I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

[Loboto-Me]

Tweety, it’s not respecting others to hide behind people’s posts that you agree with and giving jabs here and there. It’s a very passive agressive way to be and people can read right through it. It becomes annoying and antagonizes.

I rarely ever see you explain your “interpretations” except when jabbing behind someone else’s interpretation.:knight2:

 

[tweetymom]

Tweety, it’s not respecting others to hide behind people’s posts that you agree with and giving jabs here and there. It’s a very passive agressive way to be and people can read right through it. It becomes annoying and antagonizes.

I rarely ever see you explain your “interpretations” except when jabbing behind someone else’s interpretation.:knight2:

Apparently when I agree there is nothing elsr to say and when I disagree it must mean that their interpertation is contrary to what my church teaches and I do not agree with a lot of CC.

 

[larkin31]

They are not my interprtations they are for everyone. Sorry not trying to antagonlze you just stating my beliefs as you do. No different except we do not agree. You do not give your interperation, only post scripture and what someone tells you what it means. But it does not mean the same to others. God Bless you as you continue in your efforts. I do not get angry when you correct me or others. Doing no different than you, just giving mybeliefs like you. You say you have the truth and I know i have the truth, as others do. Why can’t we all just respect each other. You act like you are the only one right and critize everyone who does not agree with you or the CC. I respect your right to believe the CC is right. Why can’t you respect others?

One odd thing is that he hangs out on these threads that ask Protestants for their opinions, and then criticizes them for those opinions that are requested. It’s like inviting a Buddhist to dinner and then trailing them around to remind them how their faith is wrong.

 

[tweetymom]

One odd thing is that he hangs out on these threads that ask Protestants for their opinions, and then criticizes them for those opinions that are requested. It’s like inviting a Buddhist to dinner and then trailing them around to remind them how their faith is wrong.

oops guess i can hang on to your post. Right you are.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

They are not my interprtations they are for everyone. Sorry not trying to antagonlze you just stating my beliefs as you do. No different except we do not agree. You do not give your interperation, only post scripture and what someone tells you what it means. But it does not mean the same to others. God Bless you as you continue in your efforts. I do not get angry when you correct me or others. Doing no different than you, just giving mybeliefs like you. You say you have the truth and I know i have the truth, as others do. Why can’t we all just respect each other. You act like you are the only one right and critize everyone who does not agree with you or the CC. I respect your right to believe the CC is right. Why can’t you respect others?

The interpretations are clear, when read in light of the traditions of the living Church. NO ONE tells me what they mean. I do cross reference my interpretations with the Church’s and when I have questions, I accept the Church’s interpretation as Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with them, guide them and make all things known to THEM, until the consumation of the world. To say I post what someone tells me, is a form of antagnozation, but you’re smart enough to know that, at least I believe you are.

I post scriptures, with personal explanations, and yes sometimes I receive those explanations from His Church. There’s nothing wrong with that, being He established a Church that gave us the scriptures, in that order.

I respect the fact that everyone has free will. Some choose to use that free will to come here and challenge every aspect of Catholicism, and only Catholicism. It’s not my job to change minds, it’s the Holy Spirit. It’s my job to share the truth, for Catholics who may not know their faith as well as others, or for Catholics who might be a weak period of their faith and be tempted by teachings of the unlearned and unstable and find themselves being led into the error of the unwise.

It’s about serving Him the way He wants to be served and not about serving as some find convenient to their own lifestyles. Serving is not freedom.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Nothing is “that simple.”

You have a problem with looking at people, God’s creation?

There is only one who is perfect and offers salvation.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

One odd thing is that he hangs out on these threads that ask Protestants for their opinions, and then criticizes them for those opinions that are requested. It’s like inviting a Buddhist to dinner and then trailing them around to remind them how their faith is wrong.

What’s odd is someone who identfies themself as ‘agnostic’ but only offers up challenges for Catholicism on these forums.

I haven’t asked any questions, directly. Rather that ‘challenge’ people, I ask questions I’ve asked myself and found answers for.

Now, would you care to continue this discussion, or do you find it more beneficial to continue talking about me personally?

 

[tweetymom]

The interpretations are clear, when read in light of the traditions of the living Church. NO ONE tells me what they mean. I do cross reference my interpretations with the Church’s and when I have questions, I accept the Church’s interpretation as Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with them, guide them and make all things known to THEM, until the consumation of the world. To say I post what someone tells me, is a form of antagnozation, but you’re smart enough to know that, at least I believe you are.

