I don't understand Catholicism

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Well, basically I understand that Jesus was the avatar of the jealous creator God, Yahweh. Yahweh created Jesus to be a final sacrifice to replace the animal sacrifices demanded in the past because only blood could appease Yahweh. In honor of this, Christians symbolically drink the blood of Jesus and eat his flesh during communion, typically in front of an image of Jesus dying during his torturous execution by the Roman government. Jesus also taught some compassion, like that people who are not Jewish can also be accepted by Yahweh. However, this also means that those who reject the teachings of Jesus will be tortured in hell, I think eternally. (I think Revelations says something about them eventually being destroyed in hell.) Also, Yahweh will eventually judge the world and those who reject him will be crushed in a giant winepress of blood as described in Revelations.
I have to say, you have an awesome grasp of Christian mythology, albeit one that is very Buddhist!

In all honesty, I think someone coming from an Eastern religious background can understand incarnation better than most Westerners. 🙂 You just have to be careful to not conflate a few things that are not in harmony with Christian belief.

The first being, Jesus is not an avatar. Jesus is God, made man.

The Catholic understanding of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ has already been explained to you. But, I am assuming (or hoping) that you are able to grasp the mystical aspects of Catholic belief. It should be understood however, when we say mystical, or mysterious, we aren’t describing something that cannot be known. We are describing what God has revealed, therefore, it is known.

God has revealed His Flesh and Blood as a Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist. Therefore, it is something we know by reason. The clearest description of this is found in the Gospel of John. You can read it online here.
This is very different from the Buddhist idea that, even if you fall into hell (for things like hatred or jealousy) for eons, one’s karma will eventually be expiated and it will eventually be possible to be reborn as a human and ultimately attain enlightenment. Or that “sinning” or “missing the mark” is ultimately doing things that are unwise for our own well being and that of others (Buddhism teaches that we are all interconnected as manifestations of the eternal Buddha and through ichinen-sanzen) as opposed violating a divine fiat.
For Christians, our sins are expiated permanently and irrevocably by Jesus Christ. Of course, we can and do fall into sin again. We aren’t reborn and there is no such thing as karma. Rather, we rely on Jesus Christ who has paid the price for our sin. We find our Salvation in Him.

Philosophically speaking, I had a philosophy teacher in college who I think explained a difference between Buddhism and Christianity as well as I had ever heard:
  • Buddhism is an infinite cycle that is seeking to end
  • Christianity is a finite life seeking the infinite
I’ll only add, the Infinite has a name: Jesus Christ.
 
Hey Masaru…

For me, as a former agnostic, then protestant and then catholic, it was rather obvious: If Jesus really is the suffering Servant of Isiah 53 and the Son Of God and long awaited Jewish Messiah and Davidic King of both Jew and gentile, and Head and Savior of His Church - the new Jerusalem, as per scripture, Who fulfilled the Old Testament prophesies, Who said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"- then I can’t think of one reason NOT to belong to His church.

I agree with Randy Carson regarding a good starting point:

Who is Jesus Christ?
  1. Is he a lunatic because he believed that he was God?
  2. Is he a liar because he claimed to be God even though he knew he wasn’t?
  3. Is he lord of the universe just as he declared?
👍🙂
I was raised in a nominally Catholic household. There was a general belief in God, but aside from a few funerals, I’ve never been inside a Catholic church. 5 years ago, after a long search, I converted to Nichiren Buddhism, which is based on the Lotus Sutra and teached compassion towards all living beings and that even the vilest of beings have something good inside that can be fostered in order to save them. Generally speaking, Buddhism teaches how to cultivate this potential within everyone so that one can become the best person possible. I don’t see that in Catholicism, and now that I’ve converted I see a lot of differences in myself and some of my extended family—even with people in my hometown which has a lot of Catholics.

