I don't understand hell. please help?

[catholic1seeks]

I have two “objections” to hell, but I’m including them in this one thread. I hope the discussion can deal with both because they’re both crucial to me.

(1.) “How could an all loving God send people to hell?” The usual Christian response is that the sinner, not God, sends himself/herself to hell by his/her own free will. This is reasonable.

** However, how could God permit the eternal suffering of one of his creatures, even if it is by his own choice? Wouldn’t it be better for nothing to exist at all than to have some–even one person–end up in hell for eternity? [Note: Even if you want to believe that no human goes to hell, you still have to admit that the demons are forever in their “damned” state.]

So is it better to exist, whether in heaven or hell, or to not exist at all? God is omnipotent, of course. He’s omniscient; he knows who would choose heaven and who would choose hell.

(2.) My second “objection” or struggle is the nature of hell. It is reasonable for hell to exist if there is also free will. [Note: my first objection above deals with hell in a broader sense-- in light of God and his nature.]

Is there real fire in hell? This may be a basic “yes or no” question. But I’ve searched on the forums, and I’ve looked at a variety of sources. Some answer yes, some no. The article on hell in the Catholic Encyclopedia says that there are literal fires, and it even says “According to the greater number of theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold to this teaching as absolutely true and correct.” St. Faustina says “There are special tortures of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another.”

If there is real, physical fire, it seems as though God is externally inflicting punishment on the sinner. I thought hell is an intrinsic consequence of sin. Literal fire doesn’t seem necessary.

Please help me. I’m trying to be humble when I ask these things.

 

[Trishie]

God doesn’t send us to hell, we choose hell if we don’t live in practical charity to others.
You may find it helpful to read Matthew 25 verses 31-46, and you will see what Jesus who is judge of souls, says about the judgement of souls

…and what is plain is that people have either chosen for God by living with kindness and practical charity to others, or have rejected God by refusing to live in love and kindness.

By the time we come before God we have ourselves already made that choice by our lives, so it is we who condemn ourselves to existence without the God of light and love.

To exist without the light and love and goodness of God is hell, dreadful hell, because we were made for light and love and goodness shared with God and in communion with other human beings.

That third of angels who became devils, became this because they rejected the love and light of God, without God’s life and love, they and we are ugly and miserable and have the burning absence of all good. This was the choice we made with our lives, if we chose to live without love for others on earth.

I hope that helps

 

[Calbreese]

Yes, hell is chosen by free will. It is simply Godless, loveless eternity. Could there be hell fire? Kind of a mute point isn’t it?

www.marysfinalmessage.com gives priest endorsed messages from the Blessed Mother. Free!

 

[bpbasilphx]

St. Jerome said that the fire of hell is remorse.

Others have opined that this fire is the full and unmitigated love of God Himself, with nothing to distract us from it, as we have in this present life.

For the saved, He will be the fire that warms and gives life.

For those not quite ready for their full reward, He will be the fire that purifies.

For those who have not acquired the love of God in this life, He will be like burning coals of fire that pursues them like a flood–and they cannot escape Him.

 

[kimmielittle]

I have two “objections” to hell, but I’m including them in this one thread. I hope the discussion can deal with both because they’re both crucial to me.

(1.) “How could an all loving God send people to hell?” The usual Christian response is that the sinner, not God, sends himself/herself to hell by his/her own free will. This is reasonable.

** However, how could God permit the eternal suffering of one of his creatures, even if it is by his own choice? Wouldn’t it be better for nothing to exist at all than to have some–even one person–end up in hell for eternity? [Note: Even if you want to believe that no human goes to hell, you still have to admit that the demons are forever in their “damned” state.]

So is it better to exist, whether in heaven or hell, or to not exist at all? God is omnipotent, of course. He’s omniscient; he knows who would choose heaven and who would choose hell.