I post scriptures, with personal explanations, and yes sometimes I receive those explanations from His Church. There’s nothing wrong with that, being He established a Church that gave us the scriptures, in that order.

I respect the fact that everyone has free will. Some choose to use that free will to come here and challenge every aspect of Catholicism, and only Catholicism. It’s not my job to change minds, it’s the Holy Spirit. It’s my job to share the truth, for Catholics who may not know their faith as well as others, or for Catholics who might be a weak period of their faith and be tempted by teachings of the unlearned and unstable and find themselves being led into the error of the unwise.

It’s about serving Him the way He wants to be served and not about serving as some find convenient to their own lifestyles. Serving is not freedom.

But see this is a non Catholic thread and I understand you are trying to make it clear about CC. And that is a good thing,for you to do. But thoseof us who do not agree have every right to state our beliefs, I know in whom I beleive in and who saved my soul, and I glory in HIm. The error is when we alone think that we are right. Myself I will leavr that up to God, He is the judge.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But see this is a non Catholic thread and I understand you are trying to make it clear about CC. And that is a good thing,for you to do. But thoseof us who do not agree have every right to state our beliefs, I know in whom I beleive in and who saved my soul, and I glory in HIm. The error is when we alone think that we are right. Myself I will leavr that up to God, He is the judge.

Being a non-Catholic thread, or forum, does not grant license to ‘snipe’ at every aspect of Catholicism, without supporting documentation or even an explanation.

When you reject every aspect of Catholicism and assert you’re correct, it is thinking that you are right. But, you probably don’t consider that an error, it’s only when a Catholic offers up scriptures and explanations that the error occurs?

People claim that everything Christ spoke, no matter who He spoke too, He is speaking and granting that authority to every single individual, from the beginning to the end. It’s ironic that the only time He was speaking ‘truth’ to a specific audience is when He addressed Pharisees and scribes. What about when He told Peter, ‘get thee behind me Satan.’ Those discussions are not meant for every single individual, especially those who grant that they have full authority from Christ. That’s the problem I see with some’s exegesis, they pick and choose what they want to apply to themselves, usurping the authority Christ chose and appointed specific men for.

As I said, I pray you seek Him, I intend on doing the same. This does not mean I will not be offering scriptures, with as much detailed explanations as possible, that refute what some mistakenly preach, in my honest opinion. What I am through with, is the little forms of ‘antagonizations’ being used, while ‘crying foul’ because I state the Catholic belief. Loboto-Me articulated the style being used rather well. I am glad Loboto did, it let me know it’s not just me that sees what’s going on.

 

[tweetymom]

Being a non-Catholic thread, or forum, does not grant license to ‘snipe’ at every aspect of Catholicism, without supporting documentation or even an explanation.

When you reject every aspect of Catholicism and assert you’re correct, it is thinking that you are right. But, you probably don’t consider that an error, it’s only when a Catholic offers up scriptures and explanations that the error occurs?

People claim that everything Christ spoke, no matter who He spoke too, He is speaking and granting that authority to every single individual, from the beginning to the end. It’s ironic that the only time He was speaking ‘truth’ to a specific audience is when He addressed Pharisees and scribes. What about when He told Peter, ‘get thee behind me Satan.’ Those discussions are not meant for every single individual, especially those who grant that they have full authority from Christ. That’s the problem I see with some’s exegesis, they pick and choose what they want to apply to themselves, usurping the authority Christ chose and appointed specific men for.

As I said, I pray you seek Him, I intend on doing the same. This does not mean I will not be offering scriptures, with as much detailed explanations as possible, that refute what some mistakenly preach, in my honest opinion. What I am through with, is the little forms of ‘antagonizations’ being used, while ‘crying foul’ because I state the Catholic belief. Loboto-Me articulated the style being used rather well. I am glad Loboto did, it let me know it’s not just me that sees what’s going on.

Thanks but you also snipe at people who do not agree with you dear friend. So you are the pot calling the kettle black:thumbsup: and I answered Loboto too. I have prayed and Jesus is living in my heart and hopefully yours too.

You cry foul when Protestants do not agree wiyth you, so whats with that. The scriptires you reveal do not have the same meaning to others that they do for you., that is why we are no all Catholics. I go to Catholic Church but I am a Protestant in my heart. And very proud of belonging to Jesus.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Thanks but you also snipe at people who do not agree with you dear friend. So you are the pot calling the kettle black:thumbsup: and I answered Loboto too. I have prayed and Jesus is living in my heart and hopefully yours too.

