I feel closer to Mary than Jesus, is the wrong?

[FormerXCatholic]

(I asked this same question to an apologist, but just in case I don’t receive an answer I wanted to see what the others catholics on here have to say, so thanks for reading)

I was raised Catholic, went secular in high school, then rediscovered Christ and went on a Protestant path. But now, I find myself in awe of the Catholic faith.

This awe has mainly been the product of my fascination with the Mother Mary and the story of Juan Diego. Even though I had seen the picture of the Juan’s cloak a thousand times before, it wasn’t until recently that I observed the image more objectively and discovered her beauty and the elements of the universes around her such as the sun rays, stars, moon, the primary colors on the angels wings.
I realize some believe the angels wings are red, white and blue, but if you look at the Lady’s wrists and neck, that color is truly white and the angels wings appear to be red, light yellow, and blue, which are the colors God created to be the building blocks of all color. And doesn’t that align better with the message of Mary and the universe on Juan’s cloak? Anyways, the image made me remember a time when (the story gets strange here) I experimented with a chemical called DMT, the main ingredient in ayahuasca, which is a drink brewed by many indigenous tribes in history that induces vast and vivid colorful visions and geometric patterns, in addition to spiritual encounters. Many say that a “rainbow serpent” is seen under it’s influence. Yet, when I tried this naturally occurring chemical I saw a women centered in my vision with radiant light and colors beaming of of her. She was communicating with me non verbally, she raised her right pointer finger at me all while the most beautiful colors and light spiraled out from her. I have to admit that the experience was very beautiful, and I felt a sense of love from this women. What she was trying to tell me I do not know.

Anyways, the experience lasted maybe 5 minutes and I never even considered the women to be my Mother Mary, that is, until I saw Juan Diegos cloak. The vision I saw resembled the image of Mary on the cloak. The radiant light, the colors, etc. Then I pondered about the serpent on Mary’s feet that so many statues have and the Churches teaching that she is the crusher of the serpent. Do you guys see the connection? The indigenous tribal drink ayahuasca. The rainbow serpent? Visions of Mary? No wonder the Mexican Indians were so captivated by this image, they must have made some mystical connection to Mary the same way I did.

Ok so here’s my question, and I would LOVE an in depth conversation on what I just revealed to you in addition to an answer. And please, do some research on DMT and ayahuasca if you are unaware of this powerful chemical that occurs naturally in all living organisms ( really ). Here it goes, now that I have made this connection I have been reading a lot about Mary. I now all of the sudden have this deep intimate feeling for her. I feel her presence and her love and it has brought me to tears of joy. What I feel guilty about is that I haven’t really felt this way about Jesus. Even though I love and trust him, his presence in my life isn’t as intimate. He feels more like a brother whom I love and look up to, but have quarrels with from time to time. Then there’s God, I fear him like a father and only want to make him proud of me. I feel more intimate with God than I do Jesus, yet Jesus is God, ugh I’m confused.

Is it because Mary is a mother that I tend to have a “momma’s boy” affection for her? I want to have affectionate relationships with Christ and God, but right now they don’t seem as intense and awe inspiring like Mary has been to me. I have had tear jerking moments with Christ but they are different. I’m beginning to think that there’s nothing wrong its just that Jesus and God are masculine figures and since I am a male I want to be with my mamma. Is this normal? What are your thoughts?

 

[JRKH]

Obviously - after reading the OP, the question is quite a bit more complicated than the title question would indicate.
While in simplest terms, I would say that it is not wrong to feel closer to our Lady than to Jesus…so long as things are kept in proper perspective…I would say that we should not be satisfied with this. Rather we should ask Our Lady to bring us ever closer to her son so that we become more intimate with Him who is our Salvation.

That said - I would strongly urge you to talk to a priest about your experience and where you are spiritually right now. He will be able to go into greater detail with you and hopefully, over time, help you to grow even more in your Love of God and Christ our King.

