I don't want to be a trophy wife

[flufinonis]

I’ll tell you the 10 things that’ve worked for me that I’m sure will help you.

1. Trust in God. If marriage is your vocation, He will put infront of you the perfect person you (both) need, usually the moment you less expect. Let it in His hands and don’t worry about it.

2. Pray. Pray for patience. Pray for him. Pray for a pure heart. Pray to find out which is your vocation. Ask Mary for help. She’s the perfect role model.
I used to pray everyday like this:
Lord, If it’s Your will for me to get married, please put infront of me the person who will help me (and also him) in our journey to Heaven, let it be a saint marriage and please protect him now (even if I don’t know him yet).

3. Know yourself. Letting God be the match-maker leaves you time to know yourself. Who you are, and what you really are looking for in a marriage or in a relationship. Which is your relationship with God and strengthten it. Know your faith. Improve in those aspects that don’t please God very much, train yourself in the virtues.

4. Learn to trully love God. Stengthten your relationship with him. Ask him to teach you to love with His true love. Now. Everyday of your life.
If you learn to love God, you’ll be able to love with His love. You’ll be able to forgive with Christ’s love. You’ll be able to be compassionate, to trust, you won’t be jealous of anything. You won’t be selfish.
Selfishness is what usually generates fights destroys relationships. Being used as an object is a product of it. Same as jealousy, which blinds the person. It’s what happens when people is self-centered.

5. Clean your mind and soul. Try avoiding books, movies and music that banalize sex, women, relationships and/or uses foul language. It’s hard, I know. But women who get rid of all that, get so beautiful in the inside and it’s easier to have a clean mind and erase those kind of cultural rules that you have to kiss like this, that, touch here, do that, cuddle like this, wait for this or that, it’s frustrating and enslaving! (then you’ll have to try your boyfriend agrees in trying to do the same. Specially porn is a huge issue, and sometimes we don’t realize or make it look less)

**6. **Search what the Church says about love, relationships, the Theology of the Body, etc. It’s beautiful. Read. There are many books, videos, there are the JP II catechesis, etc.
I personally love Jason Evert books and conferences (I watch them on youtube) and JP II’s book “Love and Responsibility”, among others.

7. “Truth will set you free”. Be truthful and sincere, and get rid of masks. Make sure the other person is like that as well. It does set you free and you don’t have to worry about a ton of things.

**8. Don’t judge very much, but be very clear with what you want and expect from the begining. Talking helps a lot. Physical expressions do not. Better leave them for the formal relationship and the slower they evolve the better (the best if some are avoided). The spiritual intimacy you get though deep conversations and forgiveness is a ton times better than a wet kiss or cuddling.
I was very judgmental when I met my actual boyfriend. He wasn’t catholic. That was a big cons for me. But I let it in God’s hands, and told this guy that I wasn’t having a boyfriend for “fun”, that the goal was to search if marriage was our vocation and that I was having a christian relationship. (he even searched what that was and liked it, and agreed with it). He eventually converted (without my help, just prayer) and now it amazes me and even helps me spiritually.
**
9. Have a spiritual director.

10.. Get in a movement, form a comunity of christians searching for an adult faith.
It’ll help you spiritually, and eventually will help your marriage and your family. I guarantee. I’ve seen my family change for better. I’ve seen my actual boyfriend fall in love with Christ, the church, despite the hard times and working in an artistic environment. I’ve seen a friend in my own comunity (who’s a runway model too) find in it a family, support, strength to survive the industry and chill a bit in her “need” to be in a relationship.
There are lots of them, for example, there’s Schoenstatt, the Charismatic Renewal, the Neocatechumenal way, etc, to name a few.

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

Just so you know, men face this predicament too. As someone who is seeking a Catholic who is in the top percentiles of intelligence and beauty and who has appreciation for fine culture and an ambition for the spotlight (if she’s with me, she’s going to have to deal with the spotlight), believe me, it’s no easier on my end.