You cry foul when Protestants do not agree wiyth you, so whats with that. The scriptires you reveal do not have the same meaning to others that they do for you., that is why we are no all Catholics. I go to Catholic Church but I am a Protestant in my heart. And very proud of belonging to Jesus.

It’s easy to spot a ‘basher’. They normally refer to an aspect of Catholicism as ‘pagan’, ‘blasphemous’, ‘non-scriptural’, etc. Then there are the veiled ‘snipes’ like ‘I have Jesus, sorry you don’t’, or ‘I have the Holy Spirit, sorry you don’t’. It’s easy to see through the ad hominems, worded to antagonize.

While I have disagreed with your, and other’s, interpretations, I have not called you, or anyone else, names, or insinuated a self-righteousness over others by saying, ‘I have the authority of the Holy Spirit, sorry you don’t.’

Scriptures don’t have the same meaning for everyone, yet everyone claims the Holy Spirit gives them the meaning. Doesn’t that mean someone is being misled by other than the Holy Spirit? It sure sounds as if we need to heed Peter’s warning about the unlearned and unstable who wrest scriptures, even to their own destruction. We need to watch and not be led aside by the error of the unwise. This is exactly why Christ chose and appointed men over His Church, with the keys ot the kingdom of heaven, the authority to bind and loose on earth with a promise it would be made so in heaven and the authority to forgive and retain sins. This is why the inspired word of God tells us that the Church of the living God is the pillar and ground of truth, where the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known.

Individual interpretations is the cause of dissensions in His Church, and that’s not of God.

 

[tweetymom]

It’s easy to spot a ‘basher’. They normally refer to an aspect of Catholicism as ‘pagan’, ‘blasphemous’, ‘non-scriptural’, etc. Then there are the veiled ‘snipes’ like ‘I have Jesus, sorry you don’t’, or ‘I have the Holy Spirit, sorry you don’t’. It’s easy to see through the ad hominems, worded to antagonize.

While I have disagreed with your, and other’s, interpretations, I have not called you, or anyone else, names, or insinuated a self-righteousness over others by saying, ‘I have the authority of the Holy Spirit, sorry you don’t.’

Scriptures don’t have the same meaning for everyone, yet everyone claims the Holy Spirit gives them the meaning. Doesn’t that mean someone is being misled by other than the Holy Spirit? It sure sounds as if we need to heed Peter’s warning about the unlearned and unstable who wrest scriptures, even to their own destruction. We need to watch and not be led aside by the error of the unwise. This is exactly why Christ chose and appointed men over His Church, with the keys ot the kingdom of heaven, the authority to bind and loose on earth with a promise it would be made so in heaven and the authority to forgive and retain sins. This is why the inspired word of God tells us that the Church of the living God is the pillar and ground of truth, where the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known.

Individual interpretations is the cause of dissensions in His Church, and that’s not of God.

Glad you are so perfect!! Te church of the living God is the church of all believers and I am one of them, so lets just praise the Lord.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Glad you are so perfect!! Te church of the living God is the church of all believers and I am one of them, so lets just praise the Lord.

When did I say I was ‘so perfect’? See, another antagonizing statement tweetymom. Sorry, but I’m not interested in what you’re selling.

Also, please note how you avoided the direct question referencing the many interpretations, all claiming to have received their interpretation from the Holy Spirit. The avoidance speaks loud and clear, in my honest opinion.

Where in scriptures does it show that the Church of the living God is the Church of all believers, even believers who disagreed with each other?

 

[tweetymom]

When did I say I was ‘so perfect’? See, another antagonizing statement tweetymom. Sorry, but I’m not interested in what you’re selling.

Also, please note how you avoided the direct question referencing the many interpretations, all claiming to have received their interpretation from the Holy Spirit. The avoidance speaks loud and clear, in my honest opinion.

Where in scriptures does it show that the Church of the living God is the Church of all believers, even believers who disagreed with each other?

Where in scripture does it say Catholic?

Do you think the Holy Spirit only works in the CC?

Not trying to sell anything, but you do act like you are the only ones who have a handle on Jesus and He is for everyone.

 

[larkin31]

What’s odd is someone who identfies themself as ‘agnostic’ but only offers up challenges for Catholicism on these forums.

I haven’t asked any questions, directly. Rather that ‘challenge’ people, I ask questions I’ve asked myself and found answers for.

Now, would you care to continue this discussion, or do you find it more beneficial to continue talking about me personally?

Your “only” is incorrect, and actually, it is mostly YOUR claims that get my responses on these threads, because you make the most UNQUALIFIED claims, and I find these most objectionable. It’s not my fault that you write what you write.

