I don't understand the acceptance of contraception

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Someone brought up a good point on contraception in another thread:
Every Christian Church or ecclesial community taught that the use of artificial contraception was intrinsically evil and was a serious sin until the Lambeth Conference of 1930. That year, the Anglicans/Episcopalians voted to approve ABC in certain limited cases. It wasn’t long until the ABC dam had burst and the Anglicans/Episcopalians decided it could be used any time. All non-Catholic entities followed suit. Subsequently, the Anglicans/Episcopalians have brought us women priests, homosexual clergy, and abortion on demand. And many non-Catholic entities (but not all) have followed suit. Voting to approve sin is an interesting way to decide moral questions
Today the only Church that has continued to teach that each use of ABC (except as a medical treatment in some cases) is a serious sin is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The teaching is as old as the Church herself. Even the Orthodox have caved in to the social pressure and now permit artificial contraceptives, which is a reversal of centuries of teaching that ABC should never be used.
Is the teaching on ABC too strict? Only the One True Church has the courage to teach this unpopular truth!
***Flip-flop, flip-flop, ABC used to be a sin but now it’s not. Flip-flop. ***
Can we change sin to un-sin by majority vote? Protestants think so. And the Orthodox hierarchy simply changed their mind. Did God change His? Uh uh.
I agreed with him. I think it brings up some interesting theological questions. If a denomination decides that something (not just birth control, but anything) is no longer a sin, does that mean God changed His mind? That implies limited omniscience. Does it mean God his the truth from His loyal followers for 2,000 years? That implies limited goodness (because that would make God into a liar). Does it mean people get to vote on morality? That implies limited omnipotence and contradicts the doctrine of our sinful nature.

I’m interested in learning what the Protestant perspective on that one is.
 
I think it not imply that God is limited, but that the church leaders were wrong before, and now they realize its not a sin. It was never a sin to God, but the people misunderstood and thought it was…or something like that.

Or maybe ABC is wrong in some cases, but the church councils just banned it in all cases. Later, that teaching was expounded upon, and some cases of ABC were allowed. This is not that different from Catholic teaching, which cannot change, but can deepen with our understanding of it…so that it can apply to different situations/people that we didn’t think of before.
 
Someone brought up a good point on contraception in another thread:

I agreed with him. I think it brings up some interesting theological questions. If a denomination decides that something (not just birth control, but anything) is no longer a sin, does that mean God changed His mind? That implies limited omniscience. Does it mean God his the truth from His loyal followers for 2,000 years? That implies limited goodness (because that would make God into a liar). Does it mean people get to vote on morality? That implies limited omnipotence and contradicts the doctrine of our sinful nature.

I’m interested in learning what the Protestant perspective on that one is.
I don’t think it means that God has changed His mind. It may have nothing to do with God at all. Rather, it might mean that the leaders of the (C)hurch have developed a better understanding of the teaching. It has nothing to do the Omnipotence of God, but the limited understanding of human beings. It has nothing to do with God’s goodness, but again the limited capacity for humans to understand and their ability to get things confused or incorrectly. After all, they are only human themselves and have their own beliefs and biases to deal with — all formed by their whole environment. But that’s just one possible answer to your questions 😉
 
I think it not imply that God is limited, but that the church leaders were wrong before, and now they realize its not a sin. It was never a sin to God, but the people misunderstood and thought it was…or something like that.

Or maybe ABC is wrong in some cases, but the church councils just banned it in all cases. Later, that teaching was expounded upon, and some cases of ABC were allowed. This is not that different from Catholic teaching, which cannot change, but can deepen with our understanding of it…so that it can apply to different situations/people that we didn’t think of before.
This may sound like a reasonable explanation, however it doesn’t seem to work. It seems to me that ABC has been condemned in the past with strong language of condemnation by Protestants. Whereas the development of Catholic doctrine hasn’t seen similar sudden changes. Actually, Catholic doctrines have been around for centuries with much agreement in centuries past with a then dogmatic declaration occuring after centuries of agreement by saints and other members of the Catholic faithful.
 
