I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

[PRmerger]

No, it isn’t. You keep simply trying to pin me into little rhetorical corners for little points.

Well, you’re making your own definition up of what “absolute truth” is. Me? I got that quote from someone else, so it’s not my doing. I’ll provide you with more if you like.

Here’s one more:

An absolute truth, sometimes called a universal truth, is an unalterable and permanent fact.

 

[PRmerger]

Why listen to any humble human? You don’t have to, if you don’t want to.

If you don’t even believe you know the truth, why should I listen to you?

Actually, you don’t even believe your own paradigm. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be proclaiming as truth what you believe.

*No one *can live by the paradigm that there’s no absolute truth.

 

[larkin31]

*No one *can live by the paradigm that there’s no absolute truth.

oh, baloney



here is a real good reason that as a Protestant I was not interested in Catholic discourse

 

[larkin31]

If you don’t even believe you know the truth, why should I listen to you?

Actually, you don’t even believe your own paradigm. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be proclaiming as truth what you believe.

Which “paradigm” have I pronounced?

 

[1beleevr]

Well, since Scripture doesn’t say that, it’s something you’re adding, yes?

If you’re saying it’s LITERAL, then you must read it as LITERAL: ALL have sinned.

Clearly. There’s exceptions to the “all have sinned”. i.e: it’s NOT literal!

Wretchedness and infallibility are not mutually exclusive. That’s, I think, where all non-Catholics get hung up. They think that if someone is “infallible” it means they are “impeccable”. Not the same thing.

You believe Paul is incapable of teaching error when he writes the inspired Scripture. That is, he’s infallible.

What did I add to scripture? Everyone reads scripture and says," well, that’s what the early church fathers taught!" Like John 20:20-23, Matthew 16:18, 1Corinthians 3:13-15, etc.,etc.,Clearly, there are not exceptions to “all have sinned,”. Jesus does not fit into this equation! Paul is referring to ALL humans(not Jesus) born after the fall. I guess I gave you too much credit for being able to figure it out!

 

[Cinette]

Where in scripture does it say Catholic?

Do you think the Holy Spirit only works in the CC?

Not trying to sell anything, but you do act like you are the only ones who have a handle on Jesus and He is for everyone.

*How wrong you are my friend - it is through the Catholic Church that I learned how the Holy Spirit works through all people - He does not discriminate. I even believe that he also chooses to act through Muslims at times…

The Holy Spirit has enriched the Catholic Church with many Protestant converts who contribute and work hard for the Church and whose work is greatly appreciated. I believe that God allowed Protestantism to open our eyes. We all belong in God’s Church and will one day be united in Him.

*

 

[1beleevr]

*How wrong you are my friend - it is through the Catholic Church that I learned how the Holy Spirit works through all people - He does not discriminate. I even believe that he also chooses to act through Muslims at times…

The Holy Spirit has enriched the Catholic Church with many Protestant converts who contribute and work hard for the Church and whose work is greatly appreciated. I believe that God allowed Protestantism to open our eyes. We all belong in God’s Church and will one day be united in Him.

*

We will be united, but there will be no denominations, religions, or any other divisions! Just saints worshipping our God!

 

[guanophore]

Ah, sweet guanophore; always ready with words of wisdom! Of course I know that it is doctrine! At work, we call it “being on the same page!” Because of free will, we are able to be swayed by fast talking, sincere sounding “snake oil selling,” false prophets! God does desire unity, and some day we will have it! Just think, no more denominations, no more religions, no more infighting, just glorious worshipping and praising!

Unity exists in God right now, and in the Church He founded. He desired, and prayed for that unity. Or, are you suggesting that Jesus’ prayer was not effective?

The Apostles taught that we are to PRESERVE the unity in the bond of peace. Those that have departed from the unity established by them fail to preserve that unity. this unity is found in adherance to the doctrines believed and taught by the Apostles.

Any who wish to enter, or return to this perfect unity, the oneness of mind, are able to do so by moving into communion with the One Church founded by Christ.

