I don't understand hell. please help?

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Lets take a closer look at what Eternal fire actually is.

Jude 1:7 (King James Version)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

God has given us an EXAMPLE of what his vengeance is, of what His wrath is, of the NATURE OF ETERNAL FIRE.

Now Sodom and Gomorrha were under the judgment of God, as all unsaved people are. Sodam and Gomorrha was under the wrath of God, and the wages for sin is death, the perfect payment for Gods perfect law, is Gods perfect judgment, and so we have for our EXAMPLE, what the nature of Gods wrath is, of what His punishment is for sin.

And of course, the wages for sin is death.

And so Gods wrath is kindled on Sodom and Gomorrha and Gods wrath is like an ETERNAL FIRE.

Now this is the example. How long did Sodom and Gomorrha burn, Did it burn ETERNALLY? Did it burn for hundreds of years, for thousands, is it still burning?

No, Sodom and Gomorrha burned for maybe a few days at the most, then the fire waned as there was nothing left to burn.

Thus, as our example, Gods ETERNAL FIRE is a CONSUMING FIRE. that totally erases you. The wages of sin is death, and death is forever. In death you are consumed and you are no more.

So now many people will refuse to believe this, however it is straight from the bible, I showed you where to look and how to look, and all of it is from the bible, I did not translate it any strange way, I was open and honest about this, and I trust in what I read in the bible

so I know that hell is not eternal suffering, hell is another name for death, or grave, or pit. and when an usaved man dies, then his soal is already dead and the wages of sin is death. Death is final, no suffering.

the final example is an indication of Gods mercy. God has set up conditions for punishment, and so is not to exceed the punishment, as exceeding punishment is not merciful, which is the nature of God.

Deuteronomy 25:3
**Forty stripes **he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

2 Corinthians 11:24
Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

The boundaries are set for punishment, whether temporal or eternal.

FORTY STRIPES is the maximum. However most people recognized the law of God, and so only gave at most THIRTY NINE STRIPES, less one, so as they would not exceed the punishment.

These examples should give a clear indication that hell is not what we have always been taught hell is, Hell is simply death, and when you are dead, you are gone forever, you have no conscience thought, you feel no pain, you have no indication of passing time, its like being under general anesthesa, you go under, and its black and nothing, and when you wake up its been hours or days, and you have no idea of the passing time or any memorie of feelings or pain. Though this is a earthly metaphore, it still fits, you die, and you are embraced into nothingness. that is the punishment for sin dear readers.
 
The Rich man and Lazarus, Luke 16

The parable describes two individuals. The rich man has all of the joys and comforts this present world can bring, but he is not saved. The poor man, Lazarus, has none of the good things of this world, but he is a saved man. Finally, both men die. The rich man is buried, and Lazarus is carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:22). To be in the bosom of Abraham is a picture of being in the highest blessing in the presence of God. To be buried is to be placed in the grave. The parable then continues with a conversation between the dead rich man and Abraham (GOD), who is in heaven. Remember, “grave” and “death” is the same thing as hell. Therefore, it is not incorrect to say that the rich man was in hell (Luke 16:23)

But you must understand, that lifting up his eyes and seeing Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom, and speaking to Abraham, are all hypothetical. That is, God has set up a completely imaginary tableau, or a three dimensional picture, or in other words a parable, in order to convey spiritual truth. These truths include important doctrines such as the following.
#1 The rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus with a drop of water to cool his tongue (Luke 16:24). There is NO MERCY or GRACE to those who have died unsaved.
#2 There is a great gulf between heaven and hell. Heaven is eternal life. Hell is death forevermore. Never, never will those who are dead ever come to life again.
#3 The rich man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus to his five brothers because he thought that such a miracle will cause them to become believers. The truth is, they have Moses and the prophets, the Old Testament. If they will not believe the Bible, then they will not believe even if they witness some great miracle.
#4 The rich man is tormented in this flame. The Greek word that is translated “tormented” is used only in verse 24, in verse 25 (“thou art tormented”), in Luke 2:48, and in Acts 20:38. The “flame” emphasizes the rich man is being punished by God, who is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29). The word “torment,” which is defined by its usage in Acts 20:38 and Luke 2:48, indicates the nature and character of the torment he is experiencing. Now we will look carefully at this word and its usage in these two verses.
Acts 20:38: Sorrowing most of all for the words which he spake, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him unto the ship.
Luke 2:48: And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? Behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

In both of these verses, the word that is translated as “tormented” in Luke 16 is translated as “sorrowing.” This sorrowing has nothing to do with physical pain. It is the sorrow of not seeing a loved one again. The rich man was in torment because he was sorrowing that he could never again have the joys and comforts he had experienced in his life on earth. While Lazarus was safe and secure with the greatest blessings forevermore.

