I enjoy the Novus Ordo Mass ...

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ddd86

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I’ve been crawling about these forums for a few months and eventually signed up a little while ago. One thing I’ve noticed whilst browsing the forums is a constant “bashing” of the Novus Ordo Mass.

Now, i’ll set the scene … I’m 21 years old so of course I wasn’t around before Vatican II. I have experienced the Trinidine Mass a number of times and on all occasions I felt I prefer the Novus Ordo Mass.

I enjoy my modern Catholic Church. I feel spiritually fulfilled whilst praying before our Blessed Lord present in the tabernacle. I enjoy the folk Mass every other Saturday evening Vigil, I like the Modern Gothic Chasuble and I don’t mind receiving our Blessed Lord from a EMHC.

I feel like i’m out of place within these forums. Do you believe I am wrong to feel this way in regard to the Mass? Should I not feel a love for the Lord whilst participating in the “Modern” Mass? Please Advise

God Bless.
 
Enjoy because it is your right, but it seems that you want to push peoples buttons, and I hope you enjoy that also.
 
ddd86 said:
I’ve been crawling about these forums for a few months and eventually signed up a little while ago. One thing I’ve noticed whilst browsing the forums is a constant “bashing” of the Novus Ordo Mass.

Now, i’ll set the scene … I’m 21 years old so of course I wasn’t around before Vatican II. I have experienced the Trinidine Mass a number of times and on all occasions I felt I prefer the Novus Ordo Mass.

I enjoy my modern Catholic Church. I feel spiritually fulfilled whilst praying before our Blessed Lord present in the tabernacle. I enjoy the folk Mass every other Saturday evening Vigil, I like the Modern Gothic Chasuble and I don’t mind receiving our Blessed Lord from a EMHC.

I feel like i’m out of place within these forums. Do you believe I am wrong to feel this way in regard to the Mass? Should I not feel a love for the Lord whilst participating in the “Modern” Mass? Please Advise

God Bless.
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No, many people here love and enjoy the Ordinary Form of the Mass. What are being bashed are the abuses that take place contrary to the norms laid down by the Church, and most people here hate that. What they want is the Novus Ordo celebrated as it was meant to be: reverently, noble simplicity with generous selections of Gregorian Chant and Latin. But even properly celebrated vernacular Masses or careful selections of modern compositions can make for a beautiful Mass.

I like the Gothic chasuble as well, and while I don’t like the proliferation of EMHC’s, their use is legitimate and I accept that. As for folk, I do not know exactly what that sounds like, but while the pipe organ has pride of place, other instruments are not disallowed, for as long as the sense of the sacred is preserved. If folk can do that, well and good.

The “modern” Mass is still Mass, duly promulgated and approved by the Church, and as such, bashing it is out of the question.
 
I think a big part of the problem is that in many places it is incredibly difficult to find a Novus Ordo Mass that is not filled with a variety of liturgical abuses let alone one that actually has any sense of reverence at all. Such Masses seem to be even rarer than Tridentine Masses.

It is not necessarily wrong to like folk music and the use of EMHCs. But please realize that for many people these things do not help but actually hurt their faith. While folk music is permitted the Church has been saying for many decades that Gregorian Chant should be the norm - and it is almost impossible to find.

And while EMHCs may be permitted I don’t think I have ever once been to a Sunday Mass where it was possible to justify the number of EMHCs being used. We have reached the point where it is very common that Extraordinary Ministers are not used because of a need for more people to distribute communion. Rather, they are often used so that more people can “actively participate” in the Mass.

If you are one of the lucky ones who has found a Mass to go to that uplifts you then that is awesome. But it is not so easy for alot of people. I practically have to drive past 3 parishes to get to one that actually follows the rubrics of the Mass (and also offers the Tridentine Mass but that is beside the point).

But, I will say that if you like things about the Mass that you attend that the Church does not allow (lay preachers, the people gathering around the altar, changing the words of the Mass, improper vestments, etc) then there really is a problem. A priest who introduces or allows such things is in grave sin (and most likely in mortal sin) and should not in any way be encouraged to continue these things.

In conclusion very few people here actually bash the Novus Ordo Mass. What they bash is the Novus Ordo Mass as it is typically celebrated in many if not most parishes. And I think that in many cases that should be bashed.

James
 
Every board has a “culture” and it is the culture of this board to favor the Tridentine Latin Mass and to find abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass.

If you are going to participate on this board (particularly the Liturgy and Sacraments forum), you have to be able to tolerate this mindset.

I tend to skip the threads that bash the NO Mass and read the threads that are instructive.
 
ddd86 said:
I’ve been crawling about these forums for a few months and eventually signed up a little while ago. One thing I’ve noticed whilst browsing the forums is a constant “bashing” of the Novus Ordo Mass.

