"I don't need baptism"

[nickybr38]

How would you explain baptism to someone who ‘doesn’t get the point’ of it?

My non-denominational friend recently revealed to me that she just doesn’t get the point of baptism and so has never been baptised. I attempted to explain to her why it was necessary but everything I said did not help. I left her with the story of Jesus approaching John the Baptist.

How can I help her understand why baptism IS important as a Christian?

I shared with her that Baptism is a cleansing and it is through Baptism that we receive the Holy Spirit, to which she responded the Holy Spirit cannot be forced into that kind of neat little box. I was left a bit stumped as to how to proceed from there so I just reminded her about Jesus’ baptism.

Keep in mind she has very little knowledge of Church history, no respect for ‘tradition’ and does not attend any church. She identifies as Christian and yet openly admits to knowing very little about Christianity. She has challenged me to help her understand and I gladly took this challenge but I need a little help with research.

So guys? A little help?

 

[JohnDamian]

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4

A Christian is a follower of Christ. Jesus himself was baptised; and we too are baptised to wash away our sin’s and to unite us so we can walk in the light of Christianity and the Church; to be freed from the burden of sin so we may be better people. The baptism is; an “outward sign of inward Grace” as St Augustine put’s it; through the ceremony we are outwardly washed; and inwardly clensed - we are freed from the guilt and burden of our sin; so we can be fully Christian.

 

[SonCatcher]

Aside from the saving grace that baptism imparts, it also signifies to the church and the world that you accept and receive the Christian faith (the other side of the coin to the Church receiving you).

 

[PJM]

=nickybr38;6868736]How would you explain baptism to someone who ‘doesn’t get the point’ of it?

My non-denominational friend recently revealed to me that she just doesn’t get the point of baptism and so has never been baptised. I attempted to explain to her why it was necessary but everything I said did not help. I left her with the story of Jesus approaching John the Baptist.

How can I help her understand why baptism IS important as a Christian?

I shared with her that Baptism is a cleansing and it is through Baptism that we receive the Holy Spirit, to which she responded the Holy Spirit cannot be forced into that kind of neat little box. I was left a bit stumped as to how to proceed from there so I just reminded her about Jesus’ baptism.

Keep in mind she has very little knowledge of Church history, no respect for ‘tradition’ and does not attend any church. She identifies as Christian and yet openly admits to knowing very little about Christianity. She has challenged me to help her understand and I gladly took this challenge but I need a little help with research.

So guys? A little help?

DOES SHE ACCEPT THE BIBLE?

John.3: 5"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

WHY?

Jesus Himself was baptized to show how important it is.

Some of the benefits of Christian Baptism are…

Forgiveness of all sins and the lasting effects of sin

“Incorporation into Christ” Makes one an “adopted child of God”

Baptism is the foundation of the entire Christian Life

Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship.

Becomming part of the Community of Believers

Those born through Baptism can also die with Christ

Love and prayers,
Pat

Possible access to heaven

 

[nickybr38]

DOES SHE ACCEPT THE BIBLE?

John.3: 5"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Yay!!! I’m so glad to see you responding. I will share that verse with her. I haven’t discussed baptism with her since the original discussion, instead we’ve covered Saints (what they are - in my own limited language) and what Protestants are. She didn’t know!!!

It is very intimidating dealing with a non-denominational Christian. I feel very, very sorry for my sister who had to deal with me during that phase!!!

 

[smithm29]

If she has not been baptized, she is not a nondenominational Christian. She’s more properly a heathen or “non-believer”.

 

[beegirl]

Here are some more verses you could share with her…

*Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Mark 1:4-5
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, **eight souls were saved by water. **
The like figure whereunto even **baptism doth also now save us **(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.*

Sorry if i repeated anything mentioned by someone else
hope these are helpful

 

[nickybr38]

If she has not been baptized, she is not a nondenominational Christian. She’s more properly a heathen or “non-believer”.

I disagree with this statement quite strongly and would never EVER tell her such a thing.

Beegirl - Thank you. I will bombard her! Mwaha! She has given me permission to share verses with her so this is the perfect solution.

 

[smithm29]

How do you disagree with it? It is the prime sacrament of imitation- without receiving it, a person is not received into the community and is not a Christian.

Exultate Deo:
"Holy Baptism holds the first place among the sacraments, because it is the door of the spiritual life; for by it we are made members of Christ and incorporated with the Church. "

Later on, in the same document:
“The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all sin, original and actual; likewise of all punishment which is due for sin.”

 

[nickybr38]

How do you disagree with it? It is the prime sacrament of imitation- without receiving it, a person is not received into the community and is not a Christian.