It boils down to why would a group or an individual separate from the Original Church founded by Jesus Christ.

Only two possible answers

  1. *]Pride
    *]Justification of Sin.

    The first split was Pride… I won’t take sides with first East / West. Both were prideful and would not or could not see the truth… Maybe Satan was blinding both parties?? He is the only one that would have benefited from the split.

    Then came the Protestant reformation and all the splits over the past 500 plus years. Examine each one and you will find Pride and/or justification of sin at the core… In the past 40 years most splits have been over the justification of sin.

    Except for those who have split from the very sinful denominations and try to reform to a more truthful denomination… Of which, a lot of these are being grafted into the Roman Catholic Church. Example: Many of the Anglican Communities who are tired of lies and want the truth.
 
I’ve always thought of the acceptance of contraception to simply be an example of fallible humans caving in to selfishness and the selfish desires of culture and society. They simply didn’t have the backbone to continue to preach the truth because they did not wish to be “disliked” or “unpopular”. It’s one of the myriad reasons why I love the Catholic Church: the Church does not cave in to the popular will, but adheres to the truth through trials and strife, as it ought to.

On the subject of morality being subject to vote, absolutely not. The truth is the Truth, no matter what we humans may say about it or how we may contradict it. Denying the Truth does not make it false - it merely makes us errant. God’s law is His law and Truth, and it is up to us to understand and accept it, rather than fall prey to our selfish desires and urges.

Incidentally, I just recently read a wonderful article from the National Catholic Register which spoke of contraception and how it is the root problem behind the degradation of the institution of marriage and the acceptance of abortion, gay “marriage”, ect. I thought, given the topic here, that it was kind of relevant: ncregister.com/blog/redefining-marriage-2/

I would recommend reading the rest of this series of articles as well; they’re all very good.
 
but guys!!! Contraception wouldn’t’ve been invented if God didn’t want us to use it!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I need to see what my protestant friends think of the 1930 turning point in their doctrines…
 
but guys!!! Contraception wouldn’t’ve been invented if God didn’t want us to use it!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I need to see what my protestant friends think of the 1930 turning point in their doctrines…
This is an honest question, so pardon me if it sounds silly, but I’ve never heard this argument, to my knowledge. However, I gathered from the tone of your post that you have encountered it, so…

Do some of them really resort to that argument? Because the logic behind that is so fallacious it’s not even funny. Using that logic, one can justify literally ANY invention from the beginning of time, from the iron maiden to the nuclear bomb to the infamous “Pear of Anguish.” It makes no sense whatsoever, not when one claims to believe in a loving and kind God who wishes nothing but good upon His creatures.

I probably took that post way too seriously, but I like to be sure in matters like this. I’ve found that I never cease to be surprised at the illogic of others.
 
This is an honest question, so pardon me if it sounds silly, but I’ve never heard this argument, to my knowledge. However, I gathered from the tone of your post that you have encountered it, so…

Do some of them really resort to that argument? Because the logic behind that is so fallacious it’s not even funny. Using that logic, one can justify literally ANY invention from the beginning of time, from the iron maiden to the nuclear bomb to the infamous “Pear of Anguish.” It makes no sense whatsoever, not when one claims to believe in a loving and kind God who wishes nothing but good upon His creatures.

I probably took that post way too seriously, but I like to be sure in matters like this. I’ve found that I never cease to be surprised at the illogic of others.
Sometimes there isn’t enough time in the day to show how fallacious some ideas are.

Always good to be sure ;). I haven’t encountered this in real life, but I’m pretty sure I heard this thrown out on a contraception thread on CAF from March or April '11.

…this thread needs some protestant (name removed by moderator)ut!