Now, i’ll set the scene … I’m 21 years old so of course I wasn’t around before Vatican II. I have experienced the Trinidine Mass a number of times and on all occasions I felt I prefer the Novus Ordo Mass.

I enjoy my modern Catholic Church. I feel spiritually fulfilled whilst praying before our Blessed Lord present in the tabernacle. I enjoy the folk Mass every other Saturday evening Vigil, I like the Modern Gothic Chasuble and I don’t mind receiving our Blessed Lord from a EMHC.

I feel like i’m out of place within these forums. Do you believe I am wrong to feel this way in regard to the Mass? Should I not feel a love for the Lord whilst participating in the “Modern” Mass? Please Advise

God Bless.
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Hey!
I love the NO as well. I have been to the TLM, but I prefer the NO. However- and others have said this- I detest liturgical abuses. Give me the Mass, but leave out your interpretation.
EMHCs are another matter…

BTW- If you are in an area where you can go to an Anglican-Use Mass (Vatican approved rite, as well) GO!!!
 
I think you fit in just fine with that attitude. Most people are happy with the mass as it is. But the people who go to parishes that have abuses often bring it up here.

I’ve never seen any of the abuses that are mentioned here. I’ve been to parishes with different styles of music but nothing upsetting.
ddd86 said:
I’ve been crawling about these forums for a few months and eventually signed up a little while ago. One thing I’ve noticed whilst browsing the forums is a constant “bashing” of the Novus Ordo Mass.

Now, i’ll set the scene … I’m 21 years old so of course I wasn’t around before Vatican II. I have experienced the Trinidine Mass a number of times and on all occasions I felt I prefer the Novus Ordo Mass.

I enjoy my modern Catholic Church. I feel spiritually fulfilled whilst praying before our Blessed Lord present in the tabernacle. I enjoy the folk Mass every other Saturday evening Vigil, I like the Modern Gothic Chasuble and I don’t mind receiving our Blessed Lord from a EMHC.

I feel like i’m out of place within these forums. Do you believe I am wrong to feel this way in regard to the Mass? Should I not feel a love for the Lord whilst participating in the “Modern” Mass? Please Advise

God Bless.
Click to expand...
 
jpjd said:
Every board has a “culture” and it is the culture of this board to favor the Tridentine Latin Mass and to find abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass.

If you are going to participate on this board (particularly the Liturgy and Sacraments forum), you have to be able to tolerate this mindset.

I tend to skip the threads that bash the NO Mass and read the threads that are instructive.
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A lot of NOs have abuses. By knowing what can and cannot be done, we are doing what we have been instructed by the Pope to do (sorry, I cannot remember the documents name right now).
Unfortunately, you don’t see the joy that we all have at Mass. You only see our frustrations and questions that we post.
 
ddd86 said:
I’ve been crawling about these forums for a few months and eventually signed up a little while ago. One thing I’ve noticed whilst browsing the forums is a constant “bashing” of the Novus Ordo Mass.

Now, i’ll set the scene … I’m 21 years old so of course I wasn’t around before Vatican II. I have experienced the Trinidine Mass a number of times and on all occasions I felt I prefer the Novus Ordo Mass.

I enjoy my modern Catholic Church. I feel spiritually fulfilled whilst praying before our Blessed Lord present in the tabernacle. I enjoy the folk Mass every other Saturday evening Vigil, I like the Modern Gothic Chasuble and I don’t mind receiving our Blessed Lord from a EMHC.

I feel like i’m out of place within these forums. Do you believe I am wrong to feel this way in regard to the Mass? Should I not feel a love for the Lord whilst participating in the “Modern” Mass? Please Advise

God Bless.
Click to expand...
It’s not that you are out of place in these forums. Although I really love the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, all we have in my diocese is the Ordinary Form. The Ordinary Form can be very beautiful when celebrated in the manner the Church asks and requires.

However, the Ordinary Form has suffered from many abuses. In fact, the Holy See came out with a document called Redemptionis Sacramentum that outlines what is allowed and what is not and the remedies to correct the problem. In 2004, when the late Pope John Paul II convened the Synod on the Eucharist, one of the topics up for discussion was the many “shadows” that have cast a pall of darkness over the Ordinary Form. These included the issues of music, homilies “preached” by the laity, issues with Youth Masses and so forth. These topics were discussed during the Synod and Pope Benedict XVI released his document, called Sacramentum Caritatis, in answer to these concerns. He made some very telling observations that concur with those he made as Cardinal Ratzinger (regarding Sacred Music, in particular).

As far as the use of EMHC’s are concerned, there are some problems with the over-use. The ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are the priest, bishop and deacon. What RS states is that the EMHC is simply allowed only for extraordinary circumstances, as the name implies. Obviously, if you are going to have 1,000 communicants at Mass, the ordinary ministers need help. However, when the communicants number at 100, or so, then the ordinary ministers can handle that. It is an abuse to over-use the EMHC, especially when the circulstances don’t warrant the need.