(2.) My second “objection” or struggle is the nature of hell. It is reasonable for hell to exist if there is also free will. [Note: my first objection above deals with hell in a broader sense-- in light of God and his nature.]

Is there real fire in hell? This may be a basic “yes or no” question. But I’ve searched on the forums, and I’ve looked at a variety of sources. Some answer yes, some no. The article on hell in the Catholic Encyclopedia says that there are literal fires, and it even says “According to the greater number of theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold to this teaching as absolutely true and correct.” St. Faustina says “There are special tortures of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another.”

If there is real, physical fire, it seems as though God is externally inflicting punishment on the sinner. I thought hell is an intrinsic consequence of sin. Literal fire doesn’t seem necessary.

Please help me. I’m trying to be humble when I ask these things.

I can’t help on Theology of Hell…I’ll leave that to the Grwnups.

I just know I don’t want to ever be separated from God…not for a nano-second.

 

[Catholic1954]

The Fatima Children were granted a vision of hell, and they described it as a lake of fire with tormented, transparent souls being tossed helplessly up and down in great waves of fire. They were quite terrified by the sight.

 

[steve_b]

I have two “objections” to hell, but I’m including them in this one thread. I hope the discussion can deal with both because they’re both crucial to me.

(1.) “How could an all loving God send people to hell?” The usual Christian response is that the sinner, not God, sends himself/herself to hell by his/her own free will. This is reasonable.

Bottomline, God judges us, We don’t judge ourselves.
c1:

** However, how could God permit the eternal suffering of one of his creatures, even if it is by his own choice? Wouldn’t it be better for nothing to exist at all than to have some–even one person–end up in hell for eternity? [Note: Even if you want to believe that no human goes to hell, you still have to admit that the demons are forever in their “damned” state.]

God gives us plenty of chances to respond to His graces. Hell and its punishment is defined in the CCC as eternal seperation from God.

**1057 **Hell’s principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
c1:

So is it better to exist, whether in heaven or hell, or to not exist at all? God is omnipotent, of course. He’s omniscient; he knows who would choose heaven and who would choose hell.

By virtue of our immortal soul being created by God at our conception we are then immortal. Once created, we won’t cease to exist even in hell
c1:

(2.) My second “objection” or struggle is the nature of hell. It is reasonable for hell to exist if there is also free will. [Note: my first objection above deals with hell in a broader sense-- in light of God and his nature.]

Is there real fire in hell? This may be a basic “yes or no” question. But I’ve searched on the forums, and I’ve looked at a variety of sources. Some answer yes, some no. The article on hell in the Catholic Encyclopedia says that there are literal fires, and it even says “According to the greater number of theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold to this teaching as absolutely true and correct.” St. Faustina says “There are special tortures of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another.”

If there is real, physical fire, it seems as though God is externally inflicting punishment on the sinner. I thought hell is an intrinsic consequence of sin. Literal fire doesn’t seem necessary.

Please help me. I’m trying to be humble when I ask these things.

The CCC has 2 pages of entries describing hell
ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=hell&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

 

[Benadam]

I believe it must be better to exist in hell than to not exist because it is the only part of the damned that it has of God. So the damned will to exist and God respects the will of creatures He has created to be self determined. The way we dread death I think is the way the damned would dread to not exist. That is if it were something imagineable.

As for fire. As I understand it. Physical reality isn’t more real than spiritual reality. Fire, in essence is that which consumes and permanently changes what is consumed. The permanent state that it changes a thing to depends on the substance of the thing burned. Wood and straw are reduced to a form that lacks all the qualities that made it what it was but is still called wood or straw. Reduced to the most unreal form of it’self. Some things are refined by fire. Fire reveals what was noble in them. Fire exists because what is essenetial for fire to be is actuated. Namely, fire is the act of consuming things to a permanent state. On earth, when it acts on wood or ore or etc…perisheable things fuel perisheable fire. The fire of hell acts on spiritual realities so is fueled by eternal things. eternal things are more real and the true essence and principle of physical counterparts, so is consequently a physical eternal fuel for fire to act on…

 

[trogiah]

My understanding of hell comes from Jesus’s words regarding condemnation.

