I don't really understand the story of Judas

[brandon_ross]

Did Judas had a chance of going to heaven? Because, Jesus already knew days before that Judas would betray him… Did Judas had free will?.. Was Judas forced to betray Jesus so that Jesus could die for us?.. Help me please

 

[pohandes]

He Betrayed and then Regretted. what is the problem? He of course did both, with free will.

 

[RhodesianSon]

Judas made a choice, knowing the choice Judas would make God incorporated the betrayal into His plan. But no, Judas was not forced into his decision.

Judas had the same chance of Heaven we all do.

 

[Vico]

Did Judas had a chance of going to heaven? Because, Jesus already knew days before that Judas would betray him… Did Judas had free will?.. Was Judas forced to betray Jesus so that Jesus could die for us?.. Help me please

Matthew 26

24 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born. 25 And Judas that betrayed him, answering, said: Is it I, Rabbi? He saith to him: Thou hast said it.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Judas had a choice.
Jesus knew in advance what choice he would make. Jesus had a divine as well as a human nature, so he knew this for sure. That doesn’t mean he or God somehow compelled Judas’s choice.
Judas had free will.

I think even those of us who don’t have a divine nature can predict pretty well how people that we are close to will react in a given situation, because we know them.

As for where Judas ended up, we don’t know. The Church does not definitively teach that he is in hell. For all we know, he repented at the last moment and was sent to Purgatory or even to Heaven.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Contrast Judas with St Peter. Both sinned. Judas could have come to the foot of the cross with true repentance instead fell into despair and hanged himself. St Peter repented and after crying his eyes out, was strengthened by Jesus himself. Free will is always at play.

 

[Crusader13]

Did Judas had a chance of going to heaven? Because, Jesus already knew days before that Judas would betray him… Did Judas had free will?.. Was Judas forced to betray Jesus so that Jesus could die for us?.. Help me please

My former pastor once told me during confession, “the only difference between Judas and Peter, is that Peter repented”.

Even after Judas betrayed Jesus, the opportunity to seek forgiveness was always available. Unfortunately for Judas he didn’t seek forgiveness for what he had done, at least we are never told that he did.

However, Scripture is pretty clear that Judas did not end up in Heaven.

 

[truthseeker]

Did Judas had a chance of going to heaven?

Yes, if he had of repented. God didn’t force Judas to betray Jesus, because God is outside of time and Jesus is God; Jesus knew ahead of time, what would happen and what decisions Judas would make, he even knew he wouldn’t repent therefore he would be damned.

Matthew 26:24
"The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

 

[JSRG]

Was Judas forced to betray Jesus so that Jesus could die for us?

While this has been used as a criticism of Christianity by some, to say it’s unfair to condemn Judas for doing what was necessary for the salvation of others (the crucifixion/resurrection). But this doesn’t add up because the soteriological requirement was the crucifixion and resurrection, not the betrayal. Jesus could have absolutely been arrested, tried, and crucified without any help from Judas. Judas’ betrayal may have been the way it went, but it wasn’t required, and thus there is little reason to believe that Judas was in any way “forced” to do it so that Jesus could die.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

However, Scripture is pretty clear that Judas did not end up in Heaven.

If Scripture was that clear, then the Church would teach that Judas was in hell.

The Church doesn’t teach it. So it’s not clear.

 

[Crusader13]

If Scripture was that clear, then the Church would teach that Judas was in hell.

The Church doesn’t teach it. So it’s not clear.

You’re right, in that the Church has not officially declared Judas to be in hell. The Church also hasn’t officially declared that he’s in heaven or purgatory.

And more importantly, the Church hasn’t officially declared that we don’t know where he is. The mere absence of an official position is the main reason and argument people give for saying “we don’t know where Judas is”.

I don’t believe Scripture is as silent or ambiguous as some clergy are on this matter. The Scripture passages may not meet your required level of certainty, but for some early Church fathers and popes, the scriptures are strongly implicit, if not explicit, on this matter and they safely taught that Judas is in hell.

I don’t believe it’s wrong or presumptuous to teach such a position. On the contrary, to say that we don’t know, is more disingenuous, because it ignores Scripture and those popes and Church fathers who’ve taught on the subject.

