I don't like NFP

[Princess_Abby]

I have done both Sympto-Thermal and Creighton, as well as an in-between time of just looking for symptoms but not charting (which I don’t recommend because most people need the structure of seeing what is happening visually on a chart, and it’s easy to believe your cycle is predictable).

I found Creighton to be very easy and extremely unintrusive, unlike Sympto-Thermal. However, it really comes down to personal preference. In the beginning of my marriage, I hated checking my temperature at the same time every morning and I hated the internal checks, too. Plus, my temperature varied greatly because we love our room to be cold but to sleep with lots of blankets and covers. So, if I threw off my covers in the middle of the night, I would wake up like an ice cube and it would affect my temperature. Or, if I slept snugly under the covers I would wake up and be extremely warm. Aside from all that, while I was working at the time, my mornings were not a set schedule and I did not like missing out on sleep time when I had often been on-call the entire night before–just to check my temp.

With Creighton, it’s extremely easy. All I do is check signs when I use the restroom–not internally, simply what shows up on the toilet paper. Then at bedtime I pick the right sticker and mark what I saw during the day, underneath. There is a symbol system (with a key on the back of the chart) and it literally takes five seconds.

NFP recording does not have to be hard. Yes, abstaining takes patience and sacrifice. But how is it unnatural to simply notice what your body is or is not producing and make note of it? I certainly don’t think filling one’s body with chemicals is an equivalent for embracing “natural” fertility!! (as one other poster implied.)

To the OP, please look into Creighton! It’s simple and so easy.

 

[MamaSusie]

Celia:

I wonder if maybe you are using the STM? It doesn’t involve checking anything “down there” first thing in the morning. I was taught to check anytime during the day that was convenient, cervix and mucus. Is that wrong? (I don’t do the cervix thing, so I’m not really sure.) I thought you were supposed to be “up and around” for a while before you did any checking of…stuff.
(sorry, this is a little off topic. )

I was taught to check the fluids (geez sounds like we’re talking about cars, not bodies) first thing in the morning before moving a muscle. The reasoning was that the mucus can take on a different consistency throughout the day. For example, maybe this is TMI, but that “egg white” fertile consistancy is normal for me almost every day…but not first thing in the morning.

 

[tiny_smommy]

Thanks for all your posts.

I use Creighten model, and it is very easy. I don’t do any of the temp taking or internal stuff at all. I probably wouldn’t do it if I was supposed to. If I were sick or something, then it would be a blessing, because then at least my husband and I could have sex sometimes without jeopardizing my health. And if I happened to get pregnant then God must have a plan.

I feel pressured from all sides to use NFP. My husband’s family is Catholic, but they all think that the Church is crazy. They’re from Italy and they’ve seen A LOT of Church corruption, so they don’t have very much respect for her teaching authority. Their Catholicism is a series of quaint devotions to Jesus and the saints. They are simple Southerners, but their attitudes rubbed off on their college educated, Americanized kids. So I refuse to use any birth control, but I’m willing to compromise with NFP, and my husband has the attitude that everything should be run as efficiently as possible, including the “spacing” of children. If we have the ability to calculate every birth so things work out best for everybody, then according to his logic we would be fools not to. It’s not an irrational request, so I go along with it. He knows how I feel, but I can’t make him have sex with me. I could, but then I would feel manipulative, and it’s just not the same. And I’m not going to lie and say that I’m not fertile when I suspect that I am.

The Orthodox/Byzantine view of the purpose of marriage is the mutual salvation of souls. We are supposed to ensure that the other one gets to heaven, and a natural extention of that goal applies to the children. When an Eastern priest councils a marrying couple he tells them not to use any artifical birth control, and NFP is okay for “spacing,” but letting God and nature take its course is preferred. I think this is true for Roman Catholicism too. Many of the Eastern saints were married, and most of them lived in celibacy for the latter parts of their lives, for spiritual and temporal reasons. Necessity closes a physical door and God then opens a spiritual window. Mary and Joseph lived celibate, so I guess Jesus’s stepfather had grounds for an annulment in the Catholic Church.

Unfortunately society has a huge impact on the lives of all families, and I just wish we lived in a genuinely pro-life culture that truely celebrated all life from natural conception to natural death.

