I don't see how I can believe in the Church anymore

[JohnJFarren]

I am a born again Catholic. I began my spiritual life as a baby. I received very good training the old way> public school boy until 8th grade Immaculate Heart Sisters – you know, the old style you’ve heard about … except for me. I had a young nun who was FAIR and that made her a darn good one! For two weeks it was> "Public school boy, you read. “Public school, come up here!” Etc, etc etc. It really got to me, it really did. But I didn’t know what to do about it. I wanted with all my heart to be in Catholic grade and high school. Well, God found me my way. After a while along came our first very long religions test. My heart and mind gobbled up everything – and I studied hard. There were about 36 all boys in our class AND I was the only boy in the class who got 100% AND

 

[EvangelistVictor]

Sounds like you might be bound be a demonic stronghold. Demon of lusts. Very hard to break free from, but it is possible. Pray against this, or ask your local Priest to pray over you. You will be set free!!!

Remove anything visually that stimulates you also.

 

[JohnJFarren]

I cut myself OFF. Here I am again to finish my little story. AND AND AND from that day on my name was JOHN. The sister was strict but FAIR and that made all the difference. Although I continued to get into trouble … I was always a little wild and a little daring, she and I over that year grew to be close. She was warm and cared.
Now with that introduction I come to the essence of why this topic interested me All of us here posting on this topic know that Jesus Christ, a real human being, walked around with dirty feet, that his mouth stank when he got up in the morning, what he slept as we do, that he was not very, very super handsome – are you beginning to see where I’m heading? Now a look at the Church, the one that Jesus founded on Peter and his successors, the Roman Catholic Church, and those united with our “Papa,” Pope. The Church is also as Jesus, both Divine and human (even yet). The Church, certainly human, does sometimes stink. The Church – we, the people – is continuing to become, to mature, to grow. We, the Church, have not yet come to what Jesus founded us to be. Pray for the gifts of understanding our FAITH and TRUST – not blindly … we are sons and daughters of God and siblings of Jesus our Brother. We already have been Gifted to have the Holy Spirit as OUR Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit IS MY Holy Spirit … and YOURS! Scripture tells us that we must walk by FAITH and not by sight (understanding everything) I share with all us who believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and who confess this belief one way or another. I Pray for you … please Pray for me. John

 

[leonhardprintz]

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying, but thank you for your post and thank you for the prayers.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Sounds like you might be bound be a demonic stronghold.

Unless given very, very good reasons and that by a spiritual advisor, I will not seek out an exorcist. I will if a spiritual advisor advices this though.

I am somewhat dubious about it, as, and this is as far as I understand Catholic doctrine, demons can’t force a person to sin. And God won’t allow them to tempt a man above his ability.

Remove anything visually that stimulates you also.

Can you give specific concrete examples?

 

[Limoncello4021]

I remember once many years ago thinking how much easier life would be if I just gave up on Catholicism. Then I could do what I wanted! Freedom!
HA! If there’s one thing you will eventually learn, it is Jesus who frees us from the slavery of our own selves.
You’ve been given great advice in this thread. I see a couple of things to emphasize.

1. You’ve got to completely sever your tie to the sinful source. If it is a computer, even if you are a computer programmer, you need to cut it from your life. No excuses. Jesus is uncompromising here: if your eye offend, cut it out.
2. If you cut yourself off from the Church you cut yourself off from the source of grace. Don’t do it.
3. You have not yet resisted to the point of bloodshed. Why are you quitting early? Be honest, why? For your own comfort?
4. I see a lot of scrupulosity in your description of what you’ve done and your state of mind. Fear and rule bound adherence to the Church leads to misery. No wonder you want to get out! But Catholicism is not that at all. It is love, mercy, thanksgiving, joy.
5. I don’t see love of Mary here. Are you saying the Rosary daily? It is impossible to say the daily Rosary and continue in sin, especially sins of purity. Either you will give up sin or give up the Rosary. Which will it be?

 

[EvangelistVictor]

Unless given very, very good reasons and that by a spiritual advisor, I will not seek out an exorcist. I will if a spiritual advisor advices this though.

I am somewhat dubious about it, as, and this is as far as I understand Catholic doctrine, demons can’t force a person to sin. And God won’t allow them to tempt a man above his ability

I’ve personally dealt with this area in my life. Demons can tempt you, and even have control over certain area’s of our lives once we let them in. You don’t need an exorcism, but just deliverance from them oppressing demons. You can be set free after going to confession, and telling the priest my problem. Then I had to remove anything that would stimulate me with provocative images. Like deleting Instagram, Facebook, etc… that can be used to seduce you.

