I don't know how much more of this garbage I can take!

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It really in not up to Catholic’s to interpret anything. It is up to The Catholic Church to do that.

And up to Catholic’s to listen, not guess.

So … what went wrong?
 
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Mandi:
I’ll just state the obvious on more time.

funny … The 20 previous General Councils did not have this problem!
They didn’t?

Then why were other Councils needed?

Why were any Papal Encyclicals needed?

Why were an Bulls needed?

These are all things necessary to clarify dissention and people clinging to improper understandings of the faith.

There have been heresies throughout the entire life of the Church.

And NOBODY is saying it’s OK to misinterpret of dissent! Where in the world did you get that idea? We are saying, quite simply, that there IS misinterpretation and dissention. It is not OK, but it is out there.

:banghead:
 
gomer tree:
Then why were other Councils needed?
Would you like Me to go into complete detail on each Council and why it was needed - because I can if you like.

The First Council of Nicaea - 325 AD

Emperor Constantine convoked the first Gereal Council of the Church at Nicaea in order to restore peace to the Church and put an end to the great religious and civil turmoil caused by the Arian heresy.

First council of Constantinople - 381 AD

The first Council of Nicaea was not successful in eradicating Arianism becuase two years later 328 Constantine became a defender of Arianism after the heretic deceived him with a false Profession of Faith. The Arian heresy, by then a popluar religion, spread like wildfire throughout the empire among bishops, priest and laity.

If any would like me to continue regarding WHY General Councils took place, please let me know.

Now why was Vactican II issued - now that’s a different story

Now we would not be the first to ask this question, at the time many bishops asked this question. In the first half of the 20th century the Catholic Church experienced unprecedented growth.

Vatican II was not to fix something that was broken or straighten out some heresy, it was to open the window of the Catholic Church… and we can all see the results.
And NOBODY is saying it’s OK to misinterpret of dissent! Where in the world did you get that idea?
From you,
you seem to take it as a matter fact - “that they are wrong - they just misinterpret” So this leaves me with the only assumption that the tool God gave us to make sure this doesn’t happen is broken. This doesn’t make you mad! Because the thought of it is certainly not OK with me.
We are saying, quite simply, that there IS misinterpretation and dissention. It is not OK, but it is out there.
Than maybe JPII should do what has been done in the past and call for a General Council and straighten this out.

Doesn’t sound that hard to me. But of course you have to at least think there is a problem before you can fix it!
 
Catholic I am:
With all respect, my answers:

(1) Then the Church needs to hold its leadership and members accountable.

(2) How long does it take to make a determination, when there are pictures? If a picture speaks a 1000 words, how many does 40, 000 plus speak?

(3) Thats what the problem is!!! That gives the appearance the Church leaders don’t give a hoot!

(4) The media would not be able to do this if Vatican used it’s own press core more.

(5) Agreed. But, we the members need to see action taken!

(6) This is true. The Pope also has the power to Excommunicate and rid the the Church of this filth.
I totally agree with you…I am tired of seeing little to no action being taken when the prove is beyond reproach. I never want to see an innocent priest ruined because of hasty decisions, but I’d much rather he be put on leave until the issue is resolved, rather than take no action at all for fear over-reacting. When it comes to innocent children being abused by the very ones they should be able to trust, you can’t act soon enough.

I will never leave the Church because these sinful priests are not the Church. True, I believe we are being tested and we have to stand strong. This truly Satan’s hand at work. God help us all.
 
txangel said:
I totally agree with you…I am tired of seeing little to no action being taken when the prove is beyond reproach. I never want to see an innocent priest ruined because of hasty decisions, but I’d much rather he be put on leave until the issue is resolved, rather than take no action at all for fear over-reacting. When it comes to innocent children being abused by the very ones they should be able to trust, you can’t act soon enough.

I will never leave the Church because these sinful priests are not
the Church. True, I believe we are being tested and we have to stand strong. This truly Satan’s hand at work. God help us all.

Thank you. It is good to know I’m not the only one that feels this way. 🙂
 
It’s this sort of thing that confuses the heck out of my mother, who might be on the verge on conversion. She has no real conception yet of why I stay Catholic (i.e. the Eucharist, the fact that the Church is the Kingdom of God established on earth) and says things like “well, the faith looks good on paper, but it seems that nobody can live it out.” I think I’m going to explain everything that’s going on like this:

There was one Judas in the 12 and Jesus allowed it happen. If there was one Judas in 12 apostles, imagine how many other Judas’s might be out there today among the billions of Catholics. We need to just put it in perspective. There are a lot more faithful Catholics than unfaithful ones. a LOT more.

Is that a weak position to take?
 
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CatholicNerd:
It’s this sort of thing that confuses the heck out of my mother, who might be on the verge on conversion. She has no real conception yet of why I stay Catholic (i.e. the Eucharist, the fact that the Church is the Kingdom of God established on earth) and says things like “well, the faith looks good on paper, but it seems that nobody can live it out.” I think I’m going to explain everything that’s going on like this:

There was one Judas in the 12 and Jesus allowed it happen. If there was one Judas in 12 apostles, imagine how many other Judas’s might be out there today among the billions of Catholics. We need to just put it in perspective. There are a lot more faithful Catholics than unfaithful ones. a LOT more.

Is that a weak position to take?
It’s a good position, but maybe not the best approach. Rather than focus on the fact that 1 in 12 people might be a Judas (not a very good ratio, if you ask me), remind her simply that there are sinners in the Church, like Judas, but that there most definitely are people who “can live it out”. Point out how many saints have been canonized. Point to the lives of recent saints and blesseds.
 