 

[papa_k]

tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:

After my first son we went to NFP classes, the whole bit, and I learned the method, and it seems to work, but I don’t like it. I think it’s bad for marriage. I liked it better when I wasn’t obsessed with vaginal discharge. I liked it better when we just had sex like a man and a wife and always knew that there was a chance that we might get pregnant. I would rather have 12 kids and then vow to remain celebate until menopause than continue trying to cheat God and nature month after month, becaus that’s what it feels like. When we got married we weren’t going to use any birth control. We were just going to be a good Catholic family with lots of kids. And now there is all this pressure to use NFP and I can’t stand it. I can’t stand my husband asking me, “will you get pregnant today?” And I’m thinking, “I hope so.” In the classes they always stress a husband respecting his wife’s fertility. What about a wife celebrating her own fertility? I would rather never have sex again than continue to play this stupid game.

I often feel EXACTLY like Tiny’(name removed by moderator)my. My wife and I practice this to some degree, and I credit NFP with our ever-growing family. Ironic? Maybe. You see, I like NFP best when we are pushing it, or outright failing at it. The time you want it most is the time that is “off limits”. Is that marriage? I never felt it was unitive, and I always felt marriage is ordered to conjugality, not this drastic measure, which was intended for the exception, but has turned into what it is supposed to be against. A loophole form of birth control with a general birth control mentality, and the result of it is a “traditional” catholic family of 2.3 kids, and a speed boat and most catholics I know are openely anti-having-more-kids, and they amazingly get a second HUGE dog (call it their “baby”) before they’d even fathom being pregnant with a human soul. Our moral compass is spinning wildly, and I partly blame NFP for making us feel like we are “in the good” when we are being selfish. I also hate the idea that my parish family may be chock full of repressed, “interested” husbands with pent up energy, thinking who knows what about my dw in their hearts, all thanks to the wall between them and their own dw, and their so-called agreement to not have sex for (dare I venture there, probably no good reason). Sorry, but this has been building up a long time, and I had to vent or I will go crazy. God just didn’t mean for us to be going to the outer limits to skate around the procreative first nature of marriage. When you feel in the mood, it is for a reason. I cannot imagine any saints being into this.

 

[manualman]

tiny, there a couple of orthodox priests over in the Eastern forum who will tell you that contraception is just fine and dandy as long as its not abortive. So I’m not sure where you are coming from on that. You must be referring to Eastern Catholics (Byzantine) which is quite different from Orthodox.

Billings method is another that is mucus-only based. We’ve gotten so comfortable with it, that we don’t use charts at all. My wife just checks mucus every time she uses the toilet. Once the mucus appears, it’s abstinant cuddle-only time until three days after the mucus stops being slippery/stretchy.

But we also have the luxury of having only a borderline serious reason (mamma thinks she might go nuts with another in the house!). Really, neither of us would be heartbroken if the method ‘failed’ right now.

For the first YEAR+, I hated NFP and did it only out of sullen obedience. It STINKS that we need to abstain when she’s the most interested! But you DO learn to compensate. And it CAN help the man especially to be disciplined in making sure that he’s putting in efforts to meet all her needs, not just getting what he wants!

 

[tiny_smommy]

Eastern Catholic is not quite different from Orthodox! I’m agasp! Orthodox who are orthodox are opposed to birth control. I’ve read several pastoral letters from Orthodox priests and bishops on the subject. They all stress the mutual salvation of souls and celibacy if it is beneficial to this end, and only if it is beneficial to this end.

 

[rayne89]

Nobody has to practice NFP.

For us NFP has wonderful for our marriage. It would be very dangerous for me to get pregnant again do to heart problem. I certainly would not want to be celibate for the rest of our marriage, I’m only 33. During fertile periods we’ve learned to show affection in other ways, and I kind of enjoy my “off time” so by the time we can been intimate again I’m very much looking forward to it. Kind of like absence makes the heart grow fonder.

No one is compelled to use NFP but just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it bad for everyone.

 

[legeorge]

I’m with you OP! I quit charting months and months ago. I didn’t think I had a good reason, even though DH is a little wary of the money situation. I reassured him, and we are not too careful anymore. Funny thing is, we haven’t gotten pregnant and my youngest is almost 3! I guess it really is in God’s hands. If he wants us to have another child, we will. If not, we won’t. Just because you are a young, fertile woman, doesn’t mean you will constantly be pregnant. I thought I would because it was so easy with my other kids. Come March, they will be 12, 8, 6, and 3. We didn’t even know about NFP until after our fourth child was born! Just let go, and let God!