 

[BellsMom]

Maybe there is a bit of a contradiction in how you are looking at your life situation. You don’t want to be a trophy wife. I think what that means is you do not want to be valued for what is only skin deep, being pretty. On the other hand you have chosen a “profession” for your life where being pretty and being admired for one’s looks is the job qualification. You don’t like the sex, drugs and rock and roll sicko culture you are immersed in, but you don’t want to leave it, just yet. It seems you have a choice. Either stay where you are, where your looks are your currency, or leave and seek a place where life has meaning and is not so superficial. Why live in a snake pit? Why chose to live there unless you either want to be there and be in a job that is all veneer and glitz or have no other options?

This.

 

[JamesBond007]

Well I would never dream of asking a man out. Call me old school, but that’s not very lady- like.
I am however, very friendly and kind to every one. I am most definitely not a flirt but some people misinterpret my kindness for more than what it is. But yes, what you said about some men having insecurity makes sense. Thank you for the reply.

How is telling someone you have a romantic interest in them “not lady-like?” So its OK for a guy to go out on a limb and risk the feelings of rejection but women are just supposed to sit back and await the flattery?

My wife was the one that made the first move and we wouldn’t be married if she didn’t. After awhile decent guys get tired of the games and shenanigans and quit. If you want a decent guy you are going to have dig. He isn’t just going to fall from the sky.

 

[runwaymodel]

How is telling someone you have a romantic interest in them “not lady-like?” So its OK for a guy to go out on a limb and risk the feelings of rejection but women are just supposed to sit back and await the flattery?

My wife was the one that made the first move and we wouldn’t be married if she didn’t. After awhile decent guys get tired of the games and shenanigans and quit. If you want a decent guy you are going to have dig. He isn’t just going to fall from the sky.

And I am very happy for you that your wife was about to do that, however, I like the more traditional process of courtship. Men do have to make the first move. I’m sorry, but that’s how I feel. As a female I would never play games and lead a man on if I had zero interest because my time and his time is valuable. If I were interested after he made the initial contact, then I would certainly let him know.

This is personally how I feel. I don’t know many woman who would ask a man out, but if they do that’s fine. We don’t “sit back and await the flattery”, as you put it. I don’t see how that has anything to do with courtship unless it’s from a previous personal experience.

 

[runwaymodel]

This is all very interesting.

When I was a young man dating, I wasn’t bad looking, but I was a bit shorter than average, and though I was unusually strong, I didn’t look it…not all ripped and that.

I’ll confess that I sometimes went out with young women just to show off. I was particularly fond of going out with some stunning woman who was taller than me; just to make the other guys think “he must sure be a h–l of a guy. What’s he got?” I went out with a pro football team cheerleader just so other guys would know it, and I did date a beautiful nightclub singer, all for the same reason. Guys are vain like that sometimes. Maddeningly so, perhaps, to women at times. Sometimes you date a woman for the impression it might make on other men.

So, there’s vanity involved in all of that, or certainly can be. But vanity was far from being my real motivator in dating. I was actually looking for a wife the whole time. But it’s true that appearance mattered to me.

But is it true? Many people say that once a person is out of school suitable mates become very scarce. I don’t really believe that. It’s just that contacts shrink around one’s workplace, parish and otherwise applicable social activities. And, recognizing that it’s harder for women because men can be very brash and forward whereas women are (probably rightly) reluctant to be. It’s very difficult for me to believe every man in Southern California is a skunk. Probably the skunk ratio is no greater than it is in St. Louis or Memphis.

So, in my mind, Runway’s problem is, as some have suggested, likely amenable to her widening her circles. Well, okay, she might consider “dolling down” at least a bit if she’s used to the extreme “dolling up” one associates with modeling. Sometimes a stunning appearance is not so much a matter of beauty as it is one of excess, and an experienced man knows excess when he sees it and draws conclusions from it, right or wrong.

Personally, I think Runway will find “Mr. Right”, even in So Cal. But I’m guessing that widening her circles is likely the key. One has to “be there” in order to 'be met".

Yes, I don’t mind going fresh faced on regular days when I’m not shooting. I have admitted to taking pride in my appearance when I go out, but I wouldn’t feel weird if I was caught in sweats and my hair undone. I’m not arrogant in terms on superficial beauty at all.
But thank you for sharing. I definitely intend on expanding my social circle even more.