“The measure with which you measure will be used to measure you.”

“If you forgive others, your heavenly father will forgive you. If you do not forgive others your heavenly father will not you.”

Anger, guilt, bitter resentment last longer than fire which in a relatively short time destroys the nerves that cause pain.

 

[Cristian_B]

Interesting. I believe in Hell, but I do not believe that you are immortal. If you are mortal die. You don’t spend an eternity in Hell, but you die (in fire, of course). The main reason God forbid us from eating from the tree of life, was because of love. Since we became sinners, if we would have eaten then we couldn’t have died so sin would live forever, since we were sinners. But because we are not immortal, we can kill our sinner nature, and then be born again as a righteous. Then we will eat from the tree of life and righteousness will live forever. But since the sinful man did not eat from the tree of life, but the new righteous man did, then the sinful man cannot live forever but the new born righteous one will. The sinner does not have eternal life, so he will die in the fire, he will cease to exist. Therefore you could live forever in Hell only if you, being a sinful man, would have eaten from the tree of life. And if you would have eaten, then you would be suffering forever. “You will not surely die” is the oldest of Satan’s lies, and still many believe it. Many believe they will live an eternity on Hell or an eternity in Heaven. You die in Hell, and live an eternity in Heaven. But again, don’t fool yourself. It is not going to be an easy death for the ones in Hell. It will be just and without mercy.

thetruthabouthell.net/
thetruthabouthell.org/

These links, in my opinion are interesting and it’s what I said in detail.

I actually forgot what the original question was. I hope those links will answer all your questions.

God bless you!:heaven:

 

[catholic1seeks]

By virtue of our immortal soul being created by God at our conception we are then immortal. Once created, we won’t cease to exist even in hell

Right. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I’m not talking about annihilation as some (JWs?) believe. I’m asking if it is better for God to create knowing some of his creatures will end up in hell or if it’s better for him not to have created anything at all. Put another way, is it better for someone to go to hell or to not exist at all?

If it is not better to exist in hell----and if it IS better to not exist at all then why would God even create us?

That’s what I’m confused about in my first objection.

Remember what Jesus said about Judas: “it would have been better if he hadn’t never been born” [paraphrase].

So is it better to exist in hell or to not exist?

Thanks for replies.

 

[Cristian_B]

Right. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I’m not talking about annihilation as some (JWs?) believe. I’m asking if it is better for God to create knowing some of his creatures will end up in hell or if it’s better for him not to have created anything at all. Put another way, is it better for someone to go to hell or to not exist at all?

If it is not better to exist in hell----and if it IS better to not exist at all then why would God even create us?

That’s what I’m confused about in my first objection.

Remember what Jesus said about Judas: “it would have been better if he hadn’t never been born” [paraphrase].

So is it better to exist in hell or to not exist?

Thanks for replies.

Well, as I stated above I do not believe you live eternally in Hell, but I will think for a moment the way you do.

Supposing you are right, then why would God take away eternal life from people who deserve it?

 

[catholic1seeks]

We

Supposing you are right, then why would God take away eternal life from people who deserve it?

Can you elaborate? I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say “supposing you are right”?

Sorry

And thanks.

 

[Cristian_B]

Can you elaborate? I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say “supposing you are right”?

Sorry

And thanks.

Supposing you are right when you say that we spend and eternity in Hell (or Lake of Fire).

 

[steve_b]

Right. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I’m not talking about annihilation as some (JWs?) believe. I’m asking if it is better for God to create knowing some of his creatures will end up in hell or if it’s better for him not to have created anything at all. Put another way, is it better for someone to go to hell or to not exist at all?

Jesus answers that question when referring to Judas which you note below.