 

[ZDHayden]

The primary reason I have come across is misinformation. There are some virulent and hateful tracts out there that seek to undermine the authority of the Catholic Church, or even to proclaim it as un-Christian or pagan. All of this is due to misinformation. It is rarely, if ever, the individual spreading the information’s fault, nor their pastor’s. Rather, their instruction comes usually from some disillusioned but charismatic individual who could not see past their own personal opinions and taught said opinions to their followers, who taught their followers, etc. Brought up in a fundamentalist Southern Baptist household, with United Methodist influences, I was taught to believe many lies about the Church, as was my family, some of which were properly instructed when my mom married a Catholic man from Italy. Others remained hostile to the Church even as I began my investigation. By my conversion this Easter, fortunately, they were in full support.
Some of those who are anti-Catholic will argue that they are not misinformed, but just a basic knowledge gleaned from participation in the Mass will reveal otherwise when they seek to prove it, even more so with knowledge from RCIA instruction. Unfortunately, there are those who, no matter how much support you have, they will not believe you, and will begin to recycle their arguments in order to avoid admitting their own error.

This is just what I have experienced, it is not necessarily all cases, but it is what I have had the unfortunate displeasure of experiencing. Hope this helped.

 

[guanophore]

The point about an unbroken chain from the Apostles to today, is what most noncatholics have trouble believing! There really is no credible proof, other than oral tradition!

Statements like this make you appear to be grossly ignorant of history and available ecclesiastical evidence.

I can see why it would be important for you to believe such myths, however, because if the Authority appointed by Christ does, in fact, exist, then you would have a moral obligation to submit to it.

 

[guanophore]

I do not get It . If your a Catholic Christian why do you keep harasing others about becoming Catholic?

Because we were commanded to do so my Jesus.

 I was a Catholic and I left the Church because of all of the child abuse and the sweeping of things under the Carpet.

This is the same as saying “I left Jesus because of how Judas behaved”. It just does not make any sense to make decisions about how you will relate to the Truth based upon the bad behavior of those who reject it.

  There is just to much power given to the Preist The Bishops and the Pope

I guess your complaint is against God, then, rather than any human living on earth or buried under it.

The only power anybody has is the power we allow them to have over us. As for myself I choose not to allow them to have power over me.

You are certainly free to rebel against the authority that Christ appointed over you. However your disobedience does not change the actual power that Christ has afforded to those whom He has appointed.

Catholic apologist can scream and yell all they want about the power Parish Priest have. Fact of tthe matter is The Mr Madrids of the world make good money telling other what they should believe. The money Changer are getting wealthy from others Guilt. They sew their crop of guilt on the Radio and them Sell books to rid other of the guilt they themselves created

I will pray for you. You seem to have no concept of the Holy Bride of Christ, for whom He gave his blood on the cross.

 

[guanophore]

I know of at least 5(five) catholic friends whomopenly admit that they are currently having affairs, three of them have fathered children with other women while married to their wives. And a catholic co-worker gives up alcohol for Lent, but then has a big beer blast on Easter Sunday; with all attendees getting wasted! I am quite certain that these people I know, are not a representation of the average catholic, but it does make you wonder

Unfortunately, I think the situations you describe ARE a representation of “the average Catholic”. It seems to me that most “catholics” are living in grave sin, and are on the wide and easy road.

If most Catholics really believed and practiced what the Church teaches, America would be a very different country.

 

[PRmerger]

What did I add to scripture? Everyone reads scripture and says," well, that’s what the early church fathers taught!" Like John 20:20-23, Matthew 16:18, 1Corinthians 3:13-15, etc.,etc.,Clearly, there are not exceptions to “all have sinned,”. Jesus does not fit into this equation! Paul is referring to ALL humans(not Jesus) born after the fall. I guess I gave you too much credit for being able to figure it out!

You can’t have it both ways, 1beleevr. Either Paul LITERALLY meant ALL. Or he didn’t.

If he LITERALLY meant ALL, that includes Jesus.