No one here is saying that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is bad. In quite a few areas, though, it’s just fraught with abuses that need to be corrected. Celebrated correctly, it is magnificent. Just watch the Papal Masses. Under Pope Benedict’s guidance, they have truly become a very prayerful experience, even when caught on TV. He is setting the standard for how the Ordinary form of the Mass should be celebrated.
 
ddd86 said:
I’ve been crawling about these forums for a few months and eventually signed up a little while ago. One thing I’ve noticed whilst browsing the forums is a constant “bashing” of the Novus Ordo Mass.

Now, i’ll set the scene … I’m 21 years old so of course I wasn’t around before Vatican II. I have experienced the Trinidine Mass a number of times and on all occasions I felt I prefer the Novus Ordo Mass.

I enjoy my modern Catholic Church. I feel spiritually fulfilled whilst praying before our Blessed Lord present in the tabernacle. I enjoy the folk Mass every other Saturday evening Vigil, I like the Modern Gothic Chasuble and I don’t mind receiving our Blessed Lord from a EMHC.

I feel like i’m out of place within these forums. Do you believe I am wrong to feel this way in regard to the Mass? Should I not feel a love for the Lord whilst participating in the “Modern” Mass? Please Advise

God Bless.
Click to expand...
No- not wrong…just uneducated.

Read the small books published by Michael Davies and you will come around and do your best to support the EF of the Mass that many want to see destroyed and forgotten.

I will just give one example-

In the Novus Ordo the people and the priest pray the Confiteor together.

Previously, the priest prayed the confiteor first and then the deacon and subdeacon or server/MC would pray it on behalf of the people. In Dialogue Mass the people would pray the confiteor seperately from the priest also.

The first to do away with the seperate Confiteor’s and instutute a common one that the celebrant and people would recite together were the Protestants. They did this because they knew the Catholics had the confiteor done seperately by the priest and then the people to show the difference between the priest and the people. Then the Novus ordo comes along and does the same thing the Protestants did- common confiteor.

Second is the removal of the offertory prayers. The first to remove the Offertory Prayers was Martin Luther because of their Sacrificial aspects. The NO follows this same pattern with removing the offertory prayers.

We can go on about other things such as communion in the hand (protestants re-introduced the practice to show disbelief in the real presence and Catholic priesthood), Mass facing the people on a table instead of priest and people facing the same direction on an altar of sacrifice (protestants made their celebrants face the people and on a table instead of altar).

I attend the OF Mass only when I cannot get to the EF. I abhore it. My wife always tells me not to complain about “The Captain and Tennile” up there with their guitars, priest not wearing proper vestments, using wine glass instead of chalice- holding hands with the altar girl, clown masses, pizza consecration masses, halloween masses where priest dresses as Satan…I can go on and on.

Ken
 
No- not wrong…just uneducated.
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Read the small books published by Michael Davies and you will come around and do your best to support the EF of the Mass that many want to see destroyed and forgotten.
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Oh come off it already!

To the OP- yes, it is difficult around here sometimes. You aren’t wrong; don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. There’s a lot of exaggeration and fear mongering that goes on.
 
I enjoy it also. And I am by no means trying to kill the EF of the Mass. I believe that both can exist side by side.
 
As a convert, I prefer the NO. Mainly because I can better understand what is going on. Even with it in the vernacular, for those not familiar with the Mass it takes awhile to understand it fully.

I do like the TLM, it is beautiful. But I think both can exist.

The only thing I don’t like about some Masses I have been to are the abuses. I’ve seen a good many of them, but any Mass can be abused…NO or TLM. The NO can be said just as reverently as the TLM.

I hope you enjoy the boards here. There’s a good bit of debating, but I’ve also found it a great place to learn more about my faith.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
How is the OP pushing anyone’s buttons?
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Well, about the only hot topic that he didn’t mention is enjoying screaming kids at Mass. Personally, I was looking forward to the responses and have been pleasantly suprised at the tone of the replies.🙂
 
jpjd said:
Every board has a “culture” and it is the culture of this board to favor the Tridentine Latin Mass and to find abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass.
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I truly doubt that characterization. Those who strongly prefer the Tridentine Mass spend their time in the Traditional Catholicism forum.

And as for finding abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass, only the willfully blind would deny their abundance. As Pope Benedict XVI writes, “in many places celebrations were not faithful to the prescriptions of the new Missal, but the latter actually was understood as authorizing or even requiring creativity, which frequently led to deformations of the liturgy which were hard to bear. I am speaking from experience, since I too lived through that period with all its hopes and its confusion. And I have seen how arbitrary deformations of the liturgy caused deep pain to individuals totally rooted in the faith of the Church.”