Peace
James

 

[wheels10]

(I asked this same question to an apologist, but just in case I don’t receive an answer I wanted to see what the others catholics on here have to say, so thanks for reading)

I was raised Catholic, went secular in high school, then rediscovered Christ and went on a Protestant path. But now, I find myself in awe of the Catholic faith.

This awe has mainly been the product of my fascination with the Mother Mary and the story of Juan Diego. Even though I had seen the picture of the Juan’s cloak a thousand times before, it wasn’t until recently that I observed the image more objectively and discovered her beauty and the elements of the universes around her such as the sun rays, stars, moon, the primary colors on the angels wings.
I realize some believe the angels wings are red, white and blue, but if you look at the Lady’s wrists and neck, that color is truly white and the angels wings appear to be red, light yellow, and blue, which are the colors God created to be the building blocks of all color. And doesn’t that align better with the message of Mary and the universe on Juan’s cloak? Anyways, the image made me remember a time when (the story gets strange here) I experimented with a chemical called DMT, the main ingredient in ayahuasca, which is a drink brewed by many indigenous tribes in history that induces vast and vivid colorful visions and geometric patterns, in addition to spiritual encounters. Many say that a “rainbow serpent” is seen under it’s influence. Yet, when I tried this naturally occurring chemical I saw a women centered in my vision with radiant light and colors beaming of of her. She was communicating with me non verbally, she raised her right pointer finger at me all while the most beautiful colors and light spiraled out from her. I have to admit that the experience was very beautiful, and I felt a sense of love from this women. What she was trying to tell me I do not know.

Anyways, the experience lasted maybe 5 minutes and I never even considered the women to be my Mother Mary, that is, until I saw Juan Diegos cloak. The vision I saw resembled the image of Mary on the cloak. The radiant light, the colors, etc. Then I pondered about the serpent on Mary’s feet that so many statues have and the Churches teaching that she is the crusher of the serpent. Do you guys see the connection? The indigenous tribal drink ayahuasca. The rainbow serpent? Visions of Mary? No wonder the Mexican Indians were so captivated by this image, they must have made some mystical connection to Mary the same way I did.

Ok so here’s my question, and I would LOVE an in depth conversation on what I just revealed to you in addition to an answer. And please, do some research on DMT and ayahuasca if you are unaware of this powerful chemical that occurs naturally in all living organisms ( really ). Here it goes, now that I have made this connection I have been reading a lot about Mary. I now all of the sudden have this deep intimate feeling for her. I feel her presence and her love and it has brought me to tears of joy. What I feel guilty about is that I haven’t really felt this way about Jesus. Even though I love and trust him, his presence in my life isn’t as intimate. He feels more like a brother whom I love and look up to, but have quarrels with from time to time. Then there’s God, I fear him like a father and only want to make him proud of me. I feel more intimate with God than I do Jesus, yet Jesus is God, ugh I’m confused.

Is it because Mary is a mother that I tend to have a “momma’s boy” affection for her? I want to have affectionate relationships with Christ and God, but right now they don’t seem as intense and awe inspiring like Mary has been to me. I have had tear jerking moments with Christ but they are different. I’m beginning to think that there’s nothing wrong its just that Jesus and God are masculine figures and since I am a male I want to be with my mamma. Is this normal? What are your thoughts?

We go to God through the Blessed Mother of God because God came to us through Her and through Mary we can Love God perfectly.

Mary is our path to God.

 

[Lasting_faith]

We worship God, we love Our Blessed Virgin. That is the only right way to do it.

If you feel closer to Virgin Mary then God you do so. Nothing can change that and it is not wrong as long as you know the right order, love Virgin Mary, worship God.

PS: And thank you for the question, I did just understand a very important thing, thank you and God bless.

 

[FormerXCatholic]

These are great answers, and I do want to speak to a priest soon from my old school St Charles Borromeo of Tacoma, Wa. I really do love Mary and worship God, that’s a perfect way to describe it. I just wonder what God thinks about my attention to her. My biological mother is an anti-Mary Protestant and my dads side is Catholic, so this confusion arose naturally after that experience. I’m now at the point in my life that I wish to continue with receiving the sacraments.