Sincerely & God Bless,
Phil
 
Someone brought up a good point on contraception in another thread:

I agreed with him. I think it brings up some interesting theological questions. If a denomination decides that something (not just birth control, but anything) is no longer a sin, does that mean God changed His mind? That implies limited omniscience. Does it mean God his the truth from His loyal followers for 2,000 years? That implies limited goodness (because that would make God into a liar). Does it mean people get to vote on morality? That implies limited omnipotence and contradicts the doctrine of our sinful nature.

I’m interested in learning what the Protestant perspective on that one is.
I’m not sure where that quote comes from, but there is one bit that needs clarifying. Speaking for the Church of England, yes, we have women priests. But the CofE does not allow practicing homosexual clergy any more than the RCC does. And to say that Episcoplals/Anglicans brought in “abortion on demand” is arrant nonsense. It is worrying how such misaprehensions abound, and very bad for ecumenism.
 
It boils down to why would a group or an individual separate from the Original Church founded by Jesus Christ.

Only two possible answers

  1. *]Pride
    *]Justification of Sin.

    The first split was Pride… I won’t take sides with first East / West. Both were prideful and would not or could not see the truth… Maybe Satan was blinding both parties?? He is the only one that would have benefited from the split.

    Then came the Protestant reformation and all the splits over the past 500 plus years. Examine each one and you will find Pride and/or justification of sin at the core… In the past 40 years most splits have been over the justification of sin.

    Except for those who have split from the very sinful denominations and try to reform to a more truthful denomination… Of which, a lot of these are being grafted into the Roman Catholic Church. Example: Many of the Anglican Communities who are tired of lies and want the truth.

  1. Example: I am tired of lies and want the truth. That’s why I’m an Anglican. And will remain proudly so. Thank God.
 
Incidentally, I just recently read a wonderful article from the National Catholic Register which spoke of contraception and how it is the root problem behind the degradation of the institution of marriage and the acceptance of abortion, gay “marriage”, ect. I thought, given the topic here, that it was kind of relevant: ncregister.com/blog/redefining-marriage-2/

I would recommend reading the rest of this series of articles as well; they’re all very good.
Great article. Thanks for sharing. I’m just about done with the culture at large. Now that we are closing in on five kids, we are definitely counter-cultural. I am glad there are people like the author of this article still willing to take on the world and try to explain the truth.
 
It really doesn’t boil down to why a group or an individual would schism, about pride of a justification of sin… what are you talking about? The question of contraception is one that is still being tossed around and debated amongst Catholic theologians, even. The teachings on contraception are not infallible, nor do they go back 2,000 years. The first systematic study of contraception and abortion dates back to 500 years ago. There were and are also two understandings of when life is created: first, immediate animation (life at conception), and second, delayed animation (life at first movement). The Catholic Church does not provide a specific, determinate stance on when the soul is present in a human embryo; read the entirety of Evangelium Vitae. What the Church actually teaches is that the possibility of life ought to be defended in order to prevent the possible killing of that life,* in the event* that the soul is there at conception, since we don’t know. Another interpretation of Catholic teaching on this is that because there is a potential for a soul to be there later, it should also be defended. This question of when the soul is present leads to the question of whether it is right to baptize a miscarriage. Anyways, I know that this does not deal with contraception, but contraception and abortion are connected, so I thought I’d talk about it a little bit because it is really, really interesting philosophy.👍 It’s also an example of something that everyone assumes the Catholic church has a definite teaching on that is actually still being discussed and developed. Not everything is black and white; reason is still at work, guided by the Holy Spirit, struggling to decipher what is loving and what is not according to the model of True Love that is God.

