I don't understand the idea of female Deacons

[catholic03]

Recently, I have been reading up on the Holy Father, the Amazon Synod, and the views of various bishops on the issue of female Deacons. My understanding is as follows: the Church in Her wisdom could allow female ‘deaconesses’ who are not sacramentally ordained, but could never allow ordained female deacons. Is that last part right? Because I am quite concerned as some in the Church seem to think that women could be sacramentally ordained as Deacons like men. Surely this would open the path to female ‘priests’.

Could someone please clarify Church teaching, and explain whether or not some bishops espouse sacramental ordination of women as Deacons.

May God thank you kindly.

 

[ziapueblo]

The early Church recognized deaconesses but from what I understand their role was not that of deacons during the liturgy. I believe that their role in the early Church was to minister to female laity. I could be wrong.

ZP

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Surely this would open the path to female ‘priests’.

You mean priestess, right?

But anyway, I don’t think so. Primary because a deacon…well, a deacon isn’t a priest. I was under the impression that a woman could be ordained as a deacon, or deaconess depending on your preference of gender language. But a woman could not be ordained as a priest.

 

[1ke]

I was under the impression that a woman could be ordained as a deacon, or deaconess depending on your preference of gender language.

No, ordination to holy orders is not possible for a woman. Just like an abbess or a prioress, lay women in certain roles.

A deaconess would not be an ordained person.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

No, ordination to holy orders is not possible for a woman.

Okay yes. I had to go back and look at where I had gotten those impressions from.

Deacon and deaconess would not have the same ordination. A deacon would receive Holy Orders. A deaconess would have been ordained to her position, but that ordination would not have been Holy Orders. The language of “ordination” was essentially changed to “ministry” by a 1972 motu proprio Ministeria Quaedam. So it would take another moto proprio to change it back and restore certain functions of an ordained female. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Catholic361]

Ok I have a question. What about Our Holy Mother Mary? Wasn’t she a decon of some kind just to the women in the early days of the church, why not have them again?

 

[Dovekin]

Could someone please clarify Church teaching, and explain whether or not some bishops espouse sacramental ordination of women as Deacons.

No.

Pope Francis recently sent up a commission of experts on women as deacons. They could not come to a consensus opinion. The synod recommended further study, so he commission will probably meet, with some new members.

With a variety of opinions expressed at the highest levels, you are likely to hear a variety of opinions expressed here. I doubt that that will answer your questions.

 

[otjm]

Deaconesses, should the Church acknowledge such a position, would not be ordained, period. Ordination is the conferral of Holy Orders on someone - and the Church holds that only men can be ordained.

Should the position of deaconess be recognized, there might be some ceremony of recognition of their position; but not a “laying on of hands” not a conferral of Holy Orders.

 

[CTBcin]

deacon…well, a deacon isn’t a priest.

But they both fall under Holy Orders, which is male-only by nature.

 

[otjm]

well, a deacon isn’t a priest.

A deacon is not a priest, but a priest is a deacon. A priest is not a bishop, but a bishop is a priest and a deacon. Those orders are not “cancelled out” when one is ordained to the next sacramental order.

Thus, at a Mass where the deacon is present, he reads the Gospel as that is a specific charism of the deaconate. He may preach (a homily) but the normal one to preach the homily is the priest. So, when one goes to Mass at which a bishop is presiding, there may be priests and deacons at the Mass; one of the deacons will read the Gospel…

 

[7_Sorrows]

I personally am not in favor of female deacons.

 

[Dovekin]

the crown is required previous to receiving Orders

how many agree that tonsure, cutting of hair with a bald area surrounded by a crown of growing hair, is a requirement for holy orders?

since it is not possible in the female sex to signify eminence of degree, for a woman is in the state of subjection, it follows that she cannot receive the sacrament of Order.

Anyone committed to this idea? That men can “signify eminence of degree” but women cannot? Or that women are “in the state of subjection”?

These are the arguments on which Aquinas bases his opposition to ordaining women. They are not going to convince many people.

 

[Jen7]

Should the position of deaconess be recognized, there might be some ceremony of recognition of their position; but not a “laying on of hands” not a conferral of Holy Orders.

If the ceremony is different & what is achieved is different (Holy Orders for men vs not for women) why not give the women a different title? Why call them “deaconess” at all? It seems confusing.

 

[otjm]

I suspect, since there is evidence that women served in a specific role in the early Church and appear to have been referred to as deaconesses, the same may apply today should the Church consider the role valuable in today’s world.

Which is so far above my paycheck that my opinion has no standing, whatsoever. I just need to keep my pew warm.

 

[Wesrock]

Ok I have a question. What about Our Holy Mother Mary? Wasn’t she a decon of some kind just to the women in the early days of the church, why not have them again?

Deaconesses had access to the womens’ areas where men were not permitted to go. They also assisted with sensitive, ministry things with women.

I think we put this one ancient ministry on a pedestal. There are numerous lay ministries today which women participate in and even dominate at many parishes.

 

[midori]

From the Didascalia, c. AD 230, describing the function of deaconesses, who took over certain roles of pastoral care in a gender-segregated society, who helped and served in a non-ordained role–

Of the appointment of Deacons and Deaconesses, and of how it is fitting for them to conduct themselves in their service, without indolence of the mind nor license.

Therefore, O Bishop, appoint for thyself workers of righteousness and helpers, to help with thee to life, electing those who please thee from all the people (S. and appoint Deacons). The man who is elected is for many oversights that are required, but a woman for the service of the women ; for there are houses where thou canst not send a Deacon to the women on account of the heathen. Send a Deaconess for many things. The office of a woman Deaconess is required, first, when women go down to the water, it is necessary that they be anointed by a Deaconess, and it is not fitting that the anointing oil should be given to a woman to touch ; but rather the Deaconess. For it is necessary for the Priest who baptizeth, to anoint her who is baptized ; but when there is a woman, and especially a Deaconess, it is not fitting for the women that they be seen by the men, but that by the laying on of the hand the head alone be f. 55 b anointed, as of old time the Priests and Kings of Israel were anointed.

Ap. Con. Thou also, in like manner, by laying on [thy] hand, anoint the head of in. xvi.

those who receive baptism, whether of men or of women, and afterwards, whether thou thyself baptize, or command the Deacon or the Elder to baptize, let it be a Deaconess, as we said before, who anoints the women. Let a man repeat over them the names of the invocation of the Godhead in the water. And when she that is baptized arises from the water let the Deaconess receive her, and teach her and educate her, in order that the unbreakable seal of baptism be with purity and holiness. Therefore we affirm that the service of a woman, a Deaconess, is necessary and obligatory, because even our Lord and Saviour was served by the hand of women deaconesses, who were Mary the Magdalene, and Mary (Cod. S. daughter) of James, the mother of Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children, with other women. This service of Deaconesses is necessary also to thee for many things, for in the houses of the heathen, where there are believing women, a Deaconess is required, that she may go in and visit those who are sick, and serve them with whatever they need, and anoint (S. wash) those who are healed from sicknesses.