Even pray over your house and the room these thing happen.

 

[Viki63]

I struggled with this problem when I first became a Catholic, and learned it was a sin.
What helped me was realizing that heaven is just on the other side of a thin veil separating us. There is a cloud of witnesses around us, and they see everything we do. Darkness doesn’t hide us, nothing does.
So I stopped doing anything I didn’t want Our Lady and all the saints to witness. If you seriously believe they are watching. you can’t continue.

 

[leonhardprintz]

I remember once many years ago thinking how much easier life would be if I just gave up on Catholicism. Then I could do what I wanted! Freedom!

Actually that’s pretty much what happened. I went from being out of work, poor, severely depressed and with bad health; to being happy with myself, focused on productive activities, got exercise, got a job, got promoted twice and I’m now doing much better.

My life is a country record in reverse.

You’ve got to completely sever your tie to the sinful source. If it is a computer, even if you are a computer programmer, you need to cut it from your life.

That’s a lot to ask, and right now I really don’t trust the Catholic Church enough anymore to do that. That way led to loneliness, isolation, sickness and illness. And I still masturbated multiple times per day. Computer or not.

So I’m both skeptical of whether this is enough, and I’m dubious about whether the Catholic Church actually have the graces to bestow.

If you cut yourself off from the Church you cut yourself off from the source of grace. Don’t do it

I was sick. The moment I stopped going to Church and started practicing self-acceptance, I got better. And over the coming months, as I started focusing on getting a job, I got better financially, and during the past years I’ve regained most of my mental health.

I see a lot of scrupulosity in your description of what you’ve done and your state of mind. Fear and rule bound adherence to the Church leads to misery. No wonder you want to get out! But Catholicism is not that at all. It is love, mercy, thanksgiving, joy.

And yet I got sick.

I don’t see love of Mary here. Are you saying the Rosary daily? It is impossible to say the daily Rosary and continue in sin, especially sins of purity. Either you will give up sin or give up the Rosary. Which will it be?

I’m not in a habit of boasting of my devotions. But you obviously haven’t read the either the opening post or the subsequent ones. I prayed the rosary daily and it had zero effect on me. I prayed multiple rosaries per day as well at some point. And I practiced the devotion advised by St. Alphonsus de Ligouri to pray Hail Mary three times on rising and before bed. I joined the archconfraternity of the rosary, and the confraternity of the scapula.

It was also a devotion to the Blessed Virgin which was instrumental in converting me to Catholicism in the first place.

As for the challenge in the end, I saw nothing in all that time for no lack of praying. No progress, however infinitesimal.

The state of being when I stopped was not, what did you call it “thanksgiving, joy”. It was poor, depressed, ill-health, misery. I wouldn’t ask of my worst enemy to experience such a long winded crippling depression as that.

If Jesus wants his followers to feel like that, then its no wonder he doesn’t have that many friends.

 

[leonhardprintz]

I struggled with this problem when I first became a Catholic, and learned it was a sin.
What helped me was realizing that heaven is just on the other side of a thin veil separating us. There is a cloud of witnesses around us, and they see everything we do. Darkness doesn’t hide us, nothing does.
So I stopped doing anything I didn’t want Our Lady and all the saints to witness. If you seriously believe they are watching. you can’t continue.

I could. I even put up icons of the saints, and a statue of the Virgin, all items had been blessed by a priest.

 

[Viki63]

Would you continue if your mother or grandmother or respectable next door neighbor was in the room?

 

[leonhardprintz]

Would you continue if your mother or grandmother or respectable next door neighbor was in the room?

What you’re proposing is strange. In a typical situation I’d just go to a private place and do it. Sexual activity of anykind isn’t something you do in public. Or do you have sex with your spouse in front of others, even though that is perfectly permissible and also (as I understand it) your guardian angel is actually encouraging you while you’re doing it?

I do get your point though, but we can’t see Heaven. I’ve tried to make the reality of Heaven and the “cloud of witnesses” as actual as possible: Icons, statues, etc…

I’m afraid it had little effect except increasing my shame.

I still have a cross in my room, currently moved (I had a small shrine with the Holy Family). Its been moved since I got a new closet for some suits. I’ll definitely build a new one if and when I start participating actively in the Church. Also the Virgin keeps watch on the window sill.