And in this case, I directly responded to your writing and quoted you. It isn’t about you personally. It is about what you write. I find your writings peculiar and extremist, a form of absolutism that contains paradox and contradiction and rhetorical error.

For example, you seem to be stating that God and Jesus come before and above all the rest, and as such hold theological pre-eminence over the work(s) of humans (those you call “people”). Is this a correct summary of your argument here?

 

[larkin31]

for the record, I DO try to sell ecumenism

repeatedly, daily, at my workplace and in my private life

 

[guanophore]

Do you deny the existence of dissension, even within individual churches? Is the cc above it, or do members argue among themselves? From reading some of the posts in this forum, I would say, that on many an occasion, there has been trouble on the homefront!

Yes, of course, people bicker among themselves whereever they are, and I agree with you, it is human nature. However, this is where the deficient notion of the Church is a real setback.

See, the Apostles taught that the Church is something that is over and above all the individuals who are part of her. She is One, because her Head is Christ, and her Soul is the HS. So even if Catholics bicker among themselves, the Church is still one.

Our separated brethren lack this to a large extent because they don’t see the Church as One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. They believe it is the collection of believers on earth. Their church does not have the divine elements that preserve unity, which are immutable, and beyond human nature. The Church, like Christ, is incarnational, with divine elements, and human. It is the divine elements that make her infallible.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Where in scripture does it say Catholic?

Answering questions with questions? Even though it appears to be an avoidance of an honest discussion, I am going to do my best to answer your questions. It would be so nice if you would show us the same courtesy when we ask you questions.

The term ‘Catholic’ is derived from the Greek that was used to write the New Testament. I am providing a verse in the New Testament that specifically uses the Greek, that the term ‘Catholic’ is derived from.

**Acts 9:31

(IGNT+) αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE** τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.

G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.

kata holos
kat-ah’ hol’-os
Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.

Now, around 110AD, St. Ignatius, believed to have been appointed by St. Peter and a disciple of St. John, wrote the following, in a letter to the Smyrnæans.

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

Please note that St. Ignatius uses the term without explanation, which indicates he was not introducing the term, but using a term already in use.

Let me ask you this, do you believe in the Trinity? You realize the term ‘Trinity’ is not in scriptures. If you believe in the Trinity, why are you using a double standard in requiring a term that developed with the ‘new’ Church, over time?

Do you think the Holy Spirit only works in the CC?

I do not limit where the Holy Spirit works, or how. For my own belief, I rely on scriptures, specifically what Christ promised the men He chose and appointed over His Church, and His authoritative Church, that He established.

Not trying to sell anything, but you do act like you are the only ones who have a handle on Jesus and He is for everyone.

I’m sorry you take that from my responses. As you can see, even in this post, I use scriptures, and other documentation, to explain how I derived my beliefs. I am not going to give up what I have rationally and spiritually researched because of someone posting their opinion, without any documentation, including the scriptures, or explanations. To be honest, that would not be discerning, as scriptures tell us to do.

While you say you’re not trying to sell anything, you are promoting a belief, and challenging Catholicism while doing it. Why do you come to a Catholic forum to do this, if not to change the minds of Catholics to your theology?

I have answered your questions and ask that you kindly respond to those questions I have asked you. Please use scriptures, and other documentation, with explanations, to respond.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Your “only” is incorrect, and actually, it is mostly YOUR claims that get my responses on these threads, because you make the most UNQUALIFIED claims, and I find these most objectionable. It’s not my fault that you write what you write.

And in this case, I directly responded to your writing and quoted you. It isn’t about you personally. It is about what you write. I find your writings peculiar and extremist, a form of absolutism that contains paradox and contradiction and rhetorical error.

For example, you seem to be stating that God and Jesus come before and above all the rest, and as such hold theological pre-eminence over the work(s) of humans (those you call “people”). Is this a correct summary of your argument here?

I am sorry if you don’t understand my posts. I rarely post without scriptures, or other documentation, along with my explanations. That is called ‘qualifying’.

As you can see, I am still responding to your ‘attacks’ on my explanations and what has become on my person, personally. While you accuse my view of being ‘extremist’, you need to research the Catholic Church more. You’ll see it’s not something I am alone in believing.

God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, is above all others, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be. I don’t think you will even find anyone claiming to be a Christian that would disagree with that statement.

 

[Catholicnow]

I don’t get it…if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?

Because a vast majority of Catholics aren’t Christian.