know the answer to this question.
If any Catholics, or any converts to Catholicism here, have any insight to the answer, or possible answer(s) to this question, then please post a response here.
Your thoughts?

Because the Roman church of today is not the Church Christ instituted just before his death. Catholics have much of what the Early Church was, but they are not the same entity. I find it to be much more important to worship with Christians who recognize that God’s people are spread throught all kinds of Christian churches including the Catholic church.

 

[reteeks21]

Because the Roman church of today is not the Church Christ instituted just before his death. Catholics have much of what the Early Church was, but they are not the same entity. I find it to be much more important to worship with Christians who recognize that God’s people are spread throught all kinds of Christian churches including the Catholic church.

Please explain this statement. What did they teach that we don’t?

 

[LindaSK]

:twocents:

I have read a few non-Catholic responses to this thread and a lot of them mentioned Mother Mary as a reason why they wouldn’t join the CC. I can only say that if it weren’t for her intercession…well, nevermind.
Catholics, have we really given them such a bad impression of our Mother??

That’s what I’d like to know.
LFL

It is not a question of giving people “such a bad impression of our Mother” It just seems that sometimes Catholic’s admiration of her seems to border on the extreme. As a convert, Mary is no real stumbling block for me. I accept her, and always have, as the Mother of God. What an awesome responsibility - to give birth to and raise our Savior. I accept the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, and her virginity because I have no doubt that God would and could accord her such graces. In my prayers, I go directly to Christ or to God our Father. For me, Mary is in the company of the Saints, whom I ask to pray for me as I would ask a friend to pray for me. I do not pray to her.

People see the medals and the statues, the hymns and prayers, and the many feast days that focus on Mary. If devotion to her is second to worship of God, then it is in its proper place. Some Catholics do, however, seem to put devotion to Mary above worship to God. It may not be accurate, but, it is an impression that is given. When I see it, I have trouble with it. I see it as a violation of the first commandment. Most have their priorities right, but to someone who does not understand, devotion to Mary may appear to be misplaced. It isn’t a bad impression of Mary, but the impression one may get from those who appear to put Mary above Christ. I would ask that you try to look objectively at the treatment some Catholics do give to Mary, and imagine how it may appear to those on the outside.

Please don’t read this as a criticism, just as an observation from someone who was Protestant most of her life.

 

[JRKH]

Because the Roman church of today is not the Church Christ instituted just before his death. Catholics have much of what the Early Church was, but they are not the same entity. I find it to be much more important to worship with Christians who recognize that God’s people are spread throught all kinds of Christian churches including the Catholic church.

Would you agree then that the “Catholic Church” toay is just as much “The Church Christ established” as any of the other “Christian” Church?

No trap here - just curious

Peace
James

 

[gmcbroom]

JRKH, I do agree with you. However, the protestants and orthodox also have a point. I’m not saying the Catholic positions are wrong. But we tend to be well …over zealous when discussions on faith contradict what we’re taught. Sometime we’re not as ecumenical as we can be. This is unfortunately human nature and an issue Jesus foresaw on atleast 2 ocassions. The first was when he was told of others worshipping him and he said to leave them be even though their ways were clearly different from the Apostles. The second was when he was talking about if your brother is offended by what your doing you should show compassion and not do it so you don’t offend him. I’m sorry I don’t have the exact quotes but those were 2 things brought up in the New testament. In short we should show restraint and compassion when confronted by others actions and sensibilities. This is not easily done even these days. We as Catholics follow the chair of Peter. However, we could be more charitable about the messages we send. That is the message I always got when i was a protestant though admittedly I was never baptised as I saw the minister at that church also do some uncharitable things that eventually drove me from christianity for a time. Its taken faith, prayer, and a good friend to join the Catholic church and even then I’ll be a Maronite Catholic instead of a Roman Catholic. The message is more on God’s mercy than on sins. I like that message. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Proallen]

Would you agree then that the “Catholic Church” toay is just as much “The Church Christ established” as any of the other “Christian” Church?

No trap here - just curious

Peace
James

Again, the Roman church has Early Church elements just as the Orthodox church, the Anglican church and the Lutheran church does.

 

[Proallen]

Please explain this statement. What did they teach that we don’t?

I think it to be the other way around. There are facets of the Roman church that did not exist in the Early Church.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

In a word - Yes - I think we have.
Not directly or even intentionally but yes we have given our seperated brothers a bad impression of the Blessed Mother AND other teachings.

Much of this is not the fault of us today, whether catholic or protestant, but rather the result of ideas developed long ago and also misinformation passed from generation to generation.
The use of statues gives the wrong impression to those taught that statues are not allowed.
Prayers to saints gives the wrong impression to those taught that we should pray only to the Father through Jesus.

As to our lady, it seems that, it isn’t just that we honor her, but that there are dogmatic teachings that catholics must accept. We may not reject these teachings known as the “Marion Dogma’s”. If these teachings were not dogma’s,but instead were pious teachings we were free to accept or reject, then Mary would be less of an issue for non-catholics.

