I feel doubtful about some of the church teachings on sex between a married man and woman... Help?

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I have been in RCIA for over half a year now. I have enjoyed myself and have felt ecstatic about the Catholic faith until just recently when I did research and found out a specific church teaching.

It is the teaching on sexual relations between husband and wife, the teaching that there are certain “kinds” of sex that you can and can’t have. I have seen several threads concerning things such as oral sex…

To cut right to the chase, and to be brutally honest, I feel like what happens consensually in the bedroom between a husband and a wife should stay within the bedroom between the husband and wife. To think that the church will be involved in those kinds of things and say what I can and can’t do makes me feel uncomfortable.

This is very upsetting for me, because I have felt very good and even passionate about the new things I’ve learned in RCIA. I’ve felt very strongly that I’ve been on the right path up until this. And I think that the liberal movements among a lot of other churches is extremely disappointing. I don’t want to go to a church with really watered down beliefs… that is the reason I originally looked into the Catholic faith.

I do not want to stick with the church and be considered a “Cafeteria Catholic”… because I think this label would be extremely saddening to have. I also don’t want to feel like I’m committing mortal sins and not be able to receive Eucharist because of it.

I have read that “Cafeteria Catholics” should leave the church, because they aren’t really Catholics at all when they don’t adhere to every teaching. Should I quit RCIA because I don’t agree with this one teaching?

Maybe it would make me feel better if I actually knew where this teaching originated…

I don’t know. All I know is I am not posting this to offend anyone. I am just in a panicked state, and any advice/help I can get would be great. Thank you all.
 
mcjackson said:
It is the teaching on sexual relations between husband and wife, the teaching that there are certain “kinds” of sex that you can and can’t have. I have seen several threads concerning things such as oral sex…

To cut right to the chase, and to be brutally honest, I feel like what happens consensually in the bedroom between a husband and a wife should stay within the bedroom between the husband and wife. To think that the church will be involved in those kinds of things and say what I can and can’t do makes me feel uncomfortable.

This is very upsetting for me…
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Obviously not everything we do can be considered acceptable - even if it is in a bedroom between a husband and wife.

What issues are troubling to you?
 
very respectful post.

You mention that you don’t want a watered down faith…and good for u!

God needs to penetrate ALL aspects of your life. When you come to the church…u give a total gift of yourself to God or don’t come at all (cafeteria).

You’re saying you are willing to consent and conscede to this and that…but to the marital bed you are going to withhold? Not good.

To be a REAL catholic…a real Christian = a radical change in life because you are giving EVERYTHING over to God and God becomes the center of EVERYTHING.

The marital embrace is extrememly important. It’s not something that can be cut out of this deal. It’s the place where love is nourished, where you participate in the creative act with God! and where you get to enter a piece of heaven and where the ultimate symbol of marriage is realized…it’s a sign of the very personhood of God (lifegiving, and in the highest communion of persons…your bodies are literally becoming one!).

I suspect that you don’t understand the teaching. I HIGHLY, HIGHLY suggest you look into “theology of the body”. In particular a cd/dvd called : “woman, Gods masterpiece”. This teaching will change your life and your view on what the church is proposing to you (the church has the fullness of the revelation of God and simply proposes and guides you into understand which will lead you into happiness and a deeper communion with all and with God)…but you have to trust and be willing to look deeper.

Just a quick point on oral sex: Just so you know…the church teaches oral sex is perfectly fine so long as your intent is to bring you both closer. The church only teaches that the act can not finish there because it must always be directed towards being lifegiving (procreative). To understand why…look at theology of the body.

God bless you on your journey.
 
First, remember that the teachings are designed with respect and honor for men and women and the dignity of their relationship with each other.

Then go and investigate that, honestly looking for how honor is shown by wife to husband and husband to wife, bravely examining it in the light of faith. I hate it when other people say this, but I’m going to here (sorry! :o). Don’t rely exclusively on this forum to get a good understanding of the Church teaching on the meaning of the relationship between men and women. The medium is too coarse for that, I think, unless you are particularly good at sifting.

A good primary source is JP2 teaching on theology of the body, but that series of audiences is hard to digest. Anyway, if you desire, it is here. I was inspired in a positive way by it, much more so than reading any of the compilations or commentaries. You don’t need to read the whole thing. You get a feel for it with much less than half of them. Start at the start and don’t skip, though.