I have read this thread, but only now I can write…I couldn’t because is very painful to read such this articles. I don’t belive what is happening in those priests and seminarists heads, I think they are insane.

This problem in general, in Eastarn Orthodox Schismatic Church is the same thing, during the comunist times (15 years ago) in my city, Sibiu/Hermanstadt, there was the same problem, but the Orthodox Schismatic Church had hidden this so a few people knew. My father had a friend at their seminary, and he told him that the futue monks priests (monahal) have been found at the medical control with siphilis (If i remember, it was localised in the anal zone).
And during this times they are imoral, and the furure priest goes with girls and some with young men, and the Orthodox schismatic bishop says nothing (of course he receive money).

Lord have mercy for their souls.
 
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theodorro:
I have read this thread, but only now I can write…I couldn’t because is very painful to read such this articles. I don’t belive what is happening in those priests and seminarists heads, I think they are insane.

This problem in general, in Eastarn Orthodox Schismatic Church is the same thing, during the comunist times (15 years ago) in my city, Sibiu/Hermanstadt, there was the same problem, but the Orthodox Schismatic Church had hidden this so a few people knew. My father had a friend at their seminary, and he told him that the futue monks priests (monahal) have been found at the medical control with siphilis (If i remember, it was localised in the anal zone).
And during this times they are imoral, and the furure priest goes with girls and some with young men, and the Orthodox schismatic bishop says nothing (of course he receive money).

Lord have mercy for their souls.
You are right, theodorro. [Nice to hear from Romania]!!! God have mercy on them, and all sinners. I think they are either sick also, or extremely spiritually sick or both. The problem seems to keep getting bigger and bigger. In your opinion, what can be done? There are still many good priests and bishops, but the number keeps dwindling with all these sex abuses/crimes. Much, much prayer is needed, especially for the faithful priests who remain.
 
reply to pccpilot, surely you cannot imagine that God somehow programmed anyone to sin in order to validate a so-called prophecy reported by a private person at Fatima or anyplace else. Even it all the reports by the Fatima visionaries are true, and it is not an article of faith Catholics are bound to accept, where in any of this do you find evidence that God causes such horrible actions to occur in order to promote his agenda. God may permit evil in order that his plan may be acted out be he surely does not “program” any creature to participate in such evil. where is your free will?
 
Catholic I am said:
VIENNA, Austria (AP) – A vast cache of child pornography and photos of young priests having sex has been discovered at a Roman Catholic seminary, officials said Monday, leading politicians and church leaders to demand a criminal probe and the resignation of the bishop in charge.

Bishop Kurt Krenn, who oversees the diocese, refused to step down, however, dismissing the images as a “childish prank.”

Leaders of the Catholic diocese of St. Poelten where the seminary is located, about 50 miles west of Vienna, spent much of the day in an emergency meeting.

The seminary’s director, the Rev. Ulrich Kuechl, resigned along with his deputy, Wolfgang Rothe, the diocese said after the meeting. It did not elaborate.

As many as 40,000 photos and an undisclosed number of films, including child pornography, were found a year ago on computers at the seminary, the respected news magazine Profil reported.

It published several images purportedly showing young priests and their instructors kissing and fondling each other, and said others showed them engaging in orgies and sex games. The child porn came mostly from Web sites based in Poland, the magazine said.

Hannes Jarolim, a spokesman for the opposition Socialist Party, urged the Interior Ministry on Monday to launch a criminal investigation. Public prosecutor Walter Nemec said police were examining the material, which he said showed seminarians “in perverse situations together with their superiors.”

The Austrian Bishops Conference issued a statement pledging a full and swift internal investigation.

“Anything that has to do with the practice of homosexuality or pornography has no place at a seminary for priests,” it said.

Krenn, a conservative churchman, told Austrian television he had seen photos of seminary leaders in sexual situations with students, but he described the images as part of an elaborate prank that “had nothing to do with homosexuality.”

His nonchalance drew swift and scathing reaction across the overwhelmingly Catholic nation.

“Collecting child pornography cannot be dismissed as a prank,” said Thomas Huber, a Green Party politician.

In the mid-1990s, Austria was stung by allegations that Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer, who died last year, had molested students at an all-male Catholic boarding school two decades earlier. The affair had prompted Groer to step down.

A group of St. Poelten Diocese officials planned to ask the Vatican to remove Krenn as bishop, Austrian radio reported Monday. Martin Walchhofer, who supervises the alpine country’s seminaries, said Krenn ultimately was responsible and “must answer before the church and before God for all of this.”

Asked whether he intended to resign, Krenn said bluntly: “No.”

The Vatican said it had no comment.

Krenn, 68, issued a statement calling the accusations groundless while conceding that he “may have made some wrong personnel decisions” at the seminary. Rothe, the former deputy seminary chief, was a legal adviser to the bishop.

cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/07/12/seminary.porn.ap/index.html

I’m getting real tired of all the NO COMMENT and in action that is going on. We need Jesus to enter our churches and start turning over tables. I want the trash out of the Church!!! It sickin’s me:banghead:

Jesus said He will not leave us without help. I believe in Him. I know there is much that is wrong with the church. Coming from a family that was touched by the scandal let me say please don’t give up. I still call it my home and my life (after being away for about 30 years). I thank God He brought me back home. He will make it right again. He’s separating the chafe from the wheat.
maggiec
 
Zenit reports that the Holy Father has appointed Bishop Klaus
Kung of Feldkirch, Austria as Apostolic Visitator for the Diocese of St.Polten, Austria and in particular for the diocesan seminary.

Many years,

Neil
 
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