 

[Viki63]

. Sexual activity of anykind isn’t something you do in public

Correct. I was just pointing out that knowing the inhabitants of Heaven are aware of one’s activities might help keep them from getting out of line.
Your icons and statues are just that, reminders, not real people. I know we can’t see heaven, but if we really believed they were present, we’d watch our behavior.
I don’t think our guardian angels are encouraging us in the marital bed. They are probably minding their own business, whatever that might be. “Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled . . .” I also expect the saints and angels avert their eyes when we’re showering, etc.
Wishing you the best.

 

[phujosh]

Hello there brother in Christ,

I know exactly what you are going through. Let me see if I can be of help. First, let me share with you a little glimpse of some parts of my journey in faith. Before I came back to the Catholic Church about 10 years ago, I was living in sin and the gravity of the sexual sins I was committing, I bet were much worse than your daily sin of impurity.(Private message for details, if interested.) Even after I got confirmed, I still had to battle the temptation of the flesh. Like you, I was advised by different priests, even suggesting to disassociate myself with certain bad influential friends. I never listened. A few years ago, I prayed and asked God for Saints who can be my friends. Right away, I encountered many miracles and different Saints kept manifesting themselves to me. The very first Saint to manifest herself to me was St Rose of Lima when I just happened to stumble upon a children’s book about her life, read it and it made a huge impact and difference in growing in my faith. (I’m not sure if it’s possible to send me a private message but I can tell you a story of the many signs and miracles of her manifestations.) I ordered all of the children’s books written by the author about the lives of the different Saints and I just devoured reading them to satisfy my thirst to grow in holiness. This is where I encountered the life of Saint Thomas Aquinas book and joined the Angelic Warfare Confraternity and took a vow of chastity. I know you’ve joined this confraternity already and am I understanding that you’ve never experienced any supernatural grace since you joined? As for me, since I joined 4 years ago, I have only failed once, committing an impure sexual sin. That’s it. It is really miraculous. Not only did I gain the supernatural grace of chastity but also gained the wisdom and knowledge of the mysteries of Redemptive Suffering. Can you imagine that after all of these spiritual graces received, I still contemplate on leaving the Church, too, not because of the sin of impurity but because of the politics going on in the Church that I am not happy about.

End of Part 1. Please read part 2 for my suggestions.

 

[phujosh]

Part 2

I know many people have advised you and suggested many things you need to do to help you get over the sin of impurity. May you listen to my suggestions?

1. Spend lots of time in front of an exposed Blessed Sacrament especially when you start feeling the urge. Find a Church where it is exposed 24/7. Talk to HIM, pour everything out. When you are ready, surrender yourself and your sin of impurity by lying face down in front of a Blessed Sacrament.
2. When you pray, pray on your knees on a hard floor while fasting for at least an hour as you feel that pain and offer it to God for the salvation of souls especially those who need it. Do some mortification if your spiritual advisor will allow it.
3. Do some other penances and sacrifices by detaching yourself from worldly pleasures(refraining yourself from the sin of impurity) and offering them immediately in union with the suffering of Jesus Christ on the cross for the salvation of not only your own soul but other souls as well. The more you deny yourself of worldly pleasures while offering it in union with Jesus’ suffering on the cross, the more you are helping to save many souls into heaven… This act alone is more powerful than evangelization.
4. Also, offer your pains, sorrows, depression, anxieties all of your sufferings but mostly those sufferings that requires charitable acts by helping others more than yourself like fasting as in giving your meal to a homeless instead, spending time outside your house by feeding the homeless while fasting, volunteering and helping the elderly while fasting instead of staying at home that enables your temptation of impurity. This denial of pleasures of the world and flesh will give it a transcendental meaning because you are helping to save other people’s souls, think about the souls of those who you love that need salvation.

Will you try this? I will keep you in my prayers and will do some penances and sacrifices for your transformation.

God Bless!

 

[leonhardprintz]

Correct. I was just pointing out that knowing the inhabitants of Heaven are aware of one’s activities might help keep them from getting out of line.

I also want to apologise if I came off a bit gruff in the last post. I did try exactly what you said, both in prayer, and in practice to make myself feel as if I was sitting in a living room of saints. Unfortunately it just didn’t work, despite trying at it for years. (A common lament in my posts, but that’s what I’m processing).

I don’t think our guardian angels are encouraging us in the marital bed. They are probably minding their own business, whatever that might be.

