I don't understand the problem with the title "Mary, Mother of God"

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I know that one attack against the Catholic Church in regards to the Blessed Mother is the title “Mother of God”. Well, I assume the majority of us can agree on these points:
  • Mary is Jesus’ mother
  • Jesus is God incarnate
So, what is the deal with referring to Mary as the Mother of God?
 
I know that one attack against the Catholic Church in regards to the Blessed Mother is the title “Mother of God”. Well, I assume the majority of us can agree on these points:
  • Mary is Jesus’ mother
  • Jesus is God incarnate
So, what is the deal with referring to Mary as the Mother of God?
I think it is a knee jerk reaction rather then a logical reaction in most cases. Essentially calling her Mother of God seems like insinuating that she is on the same level as God, if not higher since she is the ‘mother’ and to us the mother is one who comes before, the one who is above the children… etc.

At least, that’s how I would have seen it when I was a Protestant and thus the term would have made me uncomfortable.

But when you think it out it’s completely logical and just makes sense.

I’d like to hear from our separated brothers and sisters to see why the term bothers them, perhaps so I can understand their viewpoint better.
 
I completely get that, but it confuses a lot of people.

I once used that title for her and someone thought that I believed that before God there was Mary…because if God has a mother then the mother must have come before him. The Bible tells us that God has always existed which means he has no mother and no father. By saying she is the mother of God it can lead to confusion and make people think that 1. She has also always existed along, or 2. She has existed before God.

I usually just use the term Mary mother of Jesus or Jesus’ earthly mother.
 
I completely get that, but it confuses a lot of people.

I once used that title for her and someone thought that I believed that before God there was Mary…because if God has a mother then the mother must have come before him. The Bible tells us that God has always existed which means he has no mother and no father. By saying she is the mother of God it can lead to confusion and make people think that 1. She has also always existed along, or 2. She has existed before God.

I usually just use the term Mary mother of Jesus or Jesus’ earthly mother.
But we call her Mother of God because we want to stress Jesus’ divinity, not because we want to stress her importance.

If Jesus was TRULY God, then Mary was the Mother of God… so we, Catholics, insist on calling her Mother of God so as to stress Jesus’ true divinity and humanity. 🤷
 
theotokos.co.za/theotokos.html

Council of Ephesus vs Nestorianism in 431:
The Patriarch of Constantinople, Nestorius, had taught that Jesus was two persons with two natures - a divine person with a divine nature, and a separate human person with a human nature. At the Council he said, “I can never allow that a child of three months old was God.”
Opposing him were bishop St Memnon of Ephesus and Pope St Cyril the Great of Alexandria, supported by Pope St Celestine of Rome, who died before the council began.
The Nestorian teaching was formally condemned at this Council, and the official teaching of the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and most Protestants today is that Jesus is one person, with two natures - a human nature and a divine nature.
To express that truth, the Council of Ephesus stated that Mary was truly the Mother of God.
Nestorianism taught that Mary gave birth to only a man, and not the Logos, God the Son, and that God the Son merely dwelt within Jesus the man. It taught that the human and divine natures of Christ were each found in two separate persons, and the person born to Mary had only a human nature, and was not the Logos. They called Mary the Christotokos - Mother of Christ, and they rejected the idea that she was Theotokos, Mother of God.
The Council (of Ephesus) taught that the person to whom Mary gave birth was truly God, not merely a man who was later indwelled by God the Son.
 
A lot of protestants don’t quite get the 'fully human and fully God" thing. While they claim to be Trinitarian Christians, they really don’t quite understand the Nicene Creed’s implications.

“Mary worship” is a frequent criticism protestants raise against Catholics. In solo scriptora denominations it’s even worse.

Lutherans and Anglicans sort of get it.

If Christ is born of Mary, then logically she is the ‘Mother of God’.
 
“Mary Mother of God” implies that Mary existed before God and that is the objection you will always get. When you explain the logical concept that Mary is the mother of Jesus; Jesus is God; therefore Mary is the mother of God, then you get a genuinely Nestorian response. It will usually go something like, “But Mary was only the mother of the Jesus the man.” I went through this once with a well educated person and at that point told her that this is a Nestorian view that she was expressing. She agreed wholeheartedly and then said, “You know, Nestorius was right about Mary and the Council of Ephesus was wrong.”

Few will be so forthright, but the truth is that most Protestants, at least those of the Evangelical stripe, are Nestorians.
 
Because, for most, it sounds like “Mary, mother of the Blessed Trinity.”

I could see the confusion. It would be much less confusing to most protestants and otherwise, if it was said “Mary, Mother of God the Son”, which is Jesus, who is part of the Most Holy Trinity.
 
I know that one attack against the Catholic Church in regards to the Blessed Mother is the title “Mother of God”. Well, I assume the majority of us can agree on these points:
  • Mary is Jesus’ mother
  • Jesus is God incarnate
So, what is the deal with referring to Mary as the Mother of God?
I don’t understand … is this a contemporary criticism? I have assumed (perhaps wrongly) that most Protestants accepted the seven Councils, would this be a Mormon complaint, or (perhaps more likely) Jehovah Witness complaint?
 