 

[ConcernCatholic]

Princess_Abby:

With Creighton, it’s extremely easy. All I do is check signs when I use the restroom–not internally, simply what shows up on the toilet paper. Then at bedtime I pick the right sticker and mark what I saw during the day, underneath. There is a symbol system (with a key on the back of the chart) and it literally takes five seconds.
\QUOTE]

Ok, I have a question. Several people have recommended looking into the Creighton method. I looked at the website and it appears to be a sales pitch. Are the only signs you look at on toilet paper? The websites are telling me that it costs an initial investment of around $500 which is way too steep for me. Is there any way that you can learn it on your own. Also, do you really have to have all those follow up visits. If it costs this much, how is it any better than ABC. As for looking at toilet paper every time I go, that is no better than taking temps in my book. I refuse to do internal observations. Temp taking is the easiest for me because my husband does all the work. I think all of this fertility control stuff is rediculous. If it weren’t for a Dr. telling me that I have to wait for a while due to my recent miscarriage, I would take my chances like always. All of my signs are all over the place so it wouldn’t matter what method I was using. I know my body and I usually just have a feeling as to whether or not I am going to get pregnant without all the signs and stuff. Every time my husband and I have achieved pregnancy, we have known.

 

[Princess_Abby]

ConcernCatholic:

Ok, I have a question. .

Wow, it certainly didn’t cost us $500. I’ve never read that I’m surprised to hear it. I don’t know if they’re including a year or two’s worth of follow-up visits in that or not…but jeeze.

Our first consultation was free. We went and were explained the method by a nurse who is a liscensed fertility specialist/napro technology expert. After having the method explained we chose to pay $25 for materials. We were instructed to begin charting the next day. The nurse sat down with me and explained what our initial rules would be as we began charting–it does require a month of abstinence to begin. The “materials” is a big sheet of paper (that fits into a folder, folded over) and a thin notebook of information, steps, questions and an index of how to interpret things if you happen to be curious. (Such as if you’re wondering about whether your progesterone is low.) There are tons of examples in the chart about what specific cycles should or could look like.

On the back of the chart is a key to refer to, as well as the “rules” you’re following: no intercourse, or intercourse only every other day and only at night, etc., as you learn the program. (Abstaining every other day in the beginning is recommended so that new wives don’t mistake seminal residue for cervical mucus, but they instruct you on how to address that issue, which is very simple.) It also has a color key to show you which sticker to put down for that day, such as if you are on your period, having a dry day or saw stretchy mucus. There is also a key to record the tackiness or stretchiness of the mucus.

You observe the mucus very specifically, but it literally is just wiping before and after urination, with a piece of toilet paper folded over a couple times to be sure to get a good reading. A nurse will show you a notebook full of pictures (oh joy) to be able to discern what you’re looking for and how to test the stretch. (Literally just putting your finger on it and pulling up to see how far it goes.) You just do this every time you use the restroom and then keep a mental note if you happen to see something. Later, you’ll mark something down like “Wx2” under the sticker (again, keyed in the back to show you what you should say) and that would mean you noticed wetness, but no mucus, twice during the day.

Dr. Hilgers’ research indicates that fertility is directly related to what the woman actually secretes. He is not interested in internal checks and it is not part of the program. Creighton is just as effective as Sympto-Thermal, in case you’re worried about giving up internal checks. However, it is AMAZING what he (or any trained Creighton doctor/nurse) can figure out simply by the pattern of your cycle and even describing your period by using the key on the back. It indicates all sorts of things.

Follow-up visits for us (on the east coast) were $40 a visit. They were more frequent in the beginning (something like 2 weeks, 6 weeks, 10 weeks) or something like that but then it tapers off dramatically and you contact her when you need a new chart, where you then review the previous one. (Several cycles can fit on a chart.) At the initial follow-ups, she will go over your chart in-depth and quiz you about the method. Since only nurses teach the method, you can ask very detailed questions about what you’re seeing on your chart and she can interpret very well. There is also a special way to chart during breastfeeding to keep track and see if you are really delaying your fertility or not.

It sounds complicated, and I think that’s why they don’t explain it on their websites. However, for anyone who has any idea what they’re looking for and the natural progression of their cycle, IT IS SO EASY. It is just a day by day thing, no graphing, no interpreting,no several internal checks, no temperature taking at a set time, it just is what it is, built into the rhythm of your day. You act accordingly and follow a couple of their hard and fast rules. All you do at the end of the day is pick a sticker and record what you saw using their system.

Also, if you decide to do Creighton, the nurse will fill out a document about your medical and fertility history and if at some point you want to see a Creighton-trained doctor, they can look at that document. It also records the meetings you have with your practioner.

