I feel bad for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses

[jas84173]

I believe both groups are filled with great people. I personally have met and know people who adhere to both beliefs. They are strong in their beliefs, and somehow any criticism of their beliefs doesn’t seem to mean a thing to them. These two groups do believe they are the “true Christians”. Ironically people debate whether they are Christian but that is not what this is about.

My question is, the Mormons and JW’s are constantly trying to recruit new members. I myself “studied” with both, just to see what it is like for a person who may not have strong faith in say their Catholic upbringings. What I notice is they only give you the tip of the ice berg in regards to their beliefs. I feel as though, questioning these groups as to their beliefs, in a scholarly way is of no use, it is as though they are brainwashed. Say with Mormons, you can argue why the BOM is a false book all you want, but they will just reply “We know it is true”. How can you just know something is true? Anyone who researches the foundings of both of these movements will see America was ripe for self proclaimed “prophets” and religious leaders to take root at the time of their foundings. It is called the second great awakening. I am not going to give my points on how I have argued against their beliefs, because this is a Catholic forum, I hope most people will know what is wrong with these groups. I worry however how they go around, in their hearts thinking they are doing good, but thriving on people who do not have a strong faith to begin with, giving them this sense of “false salvation”. I wish there was a way to open these peoples eyes to the truth of why their “sect” is false and is undermining Christ, while at the same time preaching they are the true followers of Christ. Isn’t anyone else tired of seeing this?

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Yes, it is always lamentable to see Catholics taken away by these Protestant groups. It’s strange to me that they choose to follow a religion that was formed just a few centuries ago with never-before-heard-of beliefs when Christ was here 2,000 years ago.

 

[lax16]

Yes, it is always lamentable to see Catholics taken away by these Protestant groups. It’s strange to me that they choose to follow a religion that was formed just a few centuries ago with never-before-heard-of beliefs when Christ was here 2,000 years ago.

Actually, neither the Mormons or the JW’s are Protestant.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Actually, neither the Mormons or the JW’s are Protestant.

Oh yes, I forgot that the Mormons aren’t even Christian. But the Jehovah’s not being Christian either is new to me.

 

[Stevenrushing]

The reason you only get the tip of the iceberg studying with Mormons is that the vast majority of Mormons only KNOW the tip of the iceberg. 99% of practical Mormonism is very generic “love god, love others, family family family”. That is honestly all that the vast majority of Mormons know. The higher-ups want to keep it that way, because there is just so much crazy in the past. But for now? I honestly think there are a whole lot of them that are invincibly ignorant. I believe in a just God, and most of them are just good people, who are doing the best they can with what they have. They are wrong, so very very wrong, but they aren’t evil.

 

[Antegin]

I don’t feel any worse for Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses than any protestant, Jew, other faith or atheists. Pray for the conversion of all.

I have known evil in all these groups and I have known great goodness. Only God knows how He will judge each in the end

 

[lax16]

The reason you only get the tip of the iceberg studying with Mormons is that the vast majority of Mormons only KNOW the tip of the iceberg. 99% of practical Mormonism is very generic “love god, love others, family family family”. That is honestly all that the vast majority of Mormons know. The higher-ups want to keep it that way, because there is just so much crazy in the past. But for now? I honestly think there are a whole lot of them that are invincibly ignorant. I believe in a just God, and most of them are just good people, who are doing the best they can with what they have. They are wrong, so very very wrong, but they aren’t evil.

Recently my son was having a discussion with some Mormon missionaries. He was asking them some pretty deep theological questions and one of the missionaries kept saying “I know that you will be baptized within two weeks!”

He said they referred him to someone in charge of their mission and never answered his questions.

How can somebody know enough to be baptized within two weeks? They couldn’t even answer his questions.

 

[boomerang]

I have read that JW’s have the lowest retention rate of any “christian” religion. That speaks volumes. With the internet, both of these groups are learning the truth about their origins. Their church elders can’t keep this stuff hidden anymore.

 

[meltzerboy]

This would be how Jews and Pagans and Buddhists, etc, would have felt about Christianity when it was new.

.

And Hindus, who form the world’s oldest religion.

 

[eamonnroma]

As far as I know now the Mormon missionaries are supposed to try to get people to agree to be / or consider being baptised within two weeks of meeting them.

I can confirm that they know little of the intricacies of their faith. They know just the polished version needed to convert people.

 

[Dorothy]

Oh yes, I forgot that the Mormons aren’t even Christian. But the Jehovah’s not being Christian either is new to me.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses are not considered Christian because they too do not believe in the divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[jediliz]

The Jehovah’s Witnesses are not considered Christian because they too do not believe in the divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

They are a cult…i had one for a babysitter when I was six…a few years ago, she tried twice to friend me on Facebook…I rejected her and blocked her. They don’t believe in standing for any patriotic songs. They keep predicting the second coming (last time was 1914?) and they think celebrating birthdays is evil because in two biblical passages, bad things happened at a birthday celebration (one was John the Baptist beheading). They go back and forth about Christmas,too. I think they celebrated it 100+ years ago, but now they don’t. If they are in the area, I lock my outside screen type door and don’t answer. I tear up the watchtower if one manages to get in somehow.