Basically I’m trying to get a perspective on how Catholics view their own faith, and if there is a reason to convert to Catholicism or even Christianity in general, what is it? I’m familiar with the Bible, though through Bible study in the Pentecostal church. I’m also honest enough to admit that I find myself isolated, and that this is why the issue of differences in mindset comes to the forefront of my mind a lot. If I’m looking for a wife from the same culture (who has any sense of morality,) she’s probably going to be Catholic or at least Christian. If I have to convert… what am I in for?
 
Thank all of you for your responses and for the resources provided.

I realize that most of my questions would probably be answered by getting involved in the Church locally. That being the case, I would ask, how would I do that? Is it acceptable to simply show up “in my Sunday best” for mass at the time scheduled? Will I need to talk to anyone at the church beforehand? I’m not familiar with any of the rituals of the Catholic church, so what should I expect?

Aside from that direct approach, here are my responses to some replies:
  1. It would help me better understand more about the motivations of a good number of people around me and 2) to see if I’ve missed something about Catholicism that would make conversion worthwhile. Regarding the first aspect, I just don’t get the way many of them choose to live their lives. Some people I see in healthy lifestyles and others in unhealthy lifestyles, but there is some element of that rhythym that it seems I’m missing and that marks me as an outsider.
To use an analogy, say two people in the 1700’s are using different maps to travel and do business. The maps cover the same area, but were charted by different cartographers. Each person thinks their map is superior. Now suppose that one of these people discover that the vast majority of people are using a different map or similar maps based on a common source. As a result, they use different routes and have different business connections. At some point, the person using the distinct map has to ask himself why the others have chosen the other type. Is it because the other map simply gained popularity first? Was it just the most accurate given the price? Are there really dragons where it says “here, there be dragons,” as opposed to the spots where dragons abide on the distinct map? Or is the popular map just better? This person once used the popular map and it appeared to be wrong about certain major landmarks, but it also has to be considered that the distinct map user may simply have been less skilled at using maps at the beginning of his journey.

This is like my situation.

Well, basically I understand that Jesus was the avatar of the jealous creator God, Yahweh. Yahweh created Jesus to be a final sacrifice to replace the animal sacrifices demanded in the past because only blood could appease Yahweh. In honor of this, Christians symbolically drink the blood of Jesus and eat his flesh during communion, typically in front of an image of Jesus dying during his torturous execution by the Roman government. Jesus also taught some compassion, like that people who are not Jewish can also be accepted by Yahweh. However, this also means that those who reject the teachings of Jesus will be tortured in hell, I think eternally. (I think Revelations says something about them eventually being destroyed in hell.) Also, Yahweh will eventually judge the world and those who reject him will be crushed in a giant winepress of blood as described in Revelations.

This is very different from the Buddhist idea that, even if you fall into hell (for things like hatred or jealousy) for eons, one’s karma will eventually be expiated and it will eventually be possible to be reborn as a human and ultimately attain enlightenment. Or that “sinning” or “missing the mark” is ultimately doing things that are unwise for our own well being and that of others (Buddhism teaches that we are all interconnected as manifestations of the eternal Buddha and through ichinen-sanzen) as opposed violating a divine fiat.

Still, I don’t think that helps me understand how Catholics view their faith, whether I’ve missed anything, or if I could ever be one or just tolerate being married to one and attending mass.

Good question to consider, and one that I’ve wrestled with. Still, the answer I’ve ultimately come to is that virtue is virtue due to causalty. What we do is imprinted upon us at the very core of our being. Being a killer makes one more apt to kill, which makes it inevitable that others will eventually do away with us for their own good. Stealing ingrains the habit, and makes it likely that we will lose the trust of others in proportion to the damage we do. The answer I’ve come to in my own life is based on an eternal, living causality as opposed to a causality set in motion be a creator. I can even see a bridge with this subject from Buddhism to Catholicism, but I’m still not sure what else lies beyond the thickets in terms of how Catholicism would shape my life and how it shapes others.