PS: And thank you for the question, I did just understand a very important thing, thank you and God bless.

What important thing did you just understand? please share!

 

[Lasting_faith]

These are great answers, and I do want to speak to a priest soon from my old school St Charles Borromeo of Tacoma, Wa. I really do love Mary and worship God, that’s a perfect way to describe it. I just wonder what God thinks about my attention to her. My biological mother is an anti-Mary Protestant and my dads side is Catholic, so this confusion arose naturally after that experience. I’m now at the point in my life that I wish to continue with receiving the sacraments.

What important thing did you just understand? please share!

In due time, in due time.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I have asked that of myself as a non believer, yet I attend Mass weekly and most often attend Mass during the week as well. Sure, I have hit points over the years where I took small breaks from attendance.
For the most part, I have stuck with it. Have a very good priest that I hope will continue to keep on going on.
How can anyone here know if what you feel is wrong if they know nothing else about you?
Only a priest could delve into what you are feeling and why. As long as you do not deny dogma I don’t think your feelings here would warrant anything more than some long winded replies about how you must feel another way than you do.
Did you notice no one asked you why you feel this way?

 

[yogosans14]

Yes, very. Mary is hardly mentioned in the Scriptures, while Jesus died for us and MARY. Please continue to grow your love for Christ, this is serious. You dont want to get close to idolatry.

 

[NaturalBorn]

You must be the opposite of me .

I have tried to understand the teachings behind praying to Mary or the Saints, but I don’t feel comfortable asking Mary or and people/Saints for spiritual guidance.

I don’t want to be a cafeteria catholic, but many times at mass I find it difficult to believe or utter the words “therefore I ask the Blessed Mary Virgin, Mother of God, etc”

The only prayer and worship that makes me comfortable and genuine is praying directly to God. As Jesus said, Love the Lord your God above all else with all your heart and strength. Loving Mary, a person of God’s creation, more than loving the creator our God, I do have to say I think that is not right.

Ultimately I see it as prayers to Mary or the Saints already have to go through the God & His Holy Spirit anyways, for them as souls in heaven to have the ability to hear and intercede for billions of individuals simultaneously at once, which is almost like being a God in my opinion, is a bit over the top no? Besides, whether or not praying to saints matters it all depends on God’s Will which is already all-powerful and surely God can help me just as strongly with or without the prayers his people, whom aren’t all-knowing, only God is. The only one that knows all and deserves all our worship and praise is God alone.

I think, in my opinion, if Mary could speak to you, she would say to Love her Son and the Lord our God more than anything, for he is the one who has given us all life, including Mary.

Also you’re last point about God the Father and Jesus being a man as being highly masculine and you have a feeling the need for a spiritual mother. That sounds perfectly fine, but as some of the above posters said I would say be careful your not worshiping her or giving her thanks for things where rightfully due credit belongs to God. All praise, credit, and thanks belongs only to God. I also don’t see Jesus as entirely that masculine compared to human males, sure in his human nature he was a man, but the affection, compassion, and care he showed especially toward children is a more naturally feminine characteristic, and along with his complete lack of any violence, well we all know human males typically are more aggressive and resolve with violence. That’s my 2 cents.

At the end of the day it’s between you and God. I’m no judge, but I think warning of idolatry is important. I hope you find the truth and peace you’re looking for. God willing may he lead you in the right direction. Peace be upon you.

 

[yogosans14]

You must be the opposite of me .

I have tried to understand the teachings behind praying to Mary or the Saints, but I don’t feel comfortable asking Mary or and people/Saints for spiritual guidance.

I don’t want to be a cafeteria catholic, but many times at mass I find it difficult to believe or utter the words “therefore I ask the Blessed Mary Virgin, Mother of God, etc”

The only prayer and worship that makes me comfortable and genuine is praying directly to God. As Jesus said, Love the Lord your God above all else with all your heart and strength. Loving Mary, a person of God’s creation, more than loving the creator our God, I do have to say I think that is not right.