Exultate Deo:
"Holy Baptism holds the first place among the sacraments, because it is the door of the spiritual life; for by it we are made members of Christ and incorporated with the Church. "

Later on, in the same document:
“The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all sin, original and actual; likewise of all punishment which is due for sin.”

I disagree with going around telling people that they are not Christian’s, especially when they have obeyed the ‘laws’ of their particular Church. Protestants do NOT teach that you MUST be baptised to be Christian, she doesn’t know, and to tell her she is not Christian would be inflammatory and combative. It would NOT be helpful.

Besides which, the term Christian means simply those who are trying to follow Christ to the outside world. You cannot use Catholic definition when dealing with a Protestant. The languages are different.

 

[smithm29]

I didn’t say to go and call her a heathen Hopefully you can tell her the truth (that she is not a Christian) in a loving way.

I said that she is not a Christian because she has not been baptized. That’s true. I can’t think of a single group of legitimate Protestants who say “don’t get baptized- there’s no point”. They may say that it’s not essential for salvation, but they’ll still tell you to do it because Jesus says that you must do it- a discipline rather than a sacrament. I don’t know what the essential difference is using their definitions, but it’s still a required rite. “Unbaptized Christians” are not possible, by any definition. (Outside of martyrs, etc…)

[BIBLEdrB]1 Corinthians 12:13[/BIBLEdrB]

 

[nickybr38]

Actually the church she grew up in taught just that… which is, baptism is not needed.

BUT I have an update! An exciting update! I shared the verses you guys gave me here. I said NOTHING else, just gave her the verses and she now wants to be baptised! She’s not sure where to go though. She is still anti-Catholic but desires baptism. Would it be wrong for me to help her find a church (other then the Catholic - although I will try to gently sway her that way) that will baptise her? I’d really like to help her with this. I have full confidence the Holy Spirit will guide her as needed after baptism but I have to be very very careful so as not to turn her away.

I know the Church teaches that any baptism (whether performed in a Catholic church or not) that follows the proper form is valid so would it be wrong for me to assist her in this?

Help!

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Actually the church she grew up in taught just that… which is, baptism is not needed.

BUT I have an update! An exciting update! I shared the verses you guys gave me here. I said NOTHING else, just gave her the verses and she now wants to be baptised! She’s not sure where to go though. She is still anti-Catholic but desires baptism. Would it be wrong for me to help her find a church (other then the Catholic - although I will try to gently sway her that way) that will baptise her? I’d really like to help her with this. I have full confidence the Holy Spirit will guide her as needed after baptism but I have to be very very careful so as not to turn her away.

I know the Church teaches that any baptism (whether performed in a Catholic church or not) that follows the proper form is valid so would it be wrong for me to assist her in this?

Help!

Ask your priest whether YOU may baptize her, if she wont allow your priest to do it. Let her know that the Priest baptizing her does not make her Catholic, only allows her entry in the love of Christ and grants her the gift of the Holy Spirit.

FSC

 

[nickybr38]

Ask your priest whether YOU may baptize her, if she wont allow your priest to do it. Let her know that the Priest baptizing her does not make her Catholic, only allows her entry in the love of Christ and grants her the gift of the Holy Spirit.

FSC

It’s funny you should suggest that because I just fired off an email to the Sister I’ve been dealing with asking her advice on the situation. It’s just such a delicate situation I like filling myself with as much information as I can before moving forward. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable performing a baptism at this point.

I have not yet been confirmed into the Catholic Church and have not been to Confession since I was baptised (it’s been 19 years since my baptism) as a result of this. I’m pretty dirty with sin at this point, the Holy Spirit has been kind enough to show me that.

However, wouldn’t the Priest require she attend RCIA before being baptised? Isn’t that kind of a prerequisite? Does the Church ever baptise people who have no intention of being Catholic? It seems to me the only way she’ll get baptised is to find a Protestant minister who will perform the baptism for her…? But I don’t know.

I was nine when I was baptised… I don’t remember the legalities.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

It’s funny you should suggest that because I just fired off an email to the Sister I’ve been dealing with asking her advice on the situation. It’s just such a delicate situation I like filling myself with as much information as I can before moving forward. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable performing a baptism at this point.

I have not yet been confirmed into the Catholic Church and have not been to Confession since I was baptised (it’s been 19 years since my baptism) as a result of this. I’m pretty dirty with sin at this point, the Holy Spirit has been kind enough to show me that.

However, wouldn’t the Priest require she attend RCIA before being baptised? Isn’t that kind of a prerequisite? Does the Church ever baptise people who have no intention of being Catholic? It seems to me the only way she’ll get baptised is to find a Protestant minister who will perform the baptism for her…? But I don’t know.

I was nine when I was baptised… I don’t remember the legalities.

Well, as far as you being “dirty with sin”, I wouldnt stress over that. Two pagans can baptize each other provided the form and intent are there. Plus, what is baptism? oh yeah, for the remission of sins!!! Dont stress over that, but ask your priest first.