I was involved in the Soka Gakkai International for several years. I ultimately left because of a combination of doctrinal issues (like downplaying the historical Buddha in favor of Nichiren, the emphasis on the Daisaku Ikeda, etc.) and lack of support. I’ve been studying orthodox Nichiren Buddhism from the lineage or Nichiju since I left the organization.
When I read your statement about God being a jealous God I realized immediately that your perception of Christianity is incorrect. I am posting a website that answers many of the questions that you probably have…there are faith clips that answer questions such as
“Who Is Jesus”, “How Can Jesus Be Both God and Human”, “What is the Trinity” and other basic questions that will help you. There are video on certain topics…one of those is on “God, Tsunami and the Problem of Evil”. Please check it out…your perception of Christianity is so different that what it truly is…www.wordonfire.org
 
I understand why you felt that way about Catholicism. I believe that most Catholics do not have deep knowledge of their faith because of our desire to be subjected to the Church teachings of unity which is under one doctrine, faith to the teachings of the Church, obedience to the Magisterum, and the Tradition, with charity and good works should be enough for us to be saved. This is the reason why Catholics do not have the capability to defend the faith unless he thoroughly study the Church’s history and the Scriptures. Most Catholics do not study and read much of the Holy Bible because the authority to explain the Scriptures is those who truly understand the Church’s position.

For good Catholics, the Priests, and Bishops are good source of authority though may not be perfect in all aspects of the position of the Church. To understand Catholicism is simple if you have faith to those who were given the authority or have studied the Theology of the Church. It is not easy to be a scholar, but my own understanding points me to the right direction because there are no other ways to be saved but the Truth about God.

**Often converts learn more about the Catholic faith because we learn about it as adults with adult minds. Each RCIA class said to me…you’re going in the right directions, keep looking and listening.

stormy99**

Please ask some good apologetic in this forum, or read the history and the teachings of the early fathers of the Church. It will not take you longer to understand again what you have lost. I assure you, the more you study and learn, the more you will appreciate and accept the REAL TRUTH. Catholics are taught to be holy by way of what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to his disciples thus giving way for the apostles and disciples to pass on and live according to these teachings.
 
When you attend RICA class, they will help you to understand and also answer your questions. Each class tends to build on the previous class.

Have an open mind, free of preconceived thoughts, and you will do just fine.

Take one step at a time and it will become clear to you. Not difficult.

You are studying a faith that is world wide and the same everywhere and is a home everywhere… People from all walks of life, backgrounds, nationalities, and education,
poor, rich, middle class, men, women,children, simple and intelligent. This was made for
all by one who loved all and taught it for all. All you need to bring is your desire to learn and it will fall into place.
 
As for me, I came from Buddhist family, being a Chinese descent.
I love those moments when I went to vihara with my grand mother, incense, the statues, the chantings, festivals, stories and legends.

I am a convert to Catholic faith. All good things in Buddhism, I found exists also in the Christian faith. So in this regard, I didn’t leave anything.
Mysticism, compassion, self renunciation, even meditation (with different theological grounding and goal, but from the outset, people that practice it shows the same serenity and wisdom).
And I found it, it is so simple. Logically persuasive, historically grounded.

But I guess, the definitive turn around is “personal encounter with Christ.”
And that makes the whole damn thing different… simply, I’m in love, a eureka experience. So simple, so ordinary, so common, yet so true.
Well this happened years after I became Catholic though.
 
Btw, Masaru, coming from Buddhism, I think reading Christian mystics, what they wrote, how they live, is one thing that you need to explore.
St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross for instance. With a disclaimer, that what they wrote and how they wrote, reflecting their culture and time. But it was a fascinating reading.

A Japanese Zen monk spoke to me once, Christianity is dogmatic while Buddhism is more mystical, experiential. He was a learned person, speak English very fluently, he studied law or philosophy abroad if my memory not fail me.
I believe he did not notice that Christianity has a long history of mysticism, which perhaps will be of his interest.
 