Ultimately I see it as prayers to Mary or the Saints already have to go through the God & His Holy Spirit anyways, for them as souls in heaven to have the ability to hear and intercede for billions of individuals simultaneously at once, which is almost like being a God in my opinion, is a bit over the top no? Besides, whether or not praying to saints matters it all depends on God’s Will which is already all-powerful and surely God can help me just as strongly with or without the prayers his people, whom aren’t all-knowing, only God is. The only one that knows all and deserves all our worship and praise is God alone.

I think, in my opinion, if Mary could speak to you, she would say to Love her Son and the Lord our God more than anything, for he is the one who has given us all life, including Mary.

Also you’re last point about God the Father and Jesus being a man as being highly masculine and you have a feeling the need for a spiritual mother. That sounds perfectly fine, but as some of the above posters said I would say be careful your not worshiping her or giving her thanks for things where rightfully due credit belongs to God. All praise, credit, and thanks belongs only to God. I also don’t see Jesus as entirely that masculine compared to human males, sure in his human nature he was a man, but the affection, compassion, and care he showed especially toward children is a more naturally feminine characteristic, and along with his complete lack of any violence, well we all know human males typically are more aggressive and resolve with violence. That’s my 2 cents.

At the end of the day it’s between you and God. I’m no judge, but I think warning of idolatry is important. I hope you find the truth and peace you’re looking for. God willing may he lead you in the right direction. Peace be upon you.

Amen, good to see we have a reasonable catholic on here who isnt shouting “we have the true church” in everyones faces.

 

[Absolution]

I’ve never drank ayahuasca, but have spent quite a bit of time looking into the Peruvian shamanic tradition that incorporates this “vine of souls,” and into psychedelic spirituality in general. If you have been drawn to Mother Ayahuasca at some point during your spiritual journey, as it sounds you have been, then I’m not surprised that with respect to Catholic spirituality, it is Mother Mary to whom you feel the closest, and that your experience with Mary has parallels to your experience with ayahuasca. The Ground of all Being has many channels of communication open to those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[JRKH]

You must be the opposite of me .

I have tried to understand the teachings behind praying to Mary or the Saints, but I don’t feel comfortable asking Mary or and people/Saints for spiritual guidance.

I don’t want to be a cafeteria catholic, but many times at mass I find it difficult to believe or utter the words “therefore I ask the Blessed Mary Virgin, Mother of God, etc”

I must confess to a similar disposition, though not to the point of feeling uncomfortable with the prayers of the mass.
I’ve just never been a person who asks others for prayers very often - though I have done so - and I prefer to pray as Jesus taught us to do - directly to the Father. This is also in line with the last recorded words of Our Lady in Scripture, “Do whatever He tells you.”

That said - perhaps this might settle you discomfort some.
As Catholics we hold to the communion of the saints. These saints in heaven pray for us and indeed all who are journeying. When we ask for intercession as part of the mass, we are doing so in union with the entire body of Christ - the Church militant. So such a request is not necessarily an “individual” request but rather a group request. A single prayer for the Single Church as a whole. After all, I suspect you would not mind praying for the intentions of your fellow Catholics.

The only prayer and worship that makes me comfortable and genuine is praying directly to God. As Jesus said, Love the Lord your God above all else with all your heart and strength. Loving Mary, a person of God’s creation, more than loving the creator our God, I do have to say I think that is not right.

This is indeed true. To do so would certainly smack of Idolatry.
However - If I may - depending on where one is in their journey - I can see where one might feel a great affection for Mary, while feeling more fearful of the Father.
Proverbs says that “fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” - - but we all must remember that Love of God is the culmination.
Anyway - for many on the journey I think that they feel great affection for Our Lady because, to them, she is more accessible where the Father feels more aloof. The Father and the Church recognizes this and so for these people, through Mary many can be led to a better understanding and affection for Jesus and the Father.