As to the second part, whether a priest would baptize someone with no intention of becoming Catholic… Im not certain on that. You could PM NewEnglandPries and ask him whether it would be “doable” but I dont think it would be a problem. Baptism is your entrance into the Christian life, so, IMHO, as long as her intentions are correct I cant see a problem with it. Perhaps her own pastor would do it?

FSC

 

[SonCatcher]

It’s funny you should suggest that because I just fired off an email to the Sister I’ve been dealing with asking her advice on the situation. It’s just such a delicate situation I like filling myself with as much information as I can before moving forward. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable performing a baptism at this point.

I have not yet been confirmed into the Catholic Church and have not been to Confession since I was baptised (it’s been 19 years since my baptism) as a result of this. I’m pretty dirty with sin at this point, the Holy Spirit has been kind enough to show me that.

However, wouldn’t the Priest require she attend RCIA before being baptised? Isn’t that kind of a prerequisite? Does the Church ever baptise people who have no intention of being Catholic? It seems to me the only way she’ll get baptised is to find a Protestant minister who will perform the baptism for her…? But I don’t know.

I was nine when I was baptised… I don’t remember the legalities.

So get thee to confession!

I think there is generally a requirement that you intend to teach her to be Catholic and that she intend to follow Catholic teaching for a Catholic to baptize. There is an exception (covered below).

Well, as far as you being “dirty with sin”, I wouldnt stress over that. Two pagans can baptize each other provided the form and intent are there. Plus, what is baptism? oh yeah, for the remission of sins!!! Dont stress over that, but ask your priest first.

As to the second part, whether a priest would baptize someone with no intention of becoming Catholic… Im not certain on that. You could PM NewEnglandPries and ask him whether it would be “doable” but I dont think it would be a problem. Baptism is your entrance into the Christian life, so, IMHO, as long as her intentions are correct I cant see a problem with it. Perhaps her own pastor would do it?

FSC

Generally, for a Catholic to baptize, he must intend to teach the convert the full faith. However, in the case of dire need (usually meaning the convert is at risk of dying), even a staunch anti-Catholic may be baptized. My pastor related in a retreat how he once baptized a strongly anti-Catholic person. She was bedridden and dying. Every Protestant church was willing to perform the baptism - by immersion - at the church. Both requirements were impossible to meet so in desperation she called the Catholic church. My pastor showed up, baptized her (I think he may also have confirmed, anointed, given her first communion as viaticum). She died that night, perfectly spotless.

It doesn’t have to be quite that serious, however. A current question in the “Ask An Apologist” forum also deals with baptism in time of necessity.

 

[nickybr38]

As far as we know she’s not dying so I’m not sure it would be considered a matter of dire need.

I won’t go to Confession until I’m confirmed in the Church. ):

I will await the Sister’s answer and see what she thinks then figure out where to go next.

Honestly I was NOT expecting this! Haha. I expected a long drawn out debate not almost immediate acceptance once seeing where in the Bible it says we must be baptised!

PS: She does not currently attend any church. She just moved here and has not yet decided where to attend.

 

[SonCatcher]

As far as we know she’s not dying so I’m not sure it would be considered a matter of dire need.

I won’t go to Confession until I’m confirmed in the Church. ):

I will await the Sister’s answer and see what she thinks then figure out where to go next.

Honestly I was NOT expecting this! Haha. I expected a long drawn out debate not almost immediate acceptance once seeing where in the Bible it says we must be baptised!

PS: She does not currently attend any church. She just moved here and has not yet decided where to attend.

I might have confused you with another board member. I thought you were baptized in the Catholic church and then fell away. If that were the case, then confession should certainly be available. Sorry if I upset you.

 

[nickybr38]

I might have confused you with another board member. I thought you were baptized in the Catholic church and then fell away. If that were the case, then confession should certainly be available. Sorry if I upset you.

Oh no! You didn’t upset me at all! I was born and raised Protestant… and then fell away. My family is anti-Catholic. I’ve made the decision not to partake of any sacraments until I’m confirmed in the Church. Honestly I’m really impatient and eager to partake of these things but I feel I have to do things in their proper order.

In the meantime I have many ‘luke-warm’ friends, who were just like I was six months ago, and I’ve been sharing my newfound fire with them. One by one I’m warming them all up. Well, not me… of course I do nothing except what God allows me to do.

 

[PJM]

=beegirl;6891782]Here are some more verses you could share with her…

*Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Mark 1:4-5
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.*
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, **eight souls were saved by water. **
The like figure whereunto even **baptism doth also now save us **(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Sorry if i repeated anything mentioned by someone else
hope these are helpful

Might I suggest with John 3:5?