Always be patient with yourself as you work through difficult teachings. We each have ones that we find hard. Trust God, and look until you find the answers you need. 🙂 It may take longer than you want it to, or it may happen quickly, but work through what you need without panic. God is watching over your journey, don’t fear!
 
mcjackson said:
It is the teaching on sexual relations between husband and wife, the teaching that there are certain “kinds” of sex that you can and can’t have.
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What specific teaching is that? Can you link to it in the Catechism or other Church documents.
mcjackson said:
I have seen several threads concerning things such as oral sex…
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Threads on CAF are not the best place to get Church teaching. There are many people who post many things, not always Church teaching.
mcjackson said:
To cut right to the chase, and to be brutally honest, I feel like what happens consensually in the bedroom between a husband and a wife should stay within the bedroom between the husband and wife.
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To be brutally honest, God is in the bedroom with you. Is he not?
mcjackson said:
To think that the church will be involved in those kinds of things and say what I can and can’t do makes me feel uncomfortable.
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How exactly is the Church “involved” in “those kinds of things”?

The Church merely teaches the Truth. The Truth comes from God. The truth is that God created us and God is the author of our sexuality. He created it for good. When we use it in a disordere way, we profane God’s gift of our sexuality.

Our sexuality is not our own. Everything we have and everything we are belongs to God.
mcjackson said:
I also don’t want to feel like I’m committing mortal sins and not be able to receive Eucharist because of it.
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What is and is not grave matter is not dependent on what we “feel”. Many people do not “feel” their abortion was wrong, yet it was. The hardest thing in walking a path of discipleship is giving over ALL of ourselves to God and saying, "whatever is true, that is what I want to do. I do not want to offend you, God.

So, the real issues seems to be you remain unconvinced that objective truth exists and that the Church teaches that Truth.
mcjackson said:
I have read that “Cafeteria Catholics” should leave the church, because they aren’t really Catholics at all when they don’t adhere to every teaching.
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Can you point to the Church document that says this? No. Because there isn’t one. Please be careful in internalizing “things” that “people” say or that you read somewhere. The internet is full of the exchange of ideas. Not all of them are authentic Catholic ideas.
mcjackson said:
Should I quit RCIA because I don’t agree with this one teaching?
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No. Keep seeking as long as you need to. Understanding comes over time.
mcjackson said:
Maybe it would make me feel better if I actually knew where this teaching originated…
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Maybe it would help if you told us what this teaching actually is. What teaching has you so concerned?
 
I think you misunderstand a couple things.

You can do whatever you want in the bedroom just as long as it ends in vaginal climax. (Oh and no contraception either)

Basically, you can do any type of foreplay you’d like… oral stimulation, manual stimulation, etc etc…

But you MUST ejaculate inside your wife.

And you can also do any position you’d like. 👍

Does this make things any clearer? Do you have any questions?
 
mcjackson said:
I have read that “Cafeteria Catholics” should leave the church, because they aren’t really Catholics at all when they don’t adhere to every teaching.
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Wow, whoever said this is a real prick. :mad:
 
I am not suggesting that God is not in the room with the husband and wife, so please do not condescendingly state that this is what I was suggesting.

No, I don’t have an “official church document” or a link to the part of the Catechism that says certain parts of what I posted It is not difficult for a person, or at least for me, to find a general consensus of what people are saying on a topic.

What I had understood before I posted this thread was basically what Debora123 said. That it must end in vaginal climax.

So let’s say that there are multiple orgasms during one “session” of sexual intercourse. As long as there is AN ejaculation inside the wife… or an ending ejaculation inside the wife, is it acceptable?

This sounds like such a graphic description… but I don’t know how else to describe it.
 
Among the many harmful effects of pornography and intentionally ruminating lustful thoughts, one of them is that a lot of modern guys, especially us younger ones, have cultivated a fetish towards climaxing a certain somewhere that we are not suppose to, which I’m guessing is what this thread is passively trying to get at.

The Church is an extension of God’s will, so if you feel uncomfortable with the Church teaching on extremely personal matters related to sexuality, than it is the same as feeling uncomfortable with God doing so. Sexuality is unitive and procreative. Contraception, gay sex, and climaxing outside of the wife are all a violation of this, and it is inconsistent in principle to condemn one of these things but not the other.
 
mcjackson said:
I am not suggesting that God is not in the room with the husband and wife, so please do not condescendingly state that this is what I was suggesting.