Ultimately I see it as prayers to Mary or the Saints already have to go through the God & His Holy Spirit anyways, for them as souls in heaven to have the ability to hear and intercede for billions of individuals simultaneously at once, which is almost like being a God in my opinion, is a bit over the top no? Besides, whether or not praying to saints matters it all depends on God’s Will which is already all-powerful and surely God can help me just as strongly with or without the prayers his people, whom aren’t all-knowing, only God is. The only one that knows all and deserves all our worship and praise is God alone.

I think, in my opinion, if Mary could speak to you, she would say to Love her Son and the Lord our God more than anything, for he is the one who has given us all life, including Mary.

Also you’re last point about God the Father and Jesus being a man as being highly masculine and you have a feeling the need for a spiritual mother. That sounds perfectly fine, but as some of the above posters said I would say be careful your not worshiping her or giving her thanks for things where rightfully due credit belongs to God. All praise, credit, and thanks belongs only to God. I also don’t see Jesus as entirely that masculine compared to human males, sure in his human nature he was a man, but the affection, compassion, and care he showed especially toward children is a more naturally feminine characteristic, and along with his complete lack of any violence, well we all know human males typically are more aggressive and resolve with violence. That’s my 2 cents.

At the end of the day it’s between you and God. I’m no judge, but I think warning of idolatry is important. I hope you find the truth and peace you’re looking for. God willing may he lead you in the right direction. Peace be upon you.

Amen, good to see we have a reasonable catholic on here who isnt shouting “we have the true church” in everyones faces.

How does one “shout” with the written word??? hhhmmmmm… I’ve seen no “shouting” here.

Peace
James

 

[Denimguy]

The only prayer and worship that makes me comfortable and genuine is praying directly to God. As Jesus said, Love the Lord your God above all else with all your heart and strength. Loving Mary, a person of God’s creation, more than loving the creator our God, I do have to say I think that is not right.

Besides, whether or not praying to saints matters it all depends on God’s Will which is already all-powerful and surely God can help me just as strongly with or without the prayers his people, whom aren’t all-knowing, only God is. The only one that knows all and deserves all our worship and praise is God alone.

So you would not ask anyone to pray on your behalf?
The Church Millitant and the Church Triumphant can both pray to God on your behalf, remember that the Communion of Saints does not just include declared saints

You do realize that prayer and worship are 2 different actions. Worship is due God alone, prayer is not.

 

[yogosans14]

I must confess to a similar disposition, though not to the point of feeling uncomfortable with the prayers of the mass.
I’ve just never been a person who asks others for prayers very often - though I have done so - and I prefer to pray as Jesus taught us to do - directly to the Father. This is also in line with the last recorded words of Our Lady in Scripture, “Do whatever He tells you.”

That said - perhaps this might settle you discomfort some.
As Catholics we hold to the communion of the saints. These saints in heaven pray for us and indeed all who are journeying. When we ask for intercession as part of the mass, we are doing so in union with the entire body of Christ - the Church militant. So such a request is not necessarily an “individual” request but rather a group request. A single prayer for the Single Church as a whole. After all, I suspect you would not mind praying for the intentions of your fellow Catholics.

This is indeed true. To do so would certainly smack of Idolatry.
However - If I may - depending on where one is in their journey - I can see where one might feel a great affection for Mary, while feeling more fearful of the Father.
Proverbs says that “fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” - - but we all must remember that Love of God is the culmination.
Anyway - for many on the journey I think that they feel great affection for Our Lady because, to them, she is more accessible where the Father feels more aloof. The Father and the Church recognizes this and so for these people, through Mary many can be led to a better understanding and affection for Jesus and the Father.



How does one “shout” with the written word??? hhhmmmmm… I’ve seen no “shouting” here.

Peace
James

Go to the thread “To be in Heaven, you must be Catholic”…

 

[4most4christ]

I don’t want to be a cafeteria catholic, but many times at mass I find it difficult to believe or utter the words “therefore I ask the Blessed Mary Virgin, Mother of God, etc”

I apologixe if this leads down a rabbit hole, but would you please explain/define “cafeteria catholic”?

The only prayer and worship that makes me comfortable and genuine is praying directly to God. As Jesus said, Love the Lord your God above all else with all your heart and strength. Loving Mary, a person of God’s creation, more than loving the creator our God, I do have to say I think that is not right.