But we call her Mother of God because we want to stress Jesus’ divinity, not because we want to stress her importance.

If Jesus was TRULY God, then Mary was the Mother of God… so we, Catholics, insist on calling her Mother of God so as to stress Jesus’ true divinity and humanity. 🤷
Yes I understand that but like I said it confuses a lot of people…especially those who are not Christian. It does not bother me, but I personally knew someone who thought that Christians believed that Mary was a goddess because he had heard so many people saying Mary the mother of God.

I completely get that it is logical
Mary = Jesus’ mother
Jesus = God
Mary = Mother of God

I just don’t like saying it because it leads to confusion and some people just think you believe in one thing without trying to clarify it like the person that I mentioned.

But when I say Mary the mother of Jesus people ask questions like “isn’t Jesus God?” Then I can explain that Jesus is God, but since he left his throne to come to earth as a sacrifice for all of us he came as fully human and fully God, and since he came down as fully human he had to be born of a human being. It gives me a teaching moment whereas if I said mother of God it would just leave them confused. Sure they might understand what I mean or ask questions, but I do not want to risk it, especially with people who are not familiar with Christianity.
 
Yes I understand that but like I said it confuses a lot of people…especially those who are not Christian. It does not bother me, but I personally knew someone who thought that Christians believed that Mary was a goddess …
I knew a Roman Catholic woman (obviously not well catechized) who thought that. When I tried to correct her she accused me of being something like a misogynist. It was a long time ago.



Holy Theotokos pray for us!
 
I knew a Roman Catholic woman (obviously not well catechized) who thought that. When I tried to correct her she accused me of being something like a misogynist. It was a long time ago.
:eek::eek::eek:

I’m sorry, some of our Catechesis over the past few decades has been quite poor, we are trying to sort that out! I hope examples like this are few and far between.
That we be made worthy of the promises of Christ

(on a side note, I shall attempt to find that Icon for cheapish, I really like it!)
 
A lot of protestants don’t quite get the 'fully human and fully God" thing. While they claim to be Trinitarian Christians, they really don’t quite understand the Nicene Creed’s implications.

“Mary worship” is a frequent criticism protestants raise against Catholics. In solo scriptora denominations it’s even worse.

**Lutherans and Anglicans sort of get it. **

If Christ is born of Mary, then logically she is the ‘Mother of God’.
“Sort of get it”? :cool:

EDIT; From the Formula of Concord
On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.
Jon
 
Sometimes “mother of God” said of Mary is misunderstood.
She is not the mother of God from all eternity, bringing God into existence,
but rather she is the mother of God in TIME, bringing Jesus into THIS world.
 
Sometimes “mother of God” said of Mary is misunderstood.
She is not the mother of God from all eternity, bringing God into existence,
but rather she is the mother of God in TIME, bringing Jesus into THIS world.
👍 That is a good way of explaining it
 
I know that one attack against the Catholic Church in regards to the Blessed Mother is the title “Mother of God”. Well, I assume the majority of us can agree on these points:
  • Mary is Jesus’ mother
  • Jesus is God incarnate
So, what is the deal with referring to Mary as the Mother of God?
I have no problem with it. Mary is indeed the mother of Jesus, who is the incarnate second Person of the Trinity, so there’s no question that she is in that sense indeed the Mother of God.
 
I know that one attack against the Catholic Church in regards to the Blessed Mother is the title “Mother of God”. Well, I assume the majority of us can agree on these points:
  • Mary is Jesus’ mother
  • Jesus is God incarnate
So, what is the deal with referring to Mary as the Mother of God?
Not a problem for Lutherans.
 
I think it is a knee jerk reaction rather then a logical reaction in most cases. Essentially calling her Mother of God seems like insinuating that she is on the same level as God, if not higher since she is the ‘mother’ and to us the mother is one who comes before, the one who is above the children… etc.

At least, that’s how I would have seen it when I was a Protestant and thus the term would have made me uncomfortable.
I completely get that, but it confuses a lot of people.

I once used that title for her and someone thought that I believed that before God there was Mary…because if God has a mother then the mother must have come before him. The Bible tells us that God has always existed which means he has no mother and no father. By saying she is the mother of God it can lead to confusion and make people think that 1. She has also always existed along, or 2. She has existed before God.
I’ve heard this thing before but it truly puzzles me!