 

[tamccrackine]

ConcernCatholic:

I usually think it is the greatest thing in the world but right now it is a real thorn in my side because I just had a miscarriage and it is impossible to get a base line temp. My temps and cycles are so regular that I can go by temps alone. I don’t really have to do anything but open my mouth in the morning. My hubby wakes up every morning at 6 AM and takes the temps and records them. I just prepare a new chart each month. I am not open to getting PG right now because the Dr. says I have to avoid it at all costs until the pregnancy hormones are down to zero. So, I have to abstain for who knows how long or find an alternative. This has left me very frustrated because my husband and I are usually very active. The depression after the miscarriage has left us needing to reunite physically. NFP is horrible in this case. After giving birth, I can rely on nursing to space my children without resorting to NFP. Now, I can’t use NFP because the temps are all over the place and I don’t have a baby to nurse frequently enough to delay my fertility. I have to agree that NFP stinks

I’m very sorry for your miscarriage. Have you talked to the doctor and asked why he/she is so concerned about the pregnancy hormone being back down to zero? My personal view on it is that after I suffered a miscarriage in 2004, at 14 weeks, my doc said no relations for six weeks. I looked at him an asked why and he gave me the same excuse as why you don’t have relations after giving birth. Now how many of you can honestly say you’ve waited the full six weeks? I personally feel that if you feel you are ok physically, mentally, emotionally to engage in a unitive sense… then I’d go for it. And if you become pregnant, then that’s alright too.

I’m not advocating to throw out a doctors’ advice, but if having relations with my husband was very detrimental to my mental and emotional help as it would help me get out of the funk from a miscarriage… then I’m all about going for it.

And I agree about NFP being a bit hard to maintain. Thanks to the other posters with advice on other methods. I wasn’t aware that there are other methods. I’m doing pretty good if I even remember that there is a thermometer by my bed, let alone take my temp. And then I’m doing great if I write it down!!! It’s insane! I’ll have to check out the Creighton method… sounds right up my alley seeing how I’ve used that method three times now to get pregnant. And i didn’t even know it had a name!

 

[ConcernCatholic]

tamccrackine:

I’m very sorry for your miscarriage. Have you talked to the doctor and asked why he/she is so concerned about the pregnancy hormone being back down to zero? My personal view on it is that after I suffered a miscarriage in 2004, at 14 weeks, my doc said no relations for six weeks. I looked at him an asked why and he gave me the same excuse as why you don’t have relations after giving birth. Now how many of you can honestly say you’ve waited the full six weeks? I personally feel that if you feel you are ok physically, mentally, emotionally to engage in a unitive sense… then I’d go for it. And if you become pregnant, then that’s alright too.

I understand the Dr’s concern. I actually researched the ER findings before going to see an OB/GYN. It wasn’t a complete miscarriage. The fetus passed away a couple of months before my body decided to expel it at 14 weeks. The differential diagnosis was a missed miscarriage or molar pregnancy. They want to be sure that all residual tissue is gone. If it is not, then they will have to do a DNC. I definitely don’t follow doctors orders unless there is a super good reason. After giving birth, I am lucky if I can make it 2 weeks My husband and I like to renew our marriage covenant as often as possible!!!

 

[tamccrackine]

ConcernCatholic:

I understand the Dr’s concern. I actually researched the ER findings before going to see an OB/GYN. It wasn’t a complete miscarriage. The fetus passed away a couple of months before my body decided to expel it at 14 weeks. The differential diagnosis was a missed miscarriage or molar pregnancy. They want to be sure that all residual tissue is gone. If it is not, then they will have to do a DNC. I definitely don’t follow doctors orders unless there is a super good reason. After giving birth, I am lucky if I can make it 2 weeks My husband and I like to renew our marriage covenant as often as possible!!!

ah… ok… that explains it then. I had a miscarriage at 14 weeks but I had to have a D&C. I guess I’m just not seeing why the numbers would have to go down as that’ll take time anyway. It does even after a pregnancy. They can’t tell if everything has passed unless they do an ultrasound.

I don’t know… sometimes Doc’s do some weird things that I really don’t understand… that’s why they went to med school and I didn’t.

 

[armywife]

FYI

The Billings method is almost the same as Creighton and on the Billings website you can download a chart and keep it on your computer’s desktop. Or print it out. That’s what I did, but now I don’t even chart anymore… just check the signs during the day.

Of course my husband has been deployed for almost a year so I need to start paying attention again before he get’s home or number four is going to come pretty quickly.

 

[Celia]

MamaSusie:

I was taught to check the fluids (geez sounds like we’re talking about cars, not bodies) first thing in the morning before moving a muscle. The reasoning was that the mucus can take on a different consistency throughout the day. For example, maybe this is TMI, but that “egg white” fertile consistancy is normal for me almost every day…but not first thing in the morning.