On the contrary, I believe they do.

Not that they’re interested in the sexual act in and of itself (they’re spiritual beings afterall), but they’re interested in married people fulfilling their obligations, and being good to one another. The business that they’re minding, is in fact you. They’re probably praying for you and giving thanks to God for what is happening.

I also expect the saints and angels avert their eyes when we’re showering, etc.

Its hard to think about Heaven and the Cloud of Witnesses, without having in mind a divine Big Brother, no?

At any rate I believe the saints are pretty cool with it. They can’t be tempted in the slightest. And to the angels we’re as nude when we’re clothed as when we’re actually nude. The way they know about the world transcends senses (so they don’t have them). I don’t know how the saints in heaven experience us, since they don’t have senses either (no body), but I imagine God can show them visions of us on their request.

I don’t think any Catholic should ever have to feel shame for standing in a shower. Imagining all angels and saints looking away.

At any rate its only with sin that I feel shame. Which I think would be appropriate for a Catholic.

Sorry for the digression into the sidetrack. Thank you for your posts @Viki63

 

[Viki63]

Thanks for your reply. It’s actually kind of amusing to think of heaven in close juxtaposition to earth, if not frightening.
Someday we will know everything that went on. Now we see through a glass darkly.
I think phujosh has some good suggestions. I hope they work for you.

I am tempted to just say: take the bull by the horns and do what you know you should. That sounds too simplistic. But really, who is in charge of your life? Is it you, or your addictions?
I was delivered by God’s grace from an addiction, so can’t say how people usually fight them.

 

[leonhardprintz]

I believe something like what you’re saying is probably the only right answer. I realise I’m probably sounding discouraging in this thread. But its mostly a lack of faith and courage at this point.

In Denmark we have saying “Brændt barn skyr ilden”, which means ‘A child scorched fears fire’, or in other words if you’ve had a very bad experience with something, even if its the right thing, then you tend to avoid it in the future.

In a years time or two (or longer - I know we’re mortal, but I need to be ready) I’ll get in touch with my good priest friend. He’s a very orthodox Catholic, his father is a third order carmelite, and he’s both a gentle and firm spiritual advisor. And he has a good sense of humor. I’ve been an altar server for him when he celebrated mass in the extraordinary form, and enjoyed good conversations with him at a pub.

I trust him enough to have the discussions needed with him.

The problem at any rate is thinning out as I am growing older. The “fire” isn’t burning quite as hot anymore now that I’ve hit thirty. And it’ll probably be even better ten years from now.

So we shall see.

Again thank you everyone for your encouraging posts. I apologise for sounding discouraging. I hope you all have success in your strivings.

God bless.

 

[Annie]

I hope you will see this, because while treading your posts, I thought of something I read in a book called Peace and Light by Fr Quadrupani, which is online.

The more persistent the temptation, the clearer it is that you have not given consent to it. “It is a good sign,” says St. Francis de Sales, “when the tempter makes so much noise and commotion outside of the will, for it shows that he is not within.” An enemy does not besiege a fortress that is already in his power, and the more obstinate the attack, the more certain We may be that our resistance continues.

6. Your fears lead you to believe you are defeated at the very moment you are gaining the victory. This comes from the fact that you confound feeling with consent, and, mistaking a passive condition of the imagination for an act of the will, you consider that you have yielded to the temptation because you felt it keenly.

I am wondering if this might have been your problem–that you experienced so much temptation that you believed you had sinned so you might as well go all the way?

 

[beckymozart]

I consider myself a pretty well-adjusted Catholic and the barrage of advice you have been given would make my head spin if I tried to enact even a fraction of it. I’m only recently learning how important it is to be humble enough to sometimes say, “You know what, I just don’t know,” when someone asks my spiritual advice. Lent begins Wednesday. Since I just don’t know why you’ve been burdened like this without relief, I’ll keep you in my prayers this Lent. When I investigated my faith when I was younger and discovered that “purity” was a little more involved than I thought, I was gentle with myself and I got better. Padre Pio once said something to the effect that if you push back against certain temptations too violently you’ll make things worse. That’s all I can think of with you buried under this avalanche of advice. I grew up in a very happy family and life is a terrible struggle for me; I can only imagine how much harder it must be when you have deep wounds in your past (I mean anyone, not just you). I have zero doubt that things will get better for you in the years to come. Though it’s of dubious comfort, you have the affection and sympathy of us online strangers.