In other words, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus teaches us nothing at all about eternal pain in a place called hell. It is teaching us about the penalty of losing all the blessings of this life, and gaining none of the blessings of eternal life.

I hope this helps you on your path to discernment. Keep in mind that the indication of a true child of God is that he will search the scripture to verify this information. Notice I don’t say believe me, I say, here is my source, here is the teaching, go and study the truth for youself. Because the only one who can pursuade you is the holy spirit, the only thing to apply knowledge to your heart is the holy spirit.

So instead of rebuking this on the basis of its contrary to your doctrine, you should instead be like the faithful Boreans:

Acts 17:11 These were more fair minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The nature of a child of God is:
1 Ptr 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby.

As new born babies, meaning, don’t let your pre-concieved doctrine be the authority, let the bible be your authority, desire it as a new born baby, willing and ready, and allow the doctrine of the bible to overwrite your pre-convieved doctrine you hold so dear in your heart, otherwise you will never come to truth.

1Tim 4:6-7 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives fables, and exercise yourself rather to godlines

What is the good doctrine, the good doctrine is the word of God, for it is from the mouth of God and is perfect. What is a fable, a fable is doctrine devised by man in contradiction to the bible doctrine. This is teaching that if you learn a truth from the bible, then that is good doctrine, if that doctrine you learn from the bible contradicts the doctrine your church teaches, or you hold in your heart as dear, then you can be certian that the church doctrine is a fable, as the ultimate authority is Christ, who is the word, which is the scripture. You must allow yourself to be corrected by the bible, not base your bible study off of the church. Be like the faithful Boreans who searched the scripture daily. That is the nature of a true child of God.

2Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
EnterCanaan, I’m in no way denying that hell exists or that the Bible speaks of hell. I believe it to exist because we know Christ established a Church to teach the truth.
 
Cristian_B said:
I am sorry. Could you please quote them? [or you can just tell me the passages]
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Here’s what I posted.

"Christ’s descent to Hades. In 1 Peter 3:19, the apostle tells his audience how Jesus “preached to the spirits in prison.” If the dead were aware of nothing, then his preaching would have been futile. In the OT, the prophet Isaiah speaks of the condition of the dead, "Sheol underneath has become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in . . . all of them speak up and say. . . . Those seeing you will gaze even at you, saying . . . " (Is. 14:9-11). These verses indicate clearly that the dead are conscious, and the NT tells the same story. To be absent from the body is not to be unconscious, but rather it enables one to be home with the Lord, according to Paul (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23). The body is just a tent, or tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt. 10:28). In fact, the souls live past the death of the bodies, since John “saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . . " (Rev. 6:9-11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8), and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13).”

**Q:“ **
**Do Catholics believe that people “sleep” until the Second Coming and the Resurrection, or is there some sort of consciousness prior to the Second Coming? I don’t understand why, if we have been in heaven and in spiritual form, we come back into our earthly bodies. **
”
**A: **
Death is sometimes figuratively spoken of as sleep because that is what the dead look like they are doing to our eyes—but in heaven their souls are alive and awake and worshiping God, as Revelation shows (cf. Rv 4-5). This belief is inseparable from Catholic tradition; the “soul sleep” theory is incompatible with the practices of asking the prayers of the saints and praying for the dead in purgatory.

The reason we will come back and be reunited with our bodies is because God designed us to be both physical and spiritual. Unlike animals, we have an immortal soul by nature. Unlike angels, we have bodies by nature. We’re the intersection of the physical and spiritual realms. As a result, as long as our bodies and souls are in a state of separation we are in a condition that is unnatural for us and incomplete.

Since God means for our final destiny to involve a state of wholeness and completion that corresponds to our nature as humans, he will reunite our bodies and souls forever so that our nature as humans is taken into account in our eternal destiny."