However, I won’t waste your time in citing scripture or attempting to quote the sources directly to you, because in the past you’ve merely shrugged these arguments off as opinions and then you say you’re done talking about it and after one or two posts you mute the thread.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

However, I won’t waste your time in citing scripture or attempting to quote the sources directly to you, because in the past you’ve merely shrugged these arguments off as opinions and then you say you’re done talking about it and after one or two posts you mute the thread

Because they are opinions. Opinion doesn’t mean a wild guess. You can still cite arguments in favor of your opinion. You just have to recognize there’s never been a conclusive declaration.

 

[Crusader13]

Crusader13:

However, I won’t waste your time in citing scripture or attempting to quote the sources directly to you, because in the past you’ve merely shrugged these arguments off as opinions and then you say you’re done talking about it and after one or two posts you mute the thread

Because they are opinions. Opinion doesn’t mean a wild guess. You can still cite arguments in favor of your opinion. You just have to recognize there’s never been a conclusive declaration.

Opinions, based not on wild guesses, as you’ve just said. They are based on arguments taken from Scripture and other sources. A body of evidence and prior teachings that would suggest that the opinion of “not knowing” does not seem as credible.

If Scripture says it were better if Judas had not been born; what other Scripture passages are there to suggest that a person’s existence is empty, even if they attained Heaven?!

I’m not saying that previous Church fathers and popes must be believed based solely upon their position, I’m saying that the level of certainty that we have for teaching that that Judas is in hell, outweighs any arguments that we don’t know where he is.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Opinions, based not on wild guesses, as you’ve just said. They are based on arguments taken from Scripture and other sources. A body of evidence and prior teachings that would suggest that the opinion of “not knowing” does not seem as credible.

If Scripture says it were better if Judas had not been born; what other Scripture passages are there to suggest that a person’s existence is empty, even if they attained Heaven?!

I’m not saying that previous Church fathers and popes must be believed based solely upon their position, I’m saying that the level of certainty that we have for teaching that that Judas is in hell, outweighs any arguments that we don’t know where he is.

Right. I understand your argument. I’m not even saying I disagree with it.

I’m just saying you can’t make a conclusive declaration because you don’t have that authority. The best you can say is “this is my opinion, which I believe to be correct for reasons A, B, and C…”

 

[Aulef]

I recommend you reflect on what Jesus Christ said about Judas in Saint Mathew 26, 24. It gives a great clue about his whereabouts

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And more importantly, the Church hasn’t officially declared that we don’t know where he is.

The Church’s official position is that we don’t know where any soul ends up, with the exception of canonized saints, only.
I can’t see where they’d make an exception just for Judas.

You can argue your own interpretation of Scripture all day, but at the end of the day, if it’s not an official Church teaching, it’s just your own opinion.

 

[SeekSalvation]

He Betrayed and then Regretted. what is the problem? He of course did both, with free will.

Such simple words when you read them. First, nobody knows anyone’s salvation; that’s the teach of the Church. But Judas did hang himself in the end. There went the ‘regret’ theory right out the door!

 

[ReaderT]

First: a good rule of the spiritual life is not to speculate/wonder about where other are in the afterlife. They are in the hands of the Merciful God - let’s leave them to Him. Better for us to concern ourselves with our own salvation, and not be overly curious about everyone else’s.

Second: @brandon_ross - Judas did have free will. I don’t know if he’s in hell. But I do know that Judas saw the miracles Jesus performed: walking on water, raising the dead. He sat at table with Lazarus after he was raised from the dead. So for him to (still) betray God, the greed in him must have been extreme.

 

[Crusader13]

Right. I understand your argument. I’m not even saying I disagree with it.

I’m just saying you can’t make a conclusive declaration because you don’t have that authority. The best you can say is “this is my opinion, which I believe to be correct for reasons A, B, and C…”

Fair enough. I think the question then becomes; without an official Church teaching, can we claim Judas is in hell?

That seems to be the real argument. Some people are of the position that you can’t say Judas is in hell, but does the absence of an official teaching mean that he’s not?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You can opine that Judas is wherever, as long as you make it clear it’s just your opinion.