AuditVocemMeam

Just so you know, men face this predicament too. As someone who is seeking a Catholic who is in the top percentiles of intelligence and beauty and who has appreciation for fine culture and an ambition for the spotlight (if she’s with me, she’s going to have to deal with the spotlight), believe me, it’s no easier on my end.

Of course. Dating can be difficult in general. I just feel…almost guilty or weird for talking about my ‘issues’ when to someone else they don’t seem like big problems at all. But I do appreciate all the responses.

 

[runwaymodel]

I’ll tell you the 10 things that’ve worked for me that I’m sure will help you.

1. Trust in God. If marriage is your vocation, He will put infront of you the perfect person you (both) need, usually the moment you less expect. Let it in His hands and don’t worry about it.

2. Pray. Pray for patience. Pray for him. Pray for a pure heart. Pray to find out which is your vocation. Ask Mary for help. She’s the perfect role model.
I used to pray everyday like this:
Lord, If it’s Your will for me to get married, please put infront of me the person who will help me (and also him) in our journey to Heaven, let it be a saint marriage and please protect him now (even if I don’t know him yet).

3. Know yourself. Letting God be the match-maker leaves you time to know yourself. Who you are, and what you really are looking for in a marriage or in a relationship. Which is your relationship with God and strengthten it. Know your faith. Improve in those aspects that don’t please God very much, train yourself in the virtues.

4. Learn to trully love God. Stengthten your relationship with him. Ask him to teach you to love with His true love. Now. Everyday of your life.
If you learn to love God, you’ll be able to love with His love. You’ll be able to forgive with Christ’s love. You’ll be able to be compassionate, to trust, you won’t be jealous of anything. You won’t be selfish.
Selfishness is what usually generates fights destroys relationships. Being used as an object is a product of it. Same as jealousy, which blinds the person. It’s what happens when people is self-centered.

5. Clean your mind and soul. Try avoiding books, movies and music that banalize sex, women, relationships and/or uses foul language. It’s hard, I know. But women who get rid of all that, get so beautiful in the inside and it’s easier to have a clean mind and erase those kind of cultural rules that you have to kiss like this, that, touch here, do that, cuddle like this, wait for this or that, it’s frustrating and enslaving! (then you’ll have to try your boyfriend agrees in trying to do the same. Specially porn is a huge issue, and sometimes we don’t realize or make it look less)

**6. **Search what the Church says about love, relationships, the Theology of the Body, etc. It’s beautiful. Read. There are many books, videos, there are the JP II catechesis, etc.
I personally love Jason Evert books and conferences (I watch them on youtube) and JP II’s book “Love and Responsibility”, among others.

7. “Truth will set you free”. Be truthful and sincere, and get rid of masks. Make sure the other person is like that as well. It does set you free and you don’t have to worry about a ton of things.

**8. Don’t judge very much, but be very clear with what you want and expect from the begining. Talking helps a lot. Physical expressions do not. Better leave them for the formal relationship and the slower they evolve the better (the best if some are avoided). The spiritual intimacy you get though deep conversations and forgiveness is a ton times better than a wet kiss or cuddling.
I was very judgmental when I met my actual boyfriend. He wasn’t catholic. That was a big cons for me. But I let it in God’s hands, and told this guy that I wasn’t having a boyfriend for “fun”, that the goal was to search if marriage was our vocation and that I was having a christian relationship. (he even searched what that was and liked it, and agreed with it). He eventually converted (without my help, just prayer) and now it amazes me and even helps me spiritually.
**
9. Have a spiritual director.

10.. Get in a movement, form a comunity of christians searching for an adult faith.
It’ll help you spiritually, and eventually will help your marriage and your family. I guarantee. I’ve seen my family change for better. I’ve seen my actual boyfriend fall in love with Christ, the church, despite the hard times and working in an artistic environment. I’ve seen a friend in my own comunity (who’s a runway model too) find in it a family, support, strength to survive the industry and chill a bit in her “need” to be in a relationship.
There are lots of them, for example, there’s Schoenstatt, the Charismatic Renewal, the Neocatechumenal way, etc, to name a few.