OR

He* didn’t* mean it LITERALLY, in which case you can exclude Jesus. And Mary. And those who have Down Syndrome. And babies. (This, BTW, agrees with Scripture–just a few chapters later Paul writes about the unborn babies Esau and Jacob as a time when they “had done nothing either good or bad” (Rom. 9:11)

 

[PRmerger]

Which “paradigm” have I pronounced?

This one,

there is no absolute rule.

You keep making absolutes. You keep proclaiming things to be true.

Again, if* you *don’t even believe that could be speaking a truth, why should anyone listen to you?

I continue to engage you in dialogue because I want you to really think your paradigm through–to see how it falls apart in the face of logic and reason. And to see that there’s another answer that you dismissed in your youth and ought to re-consider now.

 

[guanophore]

Jesus also mocked and rebelled against authority. He even purposefully taunted it.

No, He did not . He instructed His followers to submit to authority.

He mocked hypocrisy, and the abuse of power.

 

[guanophore]

Thanks. I read this. I don’t see how it addresses my point about authority. My point is that the story of Jesus IS the story of a man who, in part, rebels against the religious authority on earth established by God through Moses and the prophets. And that without this rebellion, there would be no life of Jesus. The life of Jesus demonstrates both the value and the necessity of questioning–and at times opposing–established religious authority, even that of one’s own religion.

Jesus did not rebel against anything that was established by God prior to His coming. Nor did he abrogate any authority that was appointed, such as the Seat of Moses. On the contrary, he fulfilled the Law and the Prophets through His perfect obedience to them.

Jesus rebelled against the misuse of authority only.

 

[Cinette]

The primary reason I have come across is misinformation. There are some virulent and hateful tracts out there that seek to undermine the authority of the Catholic Church, or even to proclaim it as un-Christian or pagan. All of this is due to misinformation. It is rarely, if ever, the individual spreading the information’s fault, nor their pastor’s. Rather, their instruction comes usually from some disillusioned but charismatic individual who could not see past their own personal opinions and taught said opinions to their followers, who taught their followers, etc. Brought up in a fundamentalist Southern Baptist household, with United Methodist influences, I was taught to believe many lies about the Church, as was my family, some of which were properly instructed when my mom married a Catholic man from Italy. Others remained hostile to the Church even as I began my investigation. By my conversion this Easter, fortunately, they were in full support.
Some of those who are anti-Catholic will argue that they are not misinformed, but just a basic knowledge gleaned from participation in the Mass will reveal otherwise when they seek to prove it, even more so with knowledge from RCIA instruction. Unfortunately, there are those who, no matter how much support you have, they will not believe you, and will begin to recycle their arguments in order to avoid admitting their own error.

This is just what I have experienced, it is not necessarily all cases, but it is what I have had the unfortunate displeasure of experiencing. Hope this helped.

*Have you noticed that it is anti-Catholics and the devil that attack the Catholic Church? Hmmm… They have written volumes against the Church. Has the Church or any of its faithful ever written a single book against non-Catholics? Full of lies and misconceptions? Ever?

What does this tell us?

God bless all
Cinette*

 

[Jimmy_B]

Have you noticed that it is anti-Catholics and the devil that attack the Catholic Church? Hmmm… They have written volumes against the Church. Has the Church or any of its faithful ever written a single book against non-Catholics? Full of lies and misconceptions? Ever?

What does this tell us?

God bless all
Cinette

All true and I would like to add that I have never heard a priest, during all of the years I’ve attended Mass, utter a single negative word about any other religion or denomination, or non-Catholic, religious leader… not a single word.

 

[TriuneUnity]

All true and I would like to add that I have never heard a priest, during all of the years I’ve attended Mass, utter a single negative word about any other religion or denomination, or non-Catholic, religious leader… not a single word.

Nope, never, Jimmy <achoooooFrO’Hare’sfalselibelabout MartinLutherinTheFactsAboutLuther>

 

[Jimmy_B]

Nope, never, Jimmy <achoooooFrO’Hare’sfalselibelabout MartinLutherinTheFactsAboutLuther>

I don’t get it, you don’t believe me???