Everyone in the World (Most, rather ;)) knows that Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ, who is/was a virgin. They know that Christians believe that Christ is God. So how/why would they be confused about the reason for calling Mary, the Mother of God? :confused: When this confusion is claimed by professing Christians it’s even more puzzling to me. 🤷

I agree with others that the only reason anyone would have a problem with this is if they were actually Nestorian in terms of their beliefs about the Person and nature of Christ, whether or not they knew they were.
I usually just use the term Mary mother of Jesus or Jesus’ earthly mother.
Hmm… But considering that Jesus has exactly ONE mother in any realm of existence, doesn’t Jesus’ earthly mother strike you as a strange description, generally speaking? I think that is probably or potentially more misleading than Mother of God.
 
Mary “is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit” (Lumen gentium, n. 53)
  1. The eighth chapter of the Constitution Lumen gentium shows in the mystery of Christ the absolutely necessary reference to Marian doctrine. In this regard, the first words of the Introduction are significant: “Wishing in his supreme goodness and wisdom to effect the redemption of the world, ‘when the fullness of time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman … that we might receive the adoption of sons’ (Gal 4:4-5)” (Lumen gentium, n. 52). This son is the Messiah awaited by the people of the Old Covenant, sent by the Father at a decisive moment of history, the “fullness of time” (Gal 4:4), which coincides with his birth in our world from a woman. She who brought the eternal Son of God to humanity can never be separated from him who is found at the centre of the divine plan carried out in history.
The primacy of Christ is shown forth in the Church, his Mystical Body: in her “the faithful are joined to Christ the Head and are in communion with all his saints” (cf. Lumen gentium, n. 52). It is Christ who draws all men to himself. Since in Her maternal role she is closely united with her Son, Mary helps direct the gaze and heart of believers towards him.

She is the way that leads to Christ: indeed, she who “at the message of the angel received the Word of God in her heart and in her body” (Lumen gentium, n. 53) shows us how to receive into our lives the Son come down from heaven, teaching us to make Jesus the centre and the supreme “law” of our existence.

A unique bond between Mary and the Holy Spirit
  1. Mary also helps us discover, at the origin of the whole work of salvation, the sovereign action of the Father who calls men to become sons in the one Son. Recalling the very beautiful expressions of the Letter to the Ephesians: “God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ” (Eph 2:4), the Council gives God the title “most merciful”: the Son “born of a woman” is thus seen as the fruit of the Father’s mercy and enables us to understand better how this Woman is the “mother of mercy”.
In the same context, the Council also calls God “most wise”, suggesting a particular attention to the close link between Mary and the divine wisdom, which in its mysterious plan willed the Virgin’s motherhood.
  1. The Council’s text also reminds us of the unique bond uniting Mary with the Holy Spirit, using the words of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which we recite in the Eucharistic liturgy: “For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man”.
Lumen gentium thus shows in a Trinitarian perspective an essential dimension of Marian doctrine. Everything in fact comes from the will of the Father, who has sent his Son into the world, revealing him to men and establishing him as the Head of the Church and the centre of history. This is a plan that was fulfilled by the Incarnation, the work of the Holy Spirit, but with the essential co-operation of a woman, the Virgin Mary, who thus became an integral part in the economy of communicating the Trinity to mankind.
  1. Mary’s threefold relationship with the divine Persons is confirmed in precise words and with a description of the characteristic relationship which links the Mother of the Lord to the Church: “She is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit” (Lumen gentium, n. 53).
Mary’s fundamental dignity is that of being “Mother of the Son”, which is expressed in Christian doctrine and devotion with the title “Mother of God”.

This is a surprising term, which shows the humility of God’s only-begotten Son in his Incarnation and, in connection with it, the most high privilege granted a creature who was called to give him birth in the flesh.

Mother of the Son, Mary is the “beloved daughter of the Father” in a unique way. She has been granted an utterly special likeness between her motherhood and the divine fatherhood.

And again: every Christian is a “temple of the Holy Spirit”, according to the Apostle Paul’s expression (1 Cor 6:19). But this assertion takes on an extraordinary meaning in Mary: in her the relationship with the Holy Spirit is enriched with a spousal dimension. I recalled this in the Encyclical Redemptoris Mater: “The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation, welcoming the Word of the true God…” (n. 26).

Mary’s dignity surpasses that of every creature
  1. Mary’s privileged relationship with the Trinity therefore confers on her a dignity which far surpasses that of every other creature. The Council recalls this explicitly: because of this “gift of sublime grace” Mary “far surpasses all creatures” (Lumen gentium, n. 53). However, this most high dignity does not hinder Mary’s solidarity with each of us. The Constitution Lumen gentium goes on to say: “But, being of the race of Adam, she is at the same time also united to all those who are to be saved” and she has been “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son” (ibid.).
Here we see the authentic meaning of Mary’s privileges and of Her extraordinary relationship with the Trinity: their purpose is to enable Her to co-operate in the salvation of the human race. The immeasurable greatness of the Lord’s Mother therefore remains a gift of God’s love for all men. By proclaiming her “Blessed” (Lk 1:48), generations praise the “great things” (Lk 1:49) the Almighty has done in Her for humanity, “in remembrance of His mercy” (Lk 1:54). (Blessed John Paul II)
 
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