Bless you for this. Wonderful advice. I am doing a lot of this already.
You know, I totally agree with taking it slow in dating. I recall with one particular man I was dating for about 3 months he started to get frustrated because I wouldn’t advance the relationship physically more than kissing, no make out kissing either, just simple ones. But I let him know upfront that these were my morals and though I wasn’t a virgin I was intending on waiting until marriage from now on. To make a long story short I had to end the relationship because he believed I was using my ‘virtuous front to be manipulative’.
I will not tolerate that kind of disrespect or insecurity. But I’m glad i ended things right there instead of wasting time with someone who clearly did not understand or respect my boundaries.

 

[manualman]

How is telling someone you have a romantic interest in them “not lady-like?” So its OK for a guy to go out on a limb and risk the feelings of rejection but women are just supposed to sit back and await the flattery?

I’m wither on this one. Men need to practice putting their towering and fragile egos on the line. Maybe women do too, but based on my observations I think society at large needs men to have MORE ego checks, not less.

Waiting for him to initiate might unintentionally weed out some underconfident, but otherwise virtuous catches out there. But frankly, guys need to be willing to risk it. If a guy doesn’t have the guts to risk rejection, he’s not ready to be marriage material yet. Marriage requires guts, determination and perseverance. It sure took me long enough to decide to just risk it more often. It was sure good for my character.

Yes, there are plenty of guys out there so egotistical that they simply don’t care if they are rejected. There are other ways to weed those guys out.

 

[mek42]

I’m wither on this one. Men need to practice putting their towers ng and fragile egos on the line. Maybe women do too, but based on my observations I think society at large needs men to have MORE ego checks, not less.

Waiting for him to initiate might unintentionally weed out some underconfident, but otherwise virtuous catches out there. But frankly, guys need to be willing to risk it. If a guy doesn’t have the guts to risk rejection, he’s not ready to be marriage material yet. Marriage requires guts, determination and perseverance. It sure took me long enough to decide to just risk it more often. It was sure good for my character.

Yes, there are plenty of guys out there so egotistical that they simply don’t care if they are rejected. There are other ways to weed those guys out.

How does a guy know whether the girl is strong and confident enough to be marriage material if the guy asks first?

 

[chevalier]

Don’t think ill of men find you beautiful and even talking much of it and in clumsy way. That of itself doesn’t yet mean they’re objectifying you (or they might be, slightly, but work-of-art-kind-of, which is still objectifying but not as bad as some other kinds). Doesn’t mean they don’t appreciate the brains or the character or the morals. And doesn’t make you vain, (after all, you don’t think you created yourself as pretty as you are, Someone else did, so if they’re admiring a work of His, chastely, well, nothing wrong with that and certainly nothing to hold against you.)

Also, if you wanted to be super safe, you’d need to avoid regarding your good looks as any sort of advantage yourself, I guess. If you emphasise it, so will men (and this isn’t actually uniformly bad).

Oh, and men have a similar type of insecurity/fear regarding their accomplishments, jobs, money etc. (and yeah, in some cases even looks).

 

[Kindness]

Interesting comments regarding asking women out. I am not American and when I was at college in the US I was surprised at how little the men approached women, in fact many women were taking the initiative asking men out. In my own culture (which is not a macho culture) men generally still make the first move. In fact I had men staring at me in class in the US and one I thought seems to have an attractive personality but he never approached me. Many men seemed on the immature side to be honest. There were so many gorgeous girls that would’ve been fighting guys off in my culture that never got asked on dates, I found it really strange.

But I guess in my culture being able to talk to women, interest them, entertain them make them laugh is part of the ritual. It’s called “chatting someone up” - it means showing an interest and being able to engage in lighthearted chat to get to know each other. Even in the 90s it seemed that all the dating rituals had been abandoned in the US for “hooking up”.

My husband is American but we were friends, I knew he liked me but I assumed he just was looking for a fling which I was definitely not. So we stayed friends until he suddenly confessed how much he cared about me and it wasn’t superficial.

I don’t mean to insult American men by this post, I think American culture has created a situation where young men and women don’t know how to approach each other and end up having lots of short, strange, disfunctional relationships. It’s probably exaggerated in LA but it is definitely not exclusive to it.