One can recognize the validity of, and even prefer, the NO Mass, but one cannot in good conscience deny what the Pope himself recognizes as the abuses which have plagued it in so many parishes.
 
I enjoy both. But there are differences and I celebrate those differences. I attend daily TLM and still go to my Church Saturday evening for the NO. They both fill a special place in my heart and soul.

:heart:Blyss
 
I’m with the OP. I greatly prefer the NO. I doubt I would have ever become Catholic if the only experience I had was TLM. I think it’s weird and spooky. Sorry to all who consider it reverent and meaningful. I can’t help the way I feel.

I don’t like hearing a foreign language because it means nothing to me, even with a translation. I live in the U.S. and I like the English language.

And I happen to like more contemporary hymns with beautiful flowing melodies, and poetic words that deal with modern thought and issues. I dislike chant because it is amelodic and kind of wanders all over the place with no order. As for organ music, well, there are only about a dozen organists left in the world and I don’t know a single organ student in our whole city. (I’m a classical pianist who is very involved with our local music club, the oldest music club in the U.S.) So unless someone is keeping a clone room full of organists, once the organists are gone, I guess that will end the organ music for everyone.

Seriously, I really prefer the NO. I would attend TLM only if it was the only option, and even then, I would probably be willing to drive a long distance to attend NO.

However, I do support the establishment of TLM in every community. I think it should be available to all Catholics. And I think the Catholic Church should strive to keep up the traditions of the church, including ancient liturgy, prayers, and music. It is part of our history.
 
Please, please, please do not feel out of place in the forums or anywhere else 🙂 Enjoy your time before Christ. Don’t let anyone, especially in this place; try to steal your joy.
ddd86 said:
I’ve been crawling about these forums for a few months and eventually signed up a little while ago. One thing I’ve noticed whilst browsing the forums is a constant “bashing” of the Novus Ordo Mass.

Now, i’ll set the scene … I’m 21 years old so of course I wasn’t around before Vatican II. I have experienced the Trinidine Mass a number of times and on all occasions I felt I prefer the Novus Ordo Mass.

I enjoy my modern Catholic Church. I feel spiritually fulfilled whilst praying before our Blessed Lord present in the tabernacle. I enjoy the folk Mass every other Saturday evening Vigil, I like the Modern Gothic Chasuble and I don’t mind receiving our Blessed Lord from a EMHC.

I feel like i’m out of place within these forums. Do you believe I am wrong to feel this way in regard to the Mass? Should I not feel a love for the Lord whilst participating in the “Modern” Mass? Please Advise

God Bless.
Click to expand...
 
kleary said:
No- not wrong…just uneducated.

Read the small books published by Michael Davies and you will come around and do your best to support the EF of the Mass that many want to see destroyed and forgotten.

I will just give one example-

In the Novus Ordo the people and the priest pray the Confiteor together.

Previously, the priest prayed the confiteor first and then the deacon and subdeacon or server/MC would pray it on behalf of the people. In Dialogue Mass the people would pray the confiteor seperately from the priest also.

The first to do away with the seperate Confiteor’s and instutute a common one that the celebrant and people would recite together were the Protestants. They did this because they knew the Catholics had the confiteor done seperately by the priest and then the people to show the difference between the priest and the people. Then the Novus ordo comes along and does the same thing the Protestants did- common confiteor.

Second is the removal of the offertory prayers. The first to remove the Offertory Prayers was Martin Luther because of their Sacrificial aspects. The NO follows this same pattern with removing the offertory prayers.

We can go on about other things such as communion in the hand (protestants re-introduced the practice to show disbelief in the real presence and Catholic priesthood), Mass facing the people on a table instead of priest and people facing the same direction on an altar of sacrifice (protestants made their celebrants face the people and on a table instead of altar).

I attend the OF Mass only when I cannot get to the EF. I abhore it. My wife always tells me not to complain about “The Captain and Tennile” up there with their guitars, priest not wearing proper vestments, using wine glass instead of chalice- holding hands with the altar girl, clown masses, pizza consecration masses, halloween masses where priest dresses as Satan…I can go on and on.

Ken
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These kinds of responses are not helpful. The Church is the only institution with authority over the liturgy. The NO is the “Ordinary Form” and a celebration of the OF that is faithful to the Missal is no less valid, less Catholic, or more Protestant than the EF. The Church, for pastoral reasons, has very properly allowed more widespread use of the EF, but to imply that those who like the OF are somehow not good Catholics for that reason, or at least not as good as the truly “educated” Catholics who prefer the EF, is divisive and not in harmony with the teaching of the Church.

Abuses are horrible, and much too widespread, but the Ordinary Form is the Mass just as much as the Extraordinary Form!
 
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