I was raised in a nominally Catholic household. There was a general belief in God, but aside from a few funerals, I’ve never been inside a Catholic church. 5 years ago, after a long search, I converted to Nichiren Buddhism,
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. 😃 I am very familiar with Nichiren Buddhism. Wonderful religion. 🙂
which is based on the Lotus Sutra and teached compassion towards all living beings and that even the vilest of beings have something good inside that can be fostered in order to save them.
We teach that, too. However, we recognize that not everyone will choose to embrace that good within them and foster it. Those people, unfortunately, will choose Hell over God. 😦
Generally speaking, Buddhism teaches how to cultivate this potential within everyone so that one can become the best person possible. I don’t see that in Catholicism, and now that I’ve converted I see a lot of differences in myself and some of my extended family—even with people in my hometown which has a lot of Catholics.
I don’t see how Catholicism doesn’t teach that. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” “And to him that striketh thee on the one cheek, offer also the other. And him that taketh away from thee thy cloak, forbid not to take thy coat also.” “Give to every one that asketh thee, and of him that taketh away thy goods, ask them not again.” Sounds like a call to cultivate the love and compassion within yourself to me. 🤷
I understand your frustration with “holier-than-thou” Catholics, but, honestly, I went on a very similar journey to yours a few years ago and ended up coming back to the Church. I dabbled in Buddhism and Hinduism and ended up actually joining the Gaudiya Vaishnavas. I can assure you that even in Eastern religions, there will always be those who don’t follow what their Prophets spoke to them and will continue to hold their noses high in the air and consider themselves better than even the best. There tends to be some sort of mysterious view of Eastern religions in the West, that those who practice them are somehow better people than Western religious people, but I can assure you that much of this “mystique” attached to their followers is generally just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. I’m not saying that Catholics are less prone to bad behavior than followers of Eastern religion, merely that moral corruption of practitioners is just as present in Nichiren Buddhism as in Catholicism.
People are people no matter where you turn to, and many people will be hypocrites. Unfortunate, but definitely true. 😦
 
During my conversion from virtual atheism, or a “religion” I called “Masonism” which went do whatever the heck ya’ want. If you convert you’re in for the best, and most serene and peaceful time of your life. I understand your Buddhist views. But do you believe in God? The proof of Jesus Christ is easily proven with science the only question(for scientists) is if he really is the son of god (obviously he is).

Really, the Catholic Church and it’s parishes are awesome. But like everything you have bad people, in good things. The people in my Parish are very nice, and have been nothing but supported. The Catholic faith is amazing, and you should really give it a* REAL* shot.
 
Catholicism is about love, commpassion and forgiveness. Remember the great comandment. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. This is the first and greatest comandment. And the second is just it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two comandments.”

jesus g
 
Once again, thanks to everyone for their responses.
My question would be, why does it bother you that you don’t understand Catholicism?

What is it that you hope to understand?

I know for myself, there are hundreds of things that I don’t understand - nuclear physics, for example - but since they don’t connect very much with my everyday life, it doesn’t bother me that I don’t understand them.

How does Catholicism enter into your everyday life - or is there some way in which you would like it to enter into your everyday life? 🙂
Why do gangsters proudly display their crucifixes? Shouldn’t they be ashamed of the fact that their lifestyles contradict their beliefs? Things like this really puzzle me. My background is as a minority from a small town, so questions like this come to my mind often.
 
Why do gangsters proudly display their crucifixes? Shouldn’t they be ashamed of the fact that their lifestyles contradict their beliefs? Things like this really puzzle me. My background is as a minority from a small town, so questions like this come to my mind often.
I don’t really know what the answer is, to that. I don’t know very many gangsters, and I don’t really have very much insight into how they think. 🤷

In any case, I wouldn’t look to gangsters as any kind of model of how ordinary Catholics generally behave.
 
I don’t really know what the answer is, to that. I don’t know very many gangsters, and I don’t really have very much insight into how they think. 🤷

In any case, I wouldn’t look to gangsters as any kind of model of how ordinary Catholics generally behave.
Well, obviously they’re not good examples. 🙂 But still… They say Yakuza are very polite in certain respects. I remember my grandmother telling me about a time that her car broke down in a neighborhood and some tattooed thugs came out and fixed her car. I think that even when a person goes against their faith, or even if they just neglect it, that it still comes to the forefront in their daily lives. People who say that they are without a faith still make decisions based on what they know to be sin—just in case. And even criminals are really just bargaining for how much suffering they are willing to take later on.