Peace
James

It is not a question of giving people “such a bad impression of our Mother” It just seems that sometimes Catholic’s admiration of her seems to border on the extreme. As a convert, Mary is no real stumbling block for me. I accept her, and always have, as the Mother of God. What an awesome responsibility - to give birth to and raise our Savior. I accept the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, and her virginity because I have no doubt that God would and could accord her such graces. In my prayers, I go directly to Christ or to God our Father. For me, Mary is in the company of the Saints, whom I ask to pray for me as I would ask a friend to pray for me. I do not pray to her.

People see the medals and the statues, the hymns and prayers, and the many feast days that focus on Mary. If devotion to her is second to worship of God, then it is in its proper place. Some Catholics do, however, seem to put devotion to Mary above worship to God. It may not be accurate, but, it is an impression that is given. When I see it, I have trouble with it. I see it as a violation of the first commandment. Most have their priorities right, but to someone who does not understand, devotion to Mary may appear to be misplaced. It isn’t a bad impression of Mary, but the impression one may get from those who appear to put Mary above Christ. I would ask that you try to look objectively at the treatment some Catholics do give to Mary, and imagine how it may appear to those on the outside.

Please don’t read this as a criticism, just as an observation from someone who was Protestant most of her life.

Thank you both for explaining. Unlike either of you, I have been a Catholic my whole life, and so it was hard for me to see the other side of things. You have given me a glimpse of that side and I thank you for it. God Bless.

 

[Dokimas]

:twocents:

I have read a few non-Catholic responses to this thread and a lot of them mentioned Mother Mary as a reason why they wouldn’t join the CC. I can only say that if it weren’t for her intercession…well, nevermind.
Catholics, have we really given them such a bad impression of our Mother??

That’s what I’d like to know.
LFL

It’s not a bad impression but, IMO, some wrong understandings.

 

[Dokimas]

Mary is not a big issue. Marian doctrines/dogmas are another story. I don’t see belief in the Immaculate Conception, Mary’s perpetual virginity, and the Assumption as requisite for being a faithful Christian. I don’t necessarily reject these teachings, but they don’t add to nor detract from my faith in Jesus Christ.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Agreed. I also think Mary is a wonderful example of a person who live her faith. She’s a wonderful example of trusting God while not understanding what He was doing at the moment.​

I love the verses that say that Mary hid important things about Jesus in her heart. I believe her meditating on her Son helped her in years to come with all the difficulty watching her Son be persecuted and crucified. A great example of how we should prepare ourselves for a time of persecution which could come, even in the USofA…

 

[spn82756]

Agreed. I also think Mary is a wonderful example of a person who live her faith. She’s a wonderful example of trusting God while not understanding what He was doing at the moment.​

I love the verses that say that Mary hid important things about Jesus in her heart. I believe her meditating on her Son helped her in years to come with all the difficulty watching her Son be persecuted and crucified. A great example of how we should prepare ourselves for a time of persecution which could come, even in the USofA…

Yes persecution could come. Sometimes things are scary looking. That’s why as Christians we should all be united in the common belief in our Lord Jesus Christ. That matters more than anything else. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ our King!

 

[Dokimas]

Yes persecution could come. Sometimes things are scary looking. That’s why as Christians we should all be united in the common belief in our Lord Jesus Christ. That matters more than anything else. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ our King!

Together we stand, divided we fall.​

Yes, we need each other. Thanks for being my friend. God bless you.

 

[JRKH]

Again, the Roman church has Early Church elements just as the Orthodox church, the Anglican church and the Lutheran church does.

I think it to be the other way around. There are facets of the Roman church that did not exist in the Early Church.

Please provide your definition of “early Church” and then provide the source document from that time with the list containing All the “facets” of the “Early Church”.

Again - I’m not setting any traps

Peace
James

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Thank you for reenforcing my point.

I, on the other hand, accept the Marion Dogmas, not because of any deep theological understanding of them but because I accept The Church’s authority to declare them.
Whether Mary was or was not “Immaculately Conceived”, or remained a “perpetual virgin” or the other dogma’s may not directly affect my daily faith walk, but my firm belief in the authority of The Church does directly effect my daily walk.

On the one hand, based on my own understandings, I cannot say that these doctrines are true. On the other hand, and for the same reason, I have no way of saying that these doctrines are false. I simply do not “understand” them any more than I “understand” the trinity, the sacrifice of the cross, transubstantiation or any of a host of other theological subjects.

My acceptance of them is based, not on any requirement for understanding, but rather on my belief that Christ intended for His Church to be "One as (He) and the Father are one… and to accomplish this Christ instituted a Church, a community, with authority to “Bind and Loose”…“Whatever”.

I know that others disagree with this, but I just wanted to explain how I can, on the one hand accept the Marion Doctrines, without understanding them.

peace
James

I think you make a clear case for your position. If you find yourself before God and are wrong about Mary, You did your best to follow His church as you understand it. If I find I was wrong and didnt give Mary enough attention and appreciation, I have two things going for me. Shes a mother, so she is used to that and she is “full of grace”.