On to contraception, I recently read Christopher West’s book “Good News About Sex and Marriage.” In it, I discovered that he offers a very honest (although some Catholics who follow a more ‘black and white’ moral code disagree with his interpretation) exploration of Catholic teachings regarding sex, marriage, family, and contraception. However, I also discovered how incredibly simple it is to disagree with the Catholic church’s teachings on these issues, and raise legitimate and defendable opposing arguments. Even West agrees sex within marriage is actually not ‘about’ having children; rather, it is about the marriage bond established in the sacrament. Being open to children is a part of that, and is agreed upon in the vows and preparation beforehand. However, why does sex have to be open to children, when clearly there are means to prevent it while still being loving and free in the act? Is using contraception truly withholding any part of the self, one’s fertility, from the partner, especially if both wish for it to be that way? Is it selfish and thus sinful to not have children? ‘As the church has always taught,’ abstinence is the method proven to not be sinful yet still have the effect of not having children. However, with today’s contraceptive technology, it is possible to have sexual intercourse and not have children. My apologies- there is still a 1% chance of failure for the patch, or something around that, and if the male uses contraception as well the chances for failure are reduced exponentially.

What it “boils down to” is whether or not the sexual act within marriage is still completely free and loving when contraception is being used. Those who support contraception say yes it is, while those who oppose contraception say no it is not. Now, are contraceptives inherently evil? If one believes that the sexual act is still completely free and loving even when using them, obviously they still are. At the same time, we recently saw Pope Benedict pointing out how contraceptives could be used as a first step towards the assumption of responsibility. If they can be used as tools from which to learn an inherent good, then how can they be inherently evil? Interesting question, no?

I don’t want to launch an assault on Catholic teachings on contraception; I’m just pointing out some opposing points of view and where the issue truly “boils down.” 👍
 
Someone brought up a good point on contraception in another thread:

I agreed with him. I think it brings up some interesting theological questions. If a denomination decides that something (not just birth control, but anything) is no longer a sin, does that mean God changed His mind? That implies limited omniscience. Does it mean God his the truth from His loyal followers for 2,000 years? That implies limited goodness (because that would make God into a liar). Does it mean people get to vote on morality? That implies limited omnipotence and contradicts the doctrine of our sinful nature.

I’m interested in learning what the Protestant perspective on that one is.
I’m not sure that contraception is a theological or even a moral issue. It’s all very well to say “God changes his mind”, but I’m not sure that there are (m)any scriptural references to contraception.

There are two other points I’d like to make. The population of the UK is growing rapidly. It could reach 70 million in the next thirty years. We are a small, overcrowded island. If all families had ten children it would scarcely be sustainable. I know a man who grew up in a family of eleven in a four bedroom council flat in Glasgow in the fifties. Do we really wish that upon people? Or perhaps the council should have provided his family with a very large house.

The second point is a more obvious one. You want a “Protestant perspective”. But how about a RC one? The great majority of western RCs seem to ignore their Church’s rulings on contraception. Italy, Austria, Spain and Portugal have very low birthrates. Contraception is not an issue to most Protestants. It could be that it is not one to many RCs either.

A RC priest I know says that the big issue facing the world at the moment is fertility. World population growth trends are interesting in that context.
 
Someone brought up a good point on contraception in another thread:

I agreed with him. I think it brings up some interesting theological questions. If a denomination decides that something (not just birth control, but anything) is no longer a sin, does that mean God changed His mind? That implies limited omniscience. Does it mean God his the truth from His loyal followers for 2,000 years? That implies limited goodness (because that would make God into a liar). Does it mean people get to vote on morality? That implies limited omnipotence and contradicts the doctrine of our sinful nature.

I’m interested in learning what the Protestant perspective on that one is.
In yesterday’s (UK) Independent, there’s a letter from a Brian McGavin. I don’t know what religion he is (his surname is Irish, but his address is in England).

He writes: “For many decades there has been a wilful blindness…in recognising that relentless human-population growth is one of the pre-eminent problems we face. In 1950 worls population was barely over 2 billion; in October this year it will hit 7 billion.”

He refers to “a housing crisis, lowered standards of living, more air pollution, grid-locked traffic, biodiversity loss, and a dozen other calamities caused by increasing population pressures”.

Could be he thinks it’s a moral issue.
 
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