I guess this is a poor introduction into my thoughts on life and death and how people live their lives in relation to their beliefs about those things. That issue is ultimately what I’ve been wondering about. If you hadn’t asked, I wouldn’t have realized it.
 
Well, obviously they’re not good examples. 🙂 But still… They say Yakuza are very polite in certain respects. I remember my grandmother telling me about a time that her car broke down in a neighborhood and some tattooed thugs came out and fixed her car.
I have nephews who wear a lot of tattoos and studs, etc. - they do it to look “cool” and to prevent people from bothering them, but as far as I know, they don’t commit any kind of crimes (in fact, they are well-educated, married with kids, and work in white collar industry), and they would be the first to run to the rescue if an older lady were in trouble - although no doubt their appearance would scare her half to death.
I think that even when a person goes against their faith, or even if they just neglect it, that it still comes to the forefront in their daily lives. People who say that they are without a faith still make decisions based on what they know to be sin—just in case. And even criminals are really just bargaining for how much suffering they are willing to take later on.
I suppose that’s possible.
I guess this is a poor introduction into my thoughts on life and death and how people live their lives in relation to their beliefs about those things. That issue is ultimately what I’ve been wondering about. If you hadn’t asked, I wouldn’t have realized it.
I’m not sure how much of what people believe is remembered from their childhood religion classes or Sunday School, how much is imbibed from the media (which, despite being “secular”, still proceeds according to Judeo-Christian basic assumptions about how things work) and how much they actually reflect on and consciously strive for in their lives.
 
As a non-Catholic (so no bias; yay!), and as someone who once considered Buddhism, I feel like I can weigh in here.

First of all, if you don’t understand Catholicism, then the fault therein lies in your own personal understanding and not the religion. I, as an outsider, feel like I “get” it, even if some doctrines are somewhat troublesome [for me]. Remember: while the Church is now a shadow of its former glory, some of the planet’s greatest thinkers believed in the religion.

Secondly, everything good you find in Buddhism, you can find in Catholicism and indeed most other religions. All religions worth their salt hold the same fundamental concepts. The difference is found in that at least the “Abrahamic” faiths promise something to their respective believers. The concepts of samsara and the Four Noble Truths are really depressing! And the Buddha’s promise of Nirvana, while basically refusing to define it, is a major cop-out. Anyone can feel enlightened if you tell them they will be. It’s kind of like a spiritual placebo effect.

I don’t mean to belittle your faith; if I offend, please forgive me. It’s just that I’ve sorta been in your shoes before and I don’t want you to make the same mistake, and eventually you’ll realise that Buddhism is just a nice way to live… A way through life, rather than a way of life.

Peace. 🙂
 
As a non-Catholic (so no bias; yay!), and as someone who once considered Buddhism, I feel like I can weigh in here.

First of all, if you don’t understand Catholicism, then the fault therein lies in your own personal understanding and not the religion. I, as an outsider, feel like I “get” it, even if some doctrines are somewhat troublesome [for me]. Remember: while the Church is now a shadow of its former glory, some of the planet’s greatest thinkers believed in the religion.

Secondly, everything good you find in Buddhism, you can find in Catholicism and indeed most other religions. All religions worth their salt hold the same fundamental concepts. The difference is found in that at least the “Abrahamic” faiths promise something to their respective believers. The concepts of samsara and the Four Noble Truths are really depressing! And the Buddha’s promise of Nirvana, while basically refusing to define it, is a major cop-out. Anyone can feel enlightened if you tell them they will be. It’s kind of like a spiritual placebo effect.

I don’t mean to belittle your faith; if I offend, please forgive me. It’s just that I’ve sorta been in your shoes before and I don’t want you to make the same mistake, and eventually you’ll realise that Buddhism is just a nice way to live… A way through life, rather than a way of life.

Peace. 🙂
The Nichiren/Tendai lineage answers those depressing questions, but I get you.
 