I wholeheartedly concur: Seek God first. Scripture states Jesus is the only mediator to the Father, with whom it’s key we all need to have a relationship. So if you have this then God is listening like the good Father He is, desiring to help His people. In the parlance “Queen Mum” as Mary, she is still a created person. When petitioning the King, you have direct access to Him through Christ your Savior. Point to God since you have His Son as your intercessor.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I would say it is not spiritually healthy to be closer to Mary than to Jesus. Mary is a gift to us but it is never wise to love the gift more than the Giver.

I guess the part about your post that most set off my alarm is that you find Mary more awe inspiring than God. To me, that is distorted thinking. I’m sorry if that sounds unkind, but I have to be honest. Everything that is excellent about Mary comes from God. She is indeed awesome, because she was obedient to the gifts and call of God. But God is infinitely more awesome than all of His creatures. Jesus “emptied Himself” in order to reach out to humanity. Just thinking about His Incarnation blows my mind. That God would confine Himself to time is awesome, but to think that He was willing to suffer and die for everyone (even those who would not accept Him) goes beyond awesome.

The Scriptures tell us where our focus should be. We should keep our eyes “fixed on Jesus”. Jesus is the Way, and the the Truth, and the Life. That is not to say there is not room in our hearts to love her and honor Mary, but even those who have the highest devotion to Mary have to keep their eyes on Jesus. St. Louis de Montfort is famous for his works on Marian devotion. However, with all of his admiration and love for Mary he still said "With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, “I am He who is”. Even the Rosary, which is considered a “Marian” prayer is essentially all about meditating on the mysteries of Christ Jesus.

Many people feel that they can approach Mary more easily in their prayer life, but the Scriptures encourage us to “confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.” We ought to take God on His word, right? This is not to say that I don’t believe that intercessory prayer has its place. We are supposed to pray for each other (Jas 5:16) and I believe that the Saints in heaven do hear us and present our prayers to God (cf Tobit 12:12). However, in no way should our intercessors take our eyes of Jesus.

I kindly suggest that you spend some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament in prayer and read the Scriptures-- especially the Gospels. This may help you to find the right perspective on Jesus and the Blessed Mother. Also, you may want to read some material to help you further understand the Eucharist through which we enter into communion with God. The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn and Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Brant Pitre are excellent. Speaking from personal experience, learning more about the gift of the Eucharist and learning the Scriptures have been a powerful means for me to grow closer to Jesus, our Savior.

 

[JRKH]

I apologixe if this leads down a rabbit hole, but would you please explain/define “cafeteria catholic”?

“cafeteria catholic” is a term some apply to those people who claim to be Catholics but who pick and choose which church teachings they will adhere to and which they will ignore or even outright reject…Like a person going through a cafeteria line picking and choosing what they want to eat.

Peace
James

 

[ChristCrucified]

We go to God through the Blessed Mother of God because God came to us through Her and through Mary we can Love God perfectly.

Mary is our path to God.

**
Blasphemy.**
**
John 14:6**
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - Jesus Christ, God in human flesh.

 

[JRKH]

We go to God through the Blessed Mother of God because God came to us through Her and through Mary we can Love God perfectly.

Mary is our path to God.

**
Blasphemy.**
**
John 14:6**
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - Jesus Christ, God in human flesh.

 

[JRKH]

I agree that if one looks at “wheels10"s” statement as expressed, and in isolation, it does indeed smack of blasphemy. This is why such statements should be avoided unless and until one has a proper understanding of the principles that underlie it.

Even when one DOES understand these principles, the statement as made would be inaccurate (as I understand it). As I understand the principle is that devotion to Mary helps to lead one to Jesus. Not that one cannot approach Jesus directly certainly this is possible…but that Mary can help one better understand Him. Thus - in this understanding and perspective - Marion devotion is seen as a good.

However - when improperly understood and/or communicated and/or applied it runs the risk of falling into idolatry.

Just some thoughts

Peace
James