IOW, After the final judgement, souls who were in heaven will have resurrected bodies in heaven and souls who were in hell will have resurrected bodies in hell.

4 pages regarding resurrection of the dead from the CCC
ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com…it=Search&s=SS

The Catechism has 16 entries for hell
ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=hell&xsubmit=Search&s=SS
 
Those who are enmoral close there eyes to God. Its not as if God will throw them into hell because of their sin. It is more accurate to say that the impure person is ipso facto incapable of the beatific vision.
 
steve_b said:
Don’t even entertain such a thought.
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We must entertain the thought that, under any circumstance, to be a creation of God is a greater good than to have never been created at all. Why is it better to be a creature eternally damned than to not ever have been created? To be is better than to not be no matter what condition or state is not being. I would venture a quess that untill we know the state of eternity we can’t appreciate what existence means.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Then why did God create us, if he knew that by creating us with free will would send some to hell?

That’s my question :confused:
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Does God create ANYONE for hell? No. How do we know that?
  • God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [1 Tim 2:4]
Did God stack the deck against us? No. I’d say He stacked the deck in our favor. How?
  • "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. [Jn 3:16]
Think about that!!! Can you even wrap your mind around such love? Any doubt about God’s commitment to us? Is there any doubt about God’s love, and desire for us? I hope not.
What if the one you died for won’t love you back? You do everything you can for them and still they won’t love you back. For a robot there is no harm no foul. They can’t love. They aren’t built to the image and likeness of you. Whole different expectation for a robot.

But for someone with freewill, that’s a different story.

Freewill doesn’t send us to hell. It’s what we do with it.
 
Benadam said:
We must entertain the thought that, under any circumstance, to be a creation of God is a greater good than to have never been created at all.
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That’s not the point I was adressing
B:
Why is it better to be a creature eternally damned than to not ever have been created? To be is better than to not be no matter what condition or state is not being.*** I would venture a quess***that untill we know the state of eternity we can’t appreciate what existence means.
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That’s what I was adressing. Given what revelation tells us about the afterlife, we don’t have to guess. Why in the world would you think it is better to be eternally damned than to not be created?
 
(2.) My second “objection” or struggle is the nature of hell. It is reasonable for hell to exist if there is also free will. [Note: my first objection above deals with hell in a broader sense-- in light of God and his nature.]

Is there real fire in hell? This may be a basic “yes or no” question. But I’ve searched on the forums, and I’ve looked at a variety of sources. Some answer yes, some no. The article on hell in the Catholic Encyclopedia says that there are literal fires, and it even says “According to the greater number of theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold to this teaching as absolutely true and correct.” St. Faustina says “There are special tortures of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another.”

If there is real, physical fire, it seems as though God is externally inflicting punishment on the sinner. I thought hell is an intrinsic consequence of sin. Literal fire doesn’t seem necessary.

I dont think anyone knows if there are real fires in hell. There are many examples of saints and people God has chosen who have seen hell as a fire. perhaps it is the only thing we can compare it to with our limited human mind. The point I think is that hell is a place of unspeakable suffering and we should do everything we can do to avoid it.
 
catholic1seeks said:
I have two “objections” to hell, but I’m including them in this one thread. I hope the discussion can deal with both because they’re both crucial to me.

(1.) “How could an all loving God send people to hell?” The usual Christian response is that the sinner, not God, sends himself/herself to hell by his/her own free will. This is reasonable.

** However, how could God permit the eternal suffering of one of his creatures, even if it is by his own choice? Wouldn’t it be better for nothing to exist at all than to have some–even one person–end up in hell for eternity? [Note: Even if you want to believe that no human goes to hell, you still have to admit that the demons are forever in their “damned” state.]

So is it better to exist, whether in heaven or hell, or to not exist at all? God is omnipotent, of course. He’s omniscient; he knows who would choose heaven and who would choose hell.

I too have wondered how could God send anyone to hell, considering how horrible it is by all accounts. It doesnt make sense to me that He would do that. , But just because i cant fathom it, just coz i think its unfair doesnt mean hell doesnt exist. At the end of the day its one of those things i accept by faith. (Like the Trinity and transubstantiation).
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