If one is reduced to non existance, then the soul is not immortal. However the soul IS immortal and once created by God, it will exist for all eternity.
c1:

If it is not better to exist in hell----and if it IS better to not exist at all then why would God even create us?

The problem is with the question.

We can’t pretend hell exists if it doesn’t, and the soul is immortal if it isn’t. The only reason we know hell exists, and the soul is immortal and both last forever, is because the one who created everything that is, told us it is true. Without that assurance from Jesus of this truth, it’s all nonsense. Pure fabrication. It boils down to, either one believes Jesus or they don’t.
c1:

That’s what I’m confused about in my first objection.

Remember what Jesus said about Judas: “it would have been better if he hadn’t never been born” [paraphrase].

So is it better to exist in hell or to not exist?

Hands down it would be better to have never existed than to spend eternity in hell…

The following is from "this Rock "

Note as the article points out,1 Peter, shows people who have been in this state since Noah, and they are aware. They haven’t been snoozing for all those thousands of years.

"Christ’s descent to Hades. In 1 Peter 3:19, the apostle tells his audience how Jesus “preached to the spirits in prison.” If the dead were aware of nothing, then his preaching would have been futile. In the OT, the prophet Isaiah speaks of the condition of the dead, "Sheol underneath has become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in . . . all of them speak up and say. . . . Those seeing you will gaze even at you, saying . . . " (Is. 14:9-11). These verses indicate clearly that the dead are conscious, and the NT tells the same story. To be absent from the body is not to be unconscious, but rather it enables one to be home with the Lord, according to Paul (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23). The body is just a tent, or tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt. 10:28). In fact, the souls live past the death of the bodies, since John “saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . . " (Rev. 6:9-11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8), and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13).”

**Q:“ **
**Do Catholics believe that people “sleep” until the Second Coming and the Resurrection, or is there some sort of consciousness prior to the Second Coming? I don’t understand why, if we have been in heaven and in spiritual form, we come back into our earthly bodies. **
”
**A: **
Death is sometimes figuratively spoken of as sleep because that is what the dead look like they are doing to our eyes—but in heaven their souls are alive and awake and worshiping God, as Revelation shows (cf. Rv 4-5). This belief is inseparable from Catholic tradition; the “soul sleep” theory is incompatible with the practices of asking the prayers of the saints and praying for the dead in purgatory.

The reason we will come back and be reunited with our bodies is because God designed us to be both physical and spiritual. Unlike animals, we have an immortal soul by nature. Unlike angels, we have bodies by nature. We’re the intersection of the physical and spiritual realms. As a result, as long as our bodies and souls are in a state of separation we are in a condition that is unnatural for us and incomplete.

Since God means for our final destiny to involve a state of wholeness and completion that corresponds to our nature as humans, he will reunite our bodies and souls forever so that our nature as humans is taken into account in our eternal destiny."

IOW, After the final judgement, souls who were in heaven will have resurrected bodies in heaven and souls who were in hell will have resurrected bodies in hell.

4 pages regarding resurrection of the dead from the CCC
ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=resurrection+of+the+dead&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

 

[Benadam]

Remember what Jesus said about Judas: “it would have been better if he hadn’t never been born” [paraphrase].

So is it better to exist in hell or to not exist?

Thanks for replies.

Job 3
11 Why did I not die in the womb, why did I not perish when I came out of the belly? 12 Why received upon the knees? why suckled at the breasts? 13 For now I should have been asleep and still, and should have rest in my sleep. ;

I think Jesus was speaking in the context of what Job lamented.

 

[Cristian_B]

Death is sometimes figuratively spoken of as sleep because that is what the dead look like they are doing to our eyes—but in heaven their souls are alive and awake and worshiping God, as Revelation shows (cf. Rv 4-5). This belief is inseparable from Catholic tradition; the “soul sleep” theory is incompatible with the practices of asking the prayers of the saints and praying for the dead in purgatory.