I know many people who met their spouse at St. Thomas Aquinas College in Southern Cal. Maybe they have seminars or one-off events you could attend OP because I know there are many young men associated with that institution who understand the vocation of marriage and are looking to pursue it. I would agree with finding a spiritual director and joining some Catholic movements to find like minded friends of both genders.

I guess this post was just to agree with you OP. I am a strong, independent thinker but I never asked a guy out or pursued a man. If a man likes you he should be able to approach you - that is normal in every culture I have ever lived in. A normal social skill, I couldn’t be attracted to a man who was so passive. I will teach my American son how to approach women if necessary! I would say his odds will be really good at finding a wonderful women as so many men are ignoring the women all around them.

I think a lot of problem is that young people are not seeing healthy dating modeled anywhere and so young people in the US feel very confused.

 

[manualman]

How does a guy know whether the girl is strong and confident enough to be marriage material if the guy asks first?

I meet 50 absurdly egomaniac guys for every ONE woman I meet like that. Real problems are rather more pressing than imaginary ones.

 

[runwaymodel]

Interesting comments regarding asking women out. I am not American and when I was at college in the US I was surprised at how little the men approached women, in fact many women were taking the initiative asking men out. In my own culture (which is not a macho culture) men generally still make the first move. In fact I had men staring at me in class in the US and one I thought seems to have an attractive personality but he never approached me. Many men seemed on the immature side to be honest. There were so many gorgeous girls that would’ve been fighting guys off in my culture that never got asked on dates, I found it really strange.

But I guess in my culture being able to talk to women, interest them, entertain them make them laugh is part of the ritual. It’s called “chatting someone up” - it means showing an interest and being able to engage in lighthearted chat to get to know each other. Even in the 90s it seemed that all the dating rituals had been abandoned in the US for “hooking up”.

My husband is American but we were friends, I knew he liked me but I assumed he just was looking for a fling which I was definitely not. So we stayed friends until he suddenly confessed how much he cared about me and it wasn’t superficial.

I don’t mean to insult American men by this post, I think American culture has created a situation where young men and women don’t know how to approach each other and end up having lots of short, strange, disfunctional relationships. It’s probably exaggerated in LA but it is definitely not exclusive to it.

I know many people who met their spouse at St. Thomas Aquinas College in Southern Cal. Maybe they have seminars or one-off events you could attend OP because I know there are many young men associated with that institution who understand the vocation of marriage and are looking to pursue it. I would agree with finding a spiritual director and joining some Catholic movements to find like minded friends of both genders.

I guess this post was just to agree with you OP. I am a strong, independent thinker but I never asked a guy out or pursued a man. If a man likes you he should be able to approach you - that is normal in every culture I have ever lived in. A normal social skill, I couldn’t be attracted to a man who was so passive. I will teach my American son how to approach women if necessary! I would say his odds will be really good at finding a wonderful women as so many men are ignoring the women all around them.

I think a lot of problem is that young people are not seeing healthy dating modeled anywhere and so young people in the US feel very confused.

Very interesting perspective. Agreed. I could never date a man who doesn’t have the courage to pursue me. It just shows lack of drive and motivation. As woman I suppose the most they could do to initiate interest in flirt a little, but for the most part I am a traditionalist in regards to those courtship roles.

 

[runwaymodel]

Don’t think ill of men find you beautiful and even talking much of it and in clumsy way. That of itself doesn’t yet mean they’re objectifying you (or they might be, slightly, but work-of-art-kind-of, which is still objectifying but not as bad as some other kinds). Doesn’t mean they don’t appreciate the brains or the character or the morals. And doesn’t make you vain, (after all, you don’t think you created yourself as pretty as you are, Someone else did, so if they’re admiring a work of His, chastely, well, nothing wrong with that and certainly nothing to hold against you.)

Also, if you wanted to be super safe, you’d need to avoid regarding your good looks as any sort of advantage yourself, I guess. If you emphasise it, so will men (and this isn’t actually uniformly bad).

Oh, and men have a similar type of insecurity/fear regarding their accomplishments, jobs, money etc. (and yeah, in some cases even looks).

I agree with that. I understand that wanting an attractive partner (especially as a male) is not a bad thing, as long as it’s not the top priority. Just like a woman who wants a man who is more finically secure than her, nothing wrong with that as long as it’s not the main focus.

