I don't know what a mortal sin is

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of all of the catholic teachings, the one that says that (a) if we die in an unrepented state of mortal sin and (b) if we are conscious of grave sin, we should not take communuion, causes me the most difficulty.

some acts obviously are mortal sins: murder, adultery, fornication, masturbation.

but most bad acts don’t fit into neat categories like that.

e.g., when i played golf yesterday, i had six beers over a six-hour period. i was never intoxicated, but the beer certainly affected my behavior. i also used some very harsh language (but did not take the lord’s name in vain) and threw my clubs a couple of times. when i went to mass this morning, i took communuion. i didn’t have time to go to confession before mass (and, frankly, don’t feel like i need to do so, even though i have asked forgiveness for my sins [the language] and will probably try to do better next time).

many people here will probably have an opinion about whether i am now in a state of mortal sin. sadly, those opinions are just that–opinions. the church has not very clearly defnied the acts that will send us to hell (or, if it has, i’d like to review the document).

some will say, “what’s the big deal–just go to confession.” and there’s no big deal about going to confession. the big deal comes, though, when i show up for mass and wonder whether my soul is in a good enough state to receive communion. that’s where the ambiguity really matters.

and the point is not whether going to confession is a big deal. i want to know whether i must go to confession.

adultery is a mortal sin. ditto masturbation. but is looking at pornography for 30 seconds a mortal sin? how about looking at a woman and having a lustful thought? what about looking at her five times and having lustful thoughts?

i wish the church would draw some bright lines on this.
 
Well, there are a couple of things here.

As you know, three things are necessary for one to commit a mortal sin: full consent of the will, full knowledge of having committed the sin, and grave matter.

Of course we can define grave matter, but that does not mean that every instance involving grave matter has the other two qualifications of mortal sin.

Therefore, the Church is kind of careful in laying out a strict list of mortal sins–just like the Church really doesn’t have a strict list of venial sins. It takes a developed conscience to discern mortal sin. Not a Church document.

As to whether or not you should receive holy Communion, I think that if you are in doubt as to the state of your disposition, you should not. You are about to receive the body and blood, soul and divinity of our Lord! Why would you want to even allow for an error in sanctity on your part and risk committing a sacrilege?
 
The Catechism section on mortal sin (section begins here scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1854):

IV. THE GRAVITY OF SIN: MORTAL AND VENIAL SIN
1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.
[1855](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1855.htm’)😉 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.
[1856](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1856.htm’)😉 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:
When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130
1857 For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
[1858](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1858.htm’)😉 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
[1859](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1859.htm’)😉 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
[1860](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1860.htm’)😉 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
[1861](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1861.htm’)😉 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.
[1863](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1863.htm’)😉 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134
While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call “light”: if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135 [1864](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1864.htm’)😉 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
 
kage_ar said:
The Catechism section on mortal sin (section begins here scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1854):

IV. THE GRAVITY OF SIN: MORTAL AND VENIAL SIN
1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.
[1855](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1855.htm’)😉 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.
[1856](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1856.htm’)😉 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:
When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130
1857 For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
[1858](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1858.htm’)😉 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
[1859](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1859.htm’)😉 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
[1860](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1860.htm’)😉 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
[1861](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1861.htm’)😉 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.
[1863](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1863.htm’)😉 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134
While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call “light”: if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135 [1864](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1864.htm’)😉 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
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on the one hand, the church says that committing murder is a mortal sin. then, it says that spitting on the sidewalk is a venial sin. the trouble is, 99.9 percent of sins are somewhere in the middle.
 
captainmike said:
of all of the catholic teachings, the one that says that (a) if we die in an unrepented state of mortal sin and (b) if we are conscious of grave sin, we should not take communuion, causes me the most difficulty.

some acts obviously are mortal sins: murder, adultery, fornication, masturbation.

but most bad acts don’t fit into neat categories like that.

e.g., when i played golf yesterday, i had six beers over a six-hour period. i was never intoxicated, but the beer certainly affected my behavior. i also used some very harsh language (but did not take the lord’s name in vain) and threw my clubs a couple of times. when i went to mass this morning, i took communuion. i didn’t have time to go to confession before mass (and, frankly, don’t feel like i need to do so, even though i have asked forgiveness for my sins [the language] and will probably try to do better next time).

many people here will probably have an opinion about whether i am now in a state of mortal sin. sadly, those opinions are just that–opinions. the church has not very clearly defnied the acts that will send us to hell (or, if it has, i’d like to review the document).

some will say, “what’s the big deal–just go to confession.” and there’s no big deal about going to confession. the big deal comes, though, when i show up for mass and wonder whether my soul is in a good enough state to receive communion. that’s where the ambiguity really matters.

and the point is not whether going to confession is a big deal. i want to know whether i must go to confession.

adultery is a mortal sin. ditto masturbation. but is looking at pornography for 30 seconds a mortal sin? how about looking at a woman and having a lustful thought? what about looking at her five times and having lustful thoughts?

i wish the church would draw some bright lines on this.
Click to expand...
Simple rule - if in doubt, abstain from communion and go to confession. Part of the reason the sacrament of confession exists is so that the priest can advise us about our sins on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes you need to ask to get the advice, that’s what the priest is there for.