I am a little confused. How can the dead [or “asleep”, doesn’t matter how you call them] worship and praise the Lord since the bible says they don’t?

No one remembers you when he is dead.
Who praises you from the grave? (Psalms 6:5)

*It is not the dead who praise the LORD,
those who go down to silence;
it is we who extol the LORD,
both now and forevermore.
Praise the LORD. * (Psalms 115:17)

[if you want, tell me, and I will quote more passages]

Of course, understanding stuff like this helps you understand Hell, so you could say it is on topic.

If you judge it is not on topic, then send me your answer in a PM [private message].

 

[steve_b]

I am a little confused. How can the dead [or “asleep”, doesn’t matter how you call them] worship and praise the Lord since the bible says they don’t?

No one remembers you when he is dead.
Who praises you from the grave? (Psalms 6:5)

It is not the dead who praise the LORD,
those who go down to silence;
it is we who extol the LORD,
both now and forevermore.
*Praise the LORD. *(Psalms 115:17)

[if you want, tell me, and I will quote more passages]

Of course, understanding stuff like this helps you understand Hell, so you could say it is on topic.

If you judge it is not on topic, then send me your answer in a PM [private message].

Why did you ignore the NT readings provided that support the position?

 

[Cristian_B]

Why did you ignore the NT readings provided that support the position?

I am sorry. Could you please quote them? [or you can just tell me the passages]

 

[EnterCanaan]

Hell is another name for death. Hell and all of its metaphorical language, which is parabolic language, you ken? is a word that simply means death. The way to find this truth, to obtain harmony and discern a fable from the reality, is to compare scripture to scripture.

Is 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.
Is 28:13 But the word of the Lord was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little there a little,” That they might go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and caught.
1 Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

These verses are given by God to us as a teaching tool to discern spiritual truth. God has written this down, so we can obey it. If you don’t understand that scripture must be compared to scripture, then you will never ever ever ever ever find harmony. This is a teaching tool given by God, so we have it on good authority that it must be a valid teaching tool, so you should recognize the truth in these words and apply them to your own study.

Next, the word is spoken in parables. All of it. The word is Scripture, the word is also Christ *Jon 1:14: and the word became flesh and dwelt among us. It is the same word, and it is spiritual. Everything in the bible is in the form of a parable, an earthly story, with a spiritual meaning. The whole bible is spiritual so you must find the spiritual truth, and you do that by comparing scripture to scripture.

Hell Derived from the Saxon helan, to cover; hence the covered or the invisible place. In Scripture there are three words so rendered:-

Sheol Hebrew, Old Testament. Appearing 65 times. It is rendered “grave” thirty-one times. The dead “go down” to it.

Hades Greek, New Testament. Appearing 9 times. The Greek word Hades of the New Testament has the same scope of signification as sheol of the Old Testament. It is a prison, and it is downward

Gehenna Greek. Gehenna, in most of its occurrences in the Greek New Testament, designates the place of the lost. (originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., “the valley of the sons of Hinnom”), a deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech. This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning. It thus in process of time became the image of the place of everlasting destruction. In this sense it is used by our Lord in Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5. In these passages, and also in James 3:6, the word is uniformly rendered “hell,” the Revised Version placing “Gehenna” in the margin.

Hinnom Hebrew, Appearing 11 times. A deep, narrow ravine separating Mount Zion from the so-called “Hill of Evil Counsel.” It took its name from “some ancient hero, the son of
Hinnom.” It is first mentioned in Josh. 15:8. It had been the place where the idolatrous Jews burned their children alive to Mispar and Baal. A particular part of the valley was called Topheth, or the “fire-stove,” where the children were burned. After the Exile, in order to show their abhorrence of the locality, the Jews made this valley the receptacle of the offal of the city, for the destruction of which a fire was, as is supposed, kept constantly burning there.

What is hell:

Hell is the names used for the following words: Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Hinnom, Death, Grave, Pit, Prison, “to go down” Eternal fire.