 

[Billy112]

The reason you only get the tip of the iceberg studying with Mormons is that the vast majority of Mormons only KNOW the tip of the iceberg. 99% of practical Mormonism is very generic “love god, love others, family family family”. That is honestly all that the vast majority of Mormons know. The higher-ups want to keep it that way, because there is just so much crazy in the past. But for now? I honestly think there are a whole lot of them that are invincibly ignorant. I believe in a just God, and most of them are just good people, who are doing the best they can with what they have. They are wrong, so very very wrong, but they aren’t evil.

They’d have to be, especially if they were raised in it.

 

[Billy112]

Are there any common tactics for Mormons and Jehova’s Witnesses? I’ve never spoken to any on an evangelizing level and I’ve just realized I’m not at all prepared if I ever do end up running into them. I don’t think things like this can really be argued with, but I do not want to play into the “scared Catholic” trope that I’m sure they’ve been told about and further harden their extremely misguided beliefs.

 

[pianistclare]

I have read that JW’s have the lowest retention rate of any “christian” religion. That speaks volumes. With the internet, both of these groups are learning the truth about their origins. Their church elders can’t keep this stuff hidden anymore.

Bingo.

 

[jas84173]

In a scholarly way, both groups are considered Christian because they do follow the “teachings of Christ” even though it is almost heretical to us. They are also non trinitarian but I am not sure that means you aren’t Christian. I mean before Clovis’ conversion to Catholicism in Gaul in I believe the sixth century, there were really two forms of Christianity that were accepted, the Catholic trinitarian version, and then Aryan Christianity which also denied the trinity yet believed Christ was the son of God. See Jews disregard Jesus all altogether, claim he was a false messiah, thus they are not Christian. Muslims believe Jesus was a very (name removed by moderator)ortant prophet and the messiah but hold him to a level of Moses and Muhammad, thus they are not Christian. Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses do accept Christ as the son of God and believe in the holy spirit just in a non trinitarian view. They also both are offshoots of Protestantism. Thus I would argue we are not to say they are not Christian. They are just misguided.

 

[jane_doe]

I have read that JW’s have the lowest retention rate of any “christian” religion. That speaks volumes. With the internet, both of these groups are learning the truth about their origins. Their church elders can’t keep this stuff hidden anymore.

According to pew research center:

60% of Mormon children stay
44% of cradle-Catholics stay Catholic.
41% of Protestants stay in their specific Protestant faith
30% of JW children stay

 

[Memaw]

And Hindus, who form the world’s oldest religion.

Jesus Christ changed all that and gave us HIS TRUTHS to live by. all others should conform to HIS Will and not ours. God Bless, Memaw

 

[zaffiroborant]

According to pew research center:

60% of Mormon children stay
44% of cradle-Catholics stay Catholic.
41% of Protestants stay in their specific Protestant faith
30% of JW children stay

Is there anything from Pew on convert retention?

 

[SteveVH]

In a scholarly way, both groups are considered Christian because they do follow the “teachings of Christ” even though it is almost heretical to us.

No, “in a scholarly way” they are not considered Christian at all. In fact, the Catholic Church has officially declared that the LDS doctrines are so foreign to Christianity that it must be considered a different religion altogether. For this reason the Church does not accept Mormon Baptism - because it is not Christian.

As for the JW’s, they do not believe in the divinity of Christ, which is a pretty minimal requirement for being a Christian.

They are also non trinitarian but I am not sure that means you aren’t Christian. I mean before Clovis’ conversion to Catholicism in Gaul in I believe the sixth century, there were really two forms of Christianity that were accepted

No, there were never two forms of Christianity that were accepted. Arianism was a heresy and even though a majority of bishops, for a time, were swayed by it, it was never “accepted” by the magisterium of the Catholic Church as true doctrine.

Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses do accept Christ as the son of God

Both Mormon’s and JW’s believe that Christ is a creature, rather than an eternal divine being (God). That is not Christian belief. The Holy Spirit is viewed in a completely different way as well. Sorry, but one cannot be Christian and reject the Trinity anymore than one can be Buddhist and reject “The Five Precepts”.

At some point, one’s beliefs matter insofar as what one can claim to be. I cannot very well claim to be a Muslim while rejecting Muhammad as “the prophet”. I cannot very well claim to be a Christian while rejecting Christ as God incarnate; the third Person of the Trinity.

Peace.

Steve