Sin IS a personal matter - it’s to do with the relationship between you and God, and how your behaviour AND interior disposition affects that. Just like the relationship between husbands and wives, it IS often a partially subjective thing.

One and the same wife might on one day not worry about her husband being home an hour late from work, on another day might be upset if he’s late and doesn’t call, on another day might freak regardless. All reasonable responses, depending on the surrounding circumstances (does he normally work irregular hours? Are they in danger of missing a plane because he’s late? has he recently admitted to infidelity with a co-worker?)

A wise person takes the circumstances into account when determining what is the right thing to do - and knows that there isn’t a blanket rule for a lot of behaviours. Same with sin - your confessor is there to advise as well as absolve.
 
captainmike said:
on the one hand, the church says that committing murder is a mortal sin. then, it says that spitting on the sidewalk is a venial sin. the trouble is, 99.9 percent of sins are somewhere in the middle.
Click to expand...
It’s not even as cut and dried as that, since, if the man who spits on the sidewalk is spitting on the sidewalk in front of the Church as an act of defiance against God and with the intent of spreading a dreaded disease to the members of the congregation, then he is most likely in a state of mortal sin.

And a guy who commits murder but who was not in his right mind at the time may well not be in the state of mortal sin, due to lack of full consent of the will to commit the act.

So, to get back to the definition of a mortal sin:

It is any wrong action, done with full knowledge that it is wrong, with full consent of the will.

With regard to your case, only you can judge whether you had the full capacity to consent to your behaviour. Either way, take it as a lesson for the future, not to get yourself into a similar situation in the future, where things get out of hand like that.
 
The more I avail myself of the sacrament of confession, the more I make a daily exam of consceince, the clearer the gravity of my sins become.
 
jmcrae said:
So, to get back to the definition of a mortal sin:

It is any wrong action, done with full knowledge that it is wrong, with full consent of the will.
Click to expand...
wait a minute–it’s not just any wrong action, is it? rather, it’s wrong action involving grave matter, right?

so, the question is, what is grave matter?
 
captainmike said:
wait a minute–it’s not just any wrong action, is it? rather, it’s wrong action involving grave matter, right?
Click to expand...
Right. 👍
so, the question is, what is grave matter?
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Grave matter is any action that goes against the Ten Commandments, as interpreted by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount (by which I mean the entire Sermon - all three chapters - not only the Beatitudes).

Any approved Examen goes through them point by point. If you are not using an approved Examen when you prepare for Confession, you should get hold of one. Your priest will know where to find a good one. (The one in the back of the St. Joseph Missal is excellent. 👍 )
 
jmcrae said:
Any approved Examen goes through them point by point. If you are not using an approved Examen when you prepare for Confession, you should get hold of one. Your priest will know where to find a good one. (The one in the back of the St. Joseph Missal is excellent. 👍 )
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The Church does not “approve” examinations of conscience.
 
jmcrae said:
Any approved Examen goes through them point by point. If you are not using an approved Examen when you prepare for Confession, you should get hold of one.
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i will do so. thanks.

i see that, like me, you are a fairly recent convert. from which other church (or lack thereof) did you come?
 
jmcrae said:
Right. 👍

Grave matter is any action that goes against the Ten Commandments, as interpreted by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount (by which I mean the entire Sermon - all three chapters - not only the Beatitudes).

Any approved Examen goes through them point by point. If you are not using an approved Examen when you prepare for Confession, you should get hold of one. Your priest will know where to find a good one. (The one in the back of the St. Joseph Missal is excellent. 👍 )
Click to expand...
Fr Robert Altier has written an especially good examen which breaks sins down into mortal and venial categories - gives you a better sense of what sort of matter is grave and what isn’t. It’s online at catholicparents.org/oxcart/Examination%20of%20Conscience.pdf
 
captainmike said:
is that an anglican church?
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No, it’s a Canadian union of Presbyterians, Methodists, and Congregationalists. (At one point, there was talk of uniting with Anglicans, as well, but the talks fell through.)
 
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