Hmm. I think I’ll have to pull out the ol’ Kippley manual and see what i can see. I just check any time during the day I happen to think of it, once or maybe twice if I was unlear about it the last time. Usually before bed and mid-morning. I haven’t had any trouble.
I don’t do the cervix observation because…I don’t want to but I though especially with that that you had to give it time because laying down for such an amount of time changes it’s position and alters your readings. Maybe that was just a theory though…I’ll have to look it up. Thanks!

 

[ConcernCatholic]

tamccrackine:

ah… ok… that explains it then. I had a miscarriage at 14 weeks but I had to have a D&C. I guess I’m just not seeing why the numbers would have to go down as that’ll take time anyway. It does even after a pregnancy. They can’t tell if everything has passed unless they do an ultrasound.

I don’t know… sometimes Doc’s do some weird things that I really don’t understand… that’s why they went to med school and I didn’t.

They want to make sure that it isn’t a molar pregnancy which is basically a mass that mimicks pregnancy by making your body produce pregnancy hormones. If I were to get pregnant, that would confuse the results and they might end up doing a DNC on a viable pregnancy rather than a mass of grapelike stuff. Today, the uterus can be clean but these lumps/masses can grow back. If the hormones zero out, then they can be certain that it wasn’t a molar pregnancy. The Dr. doesn’t think that this is the case but wants to be sure that it is not so that it doesn’t interfere with future fertility. Of course, just because I understand it doesn’t mean I have to like it.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Nothing says you must practice NFP! You may find it helpful someday in the future, especially if you develop a life threatening illness which would make pregnancy and or delivery dangerous. That is when NFP is a blessing in marriage. Why are you practicing NFP if you arent’ trying to either “space” pregnancies or use it to increase your fertility? Be thankful that you and your husband are able to have as many children as God wants to give you, and that you are both open to life. You already answered your question. You know how to practice NFP if you ever need it, so just stop using it and rejoice in your marriage and fertility, and all the blessings and surprises to come!

Having another baby would be extremely dangerous for me. That doesnt’ mean I wouldn’t love to have more babies, but some couples need NFP for medical purposes. Some use it to space pregnancies, or because they are living on the poverty line, so having as many babies as possible is not their best option. I miss the early days of not needing to prevent pregnancy for medical reasons! Enjoy and rejoice in that part of your life while you can!

 

[matthias]

This is the first place to start I think. Perhaps there is an underlying problem?

LSK:

And of course the next question is…does YOUR HUSBAND feel as you do?

tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:

After my first son we went to NFP classes, the whole bit, and I learned the method, and it seems to work, but I don’t like it. I think it’s bad for marriage…

…now there is all this pressure to use NFP and I can’t stand it. I can’t stand my husband asking me, “will you get pregnant today?” And I’m thinking, “I hope so.” In the classes they always stress a husband respecting his wife’s fertility. What about a wife celebrating her own fertility? I would rather never have sex again than continue to play this stupid game.

I think the next big question is this…
WHY are you practicing NFP?

I have read that…
somewhere???:

NFP is not moral unless accompanied by a grave reason for deferring children. The means may be moral but the end requires the application of the principle of double effect and the existence of a grave reason.

 

[MamaSusie]

Celia:

Hmm. I think I’ll have to pull out the ol’ Kippley manual and see what i can see. I just check any time during the day I happen to think of it, once or maybe twice if I was unlear about it the last time. Usually before bed and mid-morning. I haven’t had any trouble.
I don’t do the cervix observation because…I don’t want to but I though especially with that that you had to give it time because laying down for such an amount of time changes it’s position and alters your readings. Maybe that was just a theory though…I’ll have to look it up. Thanks!

Well, let me know what you find out! I would love to NOT set my alarm for 4 am on the weekends!

 

[tiny_smommy]

I have a second post in this thread, outlining why we are using NFP, but nobody has commented on it, so I don’t know if anybody read it or not. The thread kind of deteriorated into talking about mucus again.

We are using it for “spacing” because that’s what my husband wants to do. I’m his wife, right? He makes the decisions. There has been some debate on this thread as to whether or not there must be “grave” reasons. Some people say that “spacing” for any reason is acceptable. That’s also what we were taught in NFP class. My husband would say that it is gravely necessary to “space” the children to make sure that everything works out as smoothly as possible. We are not wealthy. Technically I don’t even think we are middle class!

If anybody has the time to read my second thread and has some advice, I’d appreciate it.