I went to a Mass one Sunday. It was really beautiful. Stange thing was that everyone was so shame faced. It was really confusing to me. I could be arrogant about that and fault the faith, but I know that asking my questions has given me some understanding of what is going on people’s hearts and minds. Like Jmcrae said, our society is Judeo Christian in it’s roots and in it’s majority, and there are a LOT of Catholics, not just where I live but in the world in general. Generally speaking, it’s important to understand, at least, what so many people are running to and running from—and how—just to live in this world.

I guess as I learn more about this faith—not just through books (the classes at the local church are out for the summer,) but through the people, it helps me to see what they are striving for, what it means to them, and would it does, and could mean to me. These hanged heads are people in a state of contrition—or at least, trying to be. In a way, it’s an attitude that takes responsibility for the evil in the human heart, with Jesus at the cross as a direct yet majestic reminder of what we are all capable of. The cruelty of the human heart could kill God himself, could kill the Father of the world. And with that acknowledged and repented of, the people are redeemed. The evil nature is washed away and forgiven. Lives are changed.

Maybe not all forms of Buddhism, but Nichiren Buddhism works from the opposite direction. It posits perfection in Shakyamuni as the Eternal Buddha, and then says that we are like him. That what he has done, we can do, and become, as well. That our sin was ultimately just our ignorance and confusion, like children playing in a burning house.

So I’m not trying to be disrespectful. I’m just asking questions. I think, Amir the Masihi, you may ultimately be right. That’s why I ask.
 
Namasté. 😉

There’s nothing wrong with being confused and perhaps a bit indecisive. Indeed, it shows that you don’t choose your beliefs at face value. My “travels” in religion have taken me to and from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism and Judaism. Though, I always ended up coming back to the concept of The One God. >1 or <1 just don’t make sense to me. It may just be my Middle Eastern origin; it’s not easy being from the region where the idea of The One God was essentially born. 😊 Even in my language, you cannot say “goodbye” without saying mentioning God, really.

Buddhism, for me, raises the biggest “Why?” questions. Why, if there is no true higher power, is there this fundamental suffering in life? Even if there was, why, if there’s no higher power, are we by default dragged into samsara? I admit I know little about Nichiren Buddhism; the only schools I’m familiar with is Mahayana and Theravada Buddhism. Nevertheless, I still massively respect the religion. Men like the Dalai Lama should be looked up to.
 
I was raised in a nominally Catholic household. There was a general belief in God, but aside from a few funerals, I’ve never been inside a Catholic church. 5 years ago, after a long search, I converted to Nichiren Buddhism, which is based on the Lotus Sutra and teached compassion towards all living beings and that even the vilest of beings have something good inside that can be fostered in order to save them. Generally speaking, Buddhism teaches how to cultivate this potential within everyone so that one can become the best person possible. I don’t see that in Catholicism, and now that I’ve converted I see a lot of differences in myself and some of my extended family—even with people in my hometown which has a lot of Catholics.

Basically I’m trying to get a perspective on how Catholics view their own faith, and if there is a reason to convert to Catholicism or even Christianity in general, what is it? I’m familiar with the Bible, though through Bible study in the Pentecostal church. I’m also honest enough to admit that I find myself isolated, and that this is why the issue of differences in mindset comes to the forefront of my mind a lot. If I’m looking for a wife from the same culture (who has any sense of morality,) she’s probably going to be Catholic or at least Christian. If I have to convert… what am I in for?
Hi Masaru: My sense is that of you change your religion for the sake of getting a wife or a husband, then you are in for a very interesting ride. If these differences that you note in yourself are good ones, then why **would **you go back? If they are not good ones, why don’t you go back? I’m confused as to what the issue is. ???

Your friend
Sufjon
 
Becoming Catholic was easy for me. I grew in attending a United Methodist church and their beliefs are very simular to Catholism. There is nothing wrong with the Methodist faith at all. It is a good one. Choosing to be Catholic was a personal choice. I felt spiritually drawn because of my beliefs in The Blessed Mother and Holy Communion.
 
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