 

[mek42]

OP, good luck with everything. I hope that you find who you are hoping will find you.

 

[Bataar]

This is a hard subject that reinforces my view that I’ll probably never be married. I’m not a shy person, but I need to have something to talk about when I talk to someone. Small talk is one of the worst things in the world, IMO. If I see a woman that I’m attracted to, but I don’t know anything about her, I don’t have anything to talk to her about and therefore, won’t say anything. It’s not because I’m shy or afraid of rejection, I just don’t know what to talk to her about.

If she sees me and is attracted to me, I’d like to think she’d feel comfortable talking to me (assuming she doesn’t have the same neurological issues I do), in which case, she’d meet a great guy who would treat her wonderfully.

 

[mek42]

I hear the train from Seattle to LA is quite scenic.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Fishing for a date with the OP?
CAF a match maker forum? Who knew?
Would not be surprised if the OP has received PM’s offering a date.

 

[Captain_America]

Very interesting perspective. Agreed. I could never date a man who doesn’t have the courage to pursue me. It just shows lack of drive and motivation. As woman I suppose the most they could do to initiate interest in flirt a little, but for the most part I am a traditionalist in regards to those courtship roles.

ONE blocking factor that women simply cannot appreciate is that many times, the young man interested in asking a woman out isn’t just interested in having one good time, or just getting to know, but may be feeling substantially greater interest, perhaps viewing her as THE one. In that case, predictably, the male’s tossed a lot more pressure on himself to come up with successful dialogue with a person that he may not know very well. Self-induced pressure.

And typically, men are raised with less experience in the Art of Conversation, or, if you wish, “small talk” or “chat.”

OP: for what it’s worth, the times I’ve had women ask me out, I’ve felt enormously flattered (“what? me? of sexual interest?”) and usually went out with them whether or not I felt or cared much. (I know one instance I said “no” and this was to a female friend who I just would not want to go down that route at all).

So if you ask a guy out, you’re likely to get a date.

It’s interesting, the above comment on how spineless and juvenile American men are. THIS is because American men have been sold a bill of goods by society about their manhood: to wit, men should act like boys, should give a hoot about pro (couch-sitting) sports). I pity younger men, who have been raised on cable TV and videogames—as if this stuff somehow put them in touch with reality—and who, for the past generation, have been told that they drool, while girls rulel; been a TON of male-bashing over the past 10-15 years.

Add to this the thoughtless, crazy proliferation of pornography. And non-communication devices such as texting and email. DAMN GLAD I’m not a young man!

Add to that the huge numbers of young men raised by single mothers. American masculinity is in a mess. And of course, when one suggests that males act more like men, there is a TON of political suspicion, since for some, men are always bad news at all times everywhere. . … and that “progress” means shucking the notion of masculinity.

 

[Serap]

I haven’t read through all the posts.,…about 1/2 of them

So…my take. I am now 42, but when I was younger, I was also very beautiful and I attracted a lot of men…good ones, gross ones and rude ones. Often men think if a girl is beautiful, she’s on display or something and they have the right to judge you.

You live in L.A. and while yes, many people there are flakey, druggy and not marriage material, there ARE inevitably men there who will love you and cherish you for who you are…it’s just a matter of time before you meet him. You need to know exactly what you are looking for and put yourself out there. Through caution to the wind and give dating a chance. You may have to kiss 100 frogs before you find your prince, but kissing 100 frogs to find your true match is definitely worth it.

My girlfriend lives in L.A. She is a very reputable entertainment journalist who works at the Oscars and interviews A-list celebrities. She is also a movie critic. She knows L.A. and she understands the culture. BUT…she gave L.A. men a chance and threw caution to the wind. She ended up marrying a very successful producer who is like-minded and he’s an awesome guy!!! They have been married 13 years, have 2 beautiful daughters and are happy. It can happen in L.A.!!!

Just don’t be discouraged and pray that the right man comes a long. Sometimes God’s answer is “not yet” b/c He has a plan for us. He may have the right guy for you, but you won’t meet him until next year.

Keep busy, throw caution to the wind, date and don’t be discouraged.