No, I don’t have an “official church document” or a link to the part of the Catechism that says certain parts of what I posted It is not difficult for a person, or at least for me, to find a general consensus of what people are saying on a topic.

What I had understood before I posted this thread was basically what Debora123 said. That it must end in vaginal climax.

So let’s say that there are multiple orgasms during one “session” of sexual intercourse. As long as there is AN ejaculation inside the wife… or an ending ejaculation inside the wife, is it acceptable?

This sounds like such a graphic description… but I don’t know how else to describe it.
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From what I understand, every ejaculation has to be inside of the vagina.
 
mcjackson said:
I am not suggesting that God is not in the room with the husband and wife, so please do not condescendingly state that this is what I was suggesting.

No, I don’t have an “official church document” or a link to the part of the Catechism that says certain parts of what I posted It is not difficult for a person, or at least for me, to find a general consensus of what people are saying on a topic.

What I had understood before I posted this thread was basically what Debora123 said. That it must end in vaginal climax.

So let’s say that there are multiple orgasms during one “session” of sexual intercourse. As long as there is AN ejaculation inside the wife… or an ending ejaculation inside the wife, is it acceptable?

This sounds like such a graphic description… but I don’t know how else to describe it.
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There’s no reason to be so defensive. There are alot of rumors that go around about supposed Church teachings and turn out to be not really Church teachings. Surely you’ve noticed that already, based on your experience in RCIA.

The official Church teaching is that sex has to be both unitive and procreative. The goal is for the man to ejaculate inside wife. That is the essential procreative aspect of sex. When people say that oral sex is forbidden, they aren’t speaking of foreplay that leads to a procreative sexual act, they are referring to an oral sex act that replaces the procreative sexual act. (Generally to avoid conception of a child)

The Church has the authority and responsibility to instruct the faithful in order to lead them to holiness and that includes the marriage bed. Sex is holy and has a holy purpose.
 
mcjackson said:
So let’s say that there are multiple orgasms during one “session” of sexual intercourse. As long as there is AN ejaculation inside the wife… or an ending ejaculation inside the wife, is it acceptable?
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Unfortunately no. 😦

Church teaching is that ALL male orgasm must be inside the wife.

(Though a wife can orgasm in any way)
 
So, the real issues seems to be you remain unconvinced that objective truth exists and that the Church teaches that Truth.
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Yes. I think that the issue is that I remain unconvinced that objective truth exists on the topic. If someone showed me a quote from Jesus or one of the original apostles saying something along the lines of “Yes, every time you ejaculate during sex with your wife, it must be inside her vagina”, then yeah, that seems like objective truth to me.
 
mcjackson said:
Yes. I think that the issue is that I remain unconvinced that objective truth exists on the topic. If someone showed me a quote from Jesus or one of the original apostles saying something along the lines of “Yes, every time you ejaculate during sex with your wife, it must be inside her vagina”, then yeah, that seems like objective truth to me.
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I suggest you speak about these matters with your priest. What he says may surprise you.

It’s a much better option than trying to discuss something so important with a group of anonymous strangers off the internet.

Guaranteed you will get some offensive comments too. 😦
 
In that same story… we are made in God’s** image and likeness**…

this is where we understand how the human person is to be both procreative and unitive.

This is the “stage” into which humanity and having sex first is established and defined.
 
Indeed, I understand that our job as a married couple is to have kids, and this is something I fully intend on doing. But you don’t have to ejaculate inside a woman’s vagina every single time you climax in order to have kids.
 
Do yourawld a very big favor: Go to any Catholic Rectory and make an appointment to talk with a priest. If possible, try to find a Jesuit or Dominican Parish or Institution, because these orders have the most experience in handling marital questions.
Make a printed copy of your questions here and bring it with you. I think you will be satisfied with your meeting. It is the only way you will get a difinative answer. With due respect to your teacher, unless your RCIA is being taught by a priest you are not going to get a thorough and complete answer to you question.
Basically,what you will find is that according to Catholic belief Sexual activity is for procreation alone, and one can do anything one wants in the bedroom as long as it is mutually agreeable and no contraception is used and the action ends with male ejaculation in the vagina.
 
No, our job is to bring God into the world and the way we life is of course necessary to do this. Each spouse is to express Gods love and life to eachother and the couple (together and individually) is to express Gods love and life to the world

Therefore , being open to the